Atlanta show potential "thief"
logger7
Posts: 8,275 ✭✭✭✭✭
Date: 7/10/2022
Type of Incident: POTENTIAL THEFT
Investigating Agency: UKN
Location: ATLANTA, GA
Details:
A dealer at the recent monthly Atlanta coin show was loading his car and
observed a subject watching him. The dealer started to approach the individual
who immediately turned and walked away. Before leaving the parking lot the
dealer checked the tires on his vehicle and found a sharp object attached to a
piece of cardboard under one of his tires (pictured below).
The dealer drove home and several minutes after arriving, the suspect pictured
above got out of a vehicle occupied by a second suspect and walked up the
driveway in an attempt to locate the dealer’s vehicle. No contact was made. The
suspect was the same individual who he observed watching him load his car at
the show. There is no further information available at this time.
Coin show dealers and promoters should be on high alert going to and from
shows due to the increase in offenses during the past sixty days. Coin show
security personnel should identify suspicious persons or activity during the show
and be extremely diligent during load in and load out.
Anyone with information contact:
Doug Davis
817-723-7231
Doug@numismaticcrimes.org
Comments
Based on the information provided, the person could be a potential thief. But to call him a thief is premature, not supported by facts and libelous.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Corrected, I'm not a lawyer.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....99.9999999999% of the time it is! Your attitude towards this and many other pickiness on this board along with others is exactly why this country is going down the tubes on an express ticket.
I don’t mind being called picky for discouraging libelous statements.
Perhaps you should direct your dissatisfaction towards PCGS, too, since libelous remarks are against their posted rