This auction will be a true test of the value of PCGS plastic!
Comments
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@Catbert said:
Obviously, the coin is awful. I think the holder is as well despite its vaunted numismatic history. Never understood the attraction. I'd prefer a doily slab instead.I like Doily slabs also, but they are "common" compared to Regency slabs. As a matter of fact I'm not picky at all. I like Doily slabs, Regency slabs, PCGS Gen 1.0 & 1.1 (108 white label rattlers), and NGC 1.0, 2.1, & 2.0 slabs.
Philippians 4:4-7
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@UpGrayedd said:
@Catbert said:
Obviously, the coin is awful. I think the holder is as well despite its vaunted numismatic history. Never understood the attraction. I'd prefer a doily slab instead.I like Doily slabs also, but they are "common" compared to Regency slabs. As a matter of fact I'm not picky at all. I like Doily slabs, Regency slabs, PCGS Gen 1.0 & 1.1 (108 white label rattlers), and NGC 1.0, 2.1, & 2.0 slabs.
Agree. I don't collect the slabs myself. But there are less than 1000 total and less than 400 US coins.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Regency slab is nice enough... and with that coin, it is appropriate the slab is almost coffin-shaped.
100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022
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@jmlanzaf said:
@UpGrayedd said:
@Catbert said:
Obviously, the coin is awful. I think the holder is as well despite its vaunted numismatic history. Never understood the attraction. I'd prefer a doily slab instead.I like Doily slabs also, but they are "common" compared to Regency slabs. As a matter of fact I'm not picky at all. I like Doily slabs, Regency slabs, PCGS Gen 1.0 & 1.1 (108 white label rattlers), and NGC 1.0, 2.1, & 2.0 slabs.
Agree. I don't collect the slabs myself. But there are less than 1000 total and less than 400 US coins.
Original number produced was closer to 700, approximately an even split between Danny Kaye and non-Danny Kaye coins. US coin population was probably closer to 200, maybe less. Of the surviving holders, I have seen many with cracks, chips or other imperfections.
Tim
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these seem to have the largest spread on the cert # than any other older collectable holder.
some start with 1 some start with 4 !
<--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -0 -
@UpGrayedd said:
@Catbert said:
Obviously, the coin is awful. I think the holder is as well despite its vaunted numismatic history. Never understood the attraction. I'd prefer a doily slab instead.I like Doily slabs also, but they are "common" compared to Regency slabs. As a matter of fact I'm not picky at all. I like Doily slabs, Regency slabs, PCGS Gen 1.0 & 1.1 (108 white label rattlers), and NGC 1.0, 2.1, & 2.0 slabs.
I don't care if there were 3 produced. Just not attractive to me.
Seated Half Society member #38
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."1 -
@UpGrayedd said:
@FredWeinberg said:
Does anyone have an idea, or is there a list, that shows how many US gold coins are in these
regency holders?Sorry I don't know the answer to your question, but as others have mentioned it is my understanding that the vast majority of Regency slabs are Israeli coins from the Danny Kaye collection. There is however an 1888 Double Eagle currently for sale on ebay. Unfortunately, it is out of my price range.
It would be nice if there was a census for Regency slabs similar to the Doily census, and NGC 2.0 and 2.1 census.
There is a census thread (last update early 2021).
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/785122/pcgs-regency-slab-census-updated-january-2021/p1
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Perhaps PCGS will buy it back??
Gone but not forgotten: IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal, CoinsAreFun.11 -
@Catbert said:
@UpGrayedd said:
@Catbert said:
Obviously, the coin is awful. I think the holder is as well despite its vaunted numismatic history. Never understood the attraction. I'd prefer a doily slab instead.I like Doily slabs also, but they are "common" compared to Regency slabs. As a matter of fact I'm not picky at all. I like Doily slabs, Regency slabs, PCGS Gen 1.0 & 1.1 (108 white label rattlers), and NGC 1.0, 2.1, & 2.0 slabs.
I don't care if there were 3 produced. Just not attractive to me.
That's your prerogative, and I respect your opinion, but many people do like them myself included.
Philippians 4:4-7
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@U1chicago said:
@UpGrayedd said:
@FredWeinberg said:
Does anyone have an idea, or is there a list, that shows how many US gold coins are in these
regency holders?Sorry I don't know the answer to your question, but as others have mentioned it is my understanding that the vast majority of Regency slabs are Israeli coins from the Danny Kaye collection. There is however an 1888 Double Eagle currently for sale on ebay. Unfortunately, it is out of my price range.
It would be nice if there was a census for Regency slabs similar to the Doily census, and NGC 2.0 and 2.1 census.
There is a census thread (last update early 2021).
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/785122/pcgs-regency-slab-census-updated-january-2021/p1
Thanks U1chicago, I guess I missed it.
Philippians 4:4-7
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@Lakesammman said:
Perhaps PCGS will buy it back??Maybe but first you will have to wait 5 hours on hold and 5 months for a final answer.
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@UpGrayedd said:
@U1chicago said:
@UpGrayedd said:
@FredWeinberg said:
Does anyone have an idea, or is there a list, that shows how many US gold coins are in these
regency holders?Sorry I don't know the answer to your question, but as others have mentioned it is my understanding that the vast majority of Regency slabs are Israeli coins from the Danny Kaye collection. There is however an 1888 Double Eagle currently for sale on ebay. Unfortunately, it is out of my price range.
It would be nice if there was a census for Regency slabs similar to the Doily census, and NGC 2.0 and 2.1 census.
There is a census thread (last update early 2021).
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/785122/pcgs-regency-slab-census-updated-january-2021/p1
Thanks U1chicago, I guess I missed it.
You're welcome! The white label rattler census thread seemed to be more active from what I recall. I do appreciate that someone started all of these-it's a good resource for all us slab connoisseurs.
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@Catbert said:
@UpGrayedd said:
@Catbert said:
Obviously, the coin is awful. I think the holder is as well despite its vaunted numismatic history. Never understood the attraction. I'd prefer a doily slab instead.I like Doily slabs also, but they are "common" compared to Regency slabs. As a matter of fact I'm not picky at all. I like Doily slabs, Regency slabs, PCGS Gen 1.0 & 1.1 (108 white label rattlers), and NGC 1.0, 2.1, & 2.0 slabs.
I don't care if there were 3 produced. Just not attractive to me.
I don't like Hummels either. They simply aren't attractive to me.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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IMO analogous to a Fiat 500 motor in a Ferrari GTO chassis.
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@blu62vette said:
Likely the first silver eagle ever graded 70?_Likely the first silver eagle ever graded 70 on Taco Tuesday _
Fixed it for ya!
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!1 -
If I knew for sure or there were a label indicating the "Danny Kaye" provenance, I would add it to my collection. I grew up watching his movies. A great actor he was in his time. I agree its unsightly, but if it wasn't too much money, I would like to have it if it was indeed his coin at one time.
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@air4mdc said:
If I knew for sure or there were a label indicating the "Danny Kaye" provenance, I would add it to my collection. I grew up watching his movies. A great actor he was in his time. I agree its unsightly, but if it wasn't too much money, I would like to have it if it was indeed his coin at one time.I believe it's the Israeli coins that were the Danny Kaye coins.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@air4mdc said:
If I knew for sure or there were a label indicating the "Danny Kaye" provenance, I would add it to my collection. I grew up watching his movies. A great actor he was in his time. I agree its unsightly, but if it wasn't too much money, I would like to have it if it was indeed his coin at one time.Does this count as provenance?
Tim
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@pointfivezero said:
@air4mdc said:
If I knew for sure or there were a label indicating the "Danny Kaye" provenance, I would add it to my collection. I grew up watching his movies. A great actor he was in his time. I agree its unsightly, but if it wasn't too much money, I would like to have it if it was indeed his coin at one time.Does this count as provenance?
Tim
Based on the plaque, all the Israeli coins must have been Danny Kaye's... and half the total Regency coins. What an interesting, accidental homage to Mr. Kaye.
Edited to add: what does "Specimen coin #371" refer to if there were 363 Kaye coins?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@pointfivezero said:
@air4mdc said:
If I knew for sure or there were a label indicating the "Danny Kaye" provenance, I would add it to my collection. I grew up watching his movies. A great actor he was in his time. I agree its unsightly, but if it wasn't too much money, I would like to have it if it was indeed his coin at one time.Does this count as provenance?
Tim
Based on the plaque, all the Israeli coins must have been Danny Kaye's... and half the total Regency coins. What an interesting, accidental homage to Mr. Kaye.
Edited to add: what does "Specimen coin #371" refer to if there were 363 Kaye coins?
It means the family found some extra Lirot after the initial run. It also means I had to pay extra for this anomaly set.
Tim
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4 weeks to go, and it's already at $655 (+ BP). I get the scarcity argument, but I find it fascinating that it is still desirable holding what surely has to be the world's ugliest MS70 coin. It will be interesting to watch.
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
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Wow, it's still three weeks out and it is currently at $1,819 (not counting the BP). It has already exceeded my expectations and unfortunately my wallet.
Philippians 4:4-7
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Still stuck at $1819 with just under a week to go - 7 different bidders so far.
Gone but not forgotten: IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal, CoinsAreFun.0 -
I know some of the history of this PCGS REGENCY (TM) Holder and how it ended up in the auction, but it is not my story tell. It is real.
PCGS did not keep track of the number of holders issued; nor are they differentiated on the cert verification page. The latter is why it just says "Standard"I can share some other details about these holders, including details about the "Danny Kaye Estate" version. For anyone that attended the ANA show last week and went through the exhibits you would have seen my exhibit about these holders- see the 3 pics below.
The Exhibit also included a variety of documents PCGS created for this type of holder (i.e., letters to dealers and collectors, advertisements, order form, and a coupon for a free PCGS Regency holder submission. I also own a few more different, but similar documents.
Here is the text I included in the Exhibit:
Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) REGENCY(TM0 Holders were a holder option offered by PCGS for less than two years in the mid-1990s. The offer included a coin in the PCGS REGENCY Holder and a green velvet bag emblazed with the PCGS logo. Less than 1000 coins were holdered.World coins were also eligible for this special holder. Approximately to 388 to 393 mint state and proof Israeli 5 Lirot coins from the Danny Kaye Estate were graded and placed in the PCGS REGENCY Holders. These “Danny Kaye Estate” coins were sold in custom made velvet green box with the PCGS REGENCY Holder and the green velvet bag, as well as a picture of Danny Kaye, the original wooden holder for the 5 Lirot coin, and a DVD format movie that Danny Kaye starred in.
Bibliography
A Special Holder For Your Special Coins,” PCGS Advertising Insert (No date)“A Special Holder For Your Special Coins,” PCGS Advertising Insert (1995)
David Hall, “Regency Slab,” Collectors Universe, Q & A Forum, August 8, 2005, available at https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/419659/regency-slabs
Personal conversation with the submitter of coins from the Danny Kaye estate to PCGS for grading and grading and placement into PCGS REGENCY(TM) Holder, January 6, 2022.
Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.8 -
@Lakesammman said:
Still stuck at $1819 with just under a week to go - 7 different bidders so far.I fell asleep at the wheel Sunday night and missed out on this Regency holder. Anyone here snag it?
Tim
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Hello Everyone- love all this discussion about Regency's and I can answer most of the open questions as I am currently writing about most of this now. I also have a limited amount of original green PCGS bags for those of you who want to make your Regency slab whole again. Just hit me up at cbtazman@realamericantreasure.com and I will shoot you the details. Let's keep this discussion moving forward now that this coin is sold.7 -
I’d take it…but not for what it’ll sell for.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
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6
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Let's keep this discussion moving forward
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1080482/pcgs-regency-holder-hall-of-fame-pictures-wanted#latest1 -
@cbtazman said:
Let's keep this discussion moving forward
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1080482/pcgs-regency-holder-hall-of-fame-pictures-wanted#latestThis discussion should last at least through Sunday (8/28/2022) because the coin in the OP hasn't sold yet. The coin posted by pointfivezero is different and a much nicer coin. The coin in the OP is a dog that has turned in the holder so the value is based solely on the plastic.
Philippians 4:4-7
1 -
Greg - nice display!
Gone but not forgotten: IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal, CoinsAreFun.2 -
Seems like the time to give this one a bump - 10+ hours left. And yes, I agree the coin is less than desirable ...
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
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FYI: Current bid: $1919.00 (excluding buyers charge) at 10:24 AM, closing this evening just before 8PM
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So what would PCGS policy be on this if it were sent back to get a reholdering? Clearly it turned in the holder, so isn't subject to any grade guarantee. Would our hosts hold their noses and put it in their current slab type with a MS70 grade?
https://www.pcgs.com/services/reholder - says that there is an inspection to see if the coin and holder are genuine, and if so, the coin is not graded again, just put in the new holder. The coin and holder in this case are, indeed, genuine.
(would be foolish for someone to do this, as the entire value of this coin is the holder; I'm just curious what PCGS would do since there is no way that the coin would grade today as a 70).
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@FredF said:
So what would PCGS policy be on this if it were sent back to get a reholdering? Clearly it turned in the holder, so isn't subject to any grade guarantee. Would our hosts hold their noses and put it in their current slab type with a MS70 grade?https://www.pcgs.com/services/reholder - says that there is an inspection to see if the coin and holder are genuine, and if so, the coin is not graded again, just put in the new holder. The coin and holder in this case are, indeed, genuine.
(would be foolish for someone to do this, as the entire value of this coin is the holder; I'm just curious what PCGS would do since there is no way that the coin would grade today as a 70).
PCGS wouldn't re-slab it as a 70. I don't think they would honor their grade guarantee for a coin that turns in their slab because it was poorly stored or had dip residue that wasn't properly rinsed off.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire0 -
@PerryHall said:
@FredF said:
So what would PCGS policy be on this if it were sent back to get a reholdering? Clearly it turned in the holder, so isn't subject to any grade guarantee. Would our hosts hold their noses and put it in their current slab type with a MS70 grade?https://www.pcgs.com/services/reholder - says that there is an inspection to see if the coin and holder are genuine, and if so, the coin is not graded again, just put in the new holder. The coin and holder in this case are, indeed, genuine.
(would be foolish for someone to do this, as the entire value of this coin is the holder; I'm just curious what PCGS would do since there is no way that the coin would grade today as a 70).
PCGS wouldn't re-slab it as a 70. I don't think they would honor their grade guarantee for a coin that turns in their slab because it was poorly stored or had dip residue that wasn't properly rinsed off.
I'm not sure if this is considered milk spotting, PCGS explicitly excludes this:
PCGS Policy for Spotting of Modern Silver Coins
https://www.pcgs.com/silver-coins-spot-policy
PCGS said:
If coins spot after they are graded by PCGS, they are not covered by the terms of the PCGS grading guarantee.1 -
@Lakesammman said:
This auction will be a true test of the value of PCGS plastic!At GC - we will see in about a month how much a Regency holder is worth relative to the value of the coin.
At less than 6 hours (quarter day) to go, it's at double PCGS Price Guide, so looks pretty strong to me.
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@Catbert said:
@UpGrayedd said:
@Catbert said:
Obviously, the coin is awful. I think the holder is as well despite its vaunted numismatic history. Never understood the attraction. I'd prefer a doily slab instead.I like Doily slabs also, but they are "common" compared to Regency slabs. As a matter of fact I'm not picky at all. I like Doily slabs, Regency slabs, PCGS Gen 1.0 & 1.1 (108 white label rattlers), and NGC 1.0, 2.1, & 2.0 slabs.
I don't care if there were 3 produced. Just not attractive to me.
I think they’re a neat novelty. They’d be ridiculous as the standard slab, but especially as someone who likes green, they have an appeal for a one-off special coin. That said, I have one of the Danny Kaye sets (coin, box, bag), and the fact that it’s either #76 or 77 (I don’t remember which off-hand, but both are sentimental numbers from college) makes it that much more enjoyable. I’m not interested in building a set of the holders, but I think one is pretty neat.
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It closed at $2,049.99 ($2,306.24 with the BP). That comes to about $18.50 for the coin and $2,288 for the plastic.
Philippians 4:4-7
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@UpGrayedd said:
It closed at $2,049.99 ($2,306.24 with the BP). That comes to about $18.50 for the coin and $2,288 for the plastic.Very nice value!
Don't forget the MS70 grade!
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Yeah, I set my max amount and stuck with it for a change. I think I was outbid in the final 10 seconds:
Tim
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The Horror.
Vplite992 -
Went for less than I thought it would.
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@coinbuf said:
Went for less than I thought it would.What was your guess?
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I was thinking it would be north of 3K. Still $2,300 for the plastic is a big number and why I have stopped chasing old holders.
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Agree it's a big number. At 3k, I think the coin inside is more important.
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@pointfivezero said:
Yeah, I set my max amount and stuck with it for a change. I think I was outbid in the final 10 seconds:Tim
Methinks you won by losing. 😆
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."5 -
I will stick with my page one assessment in Capital Letters.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
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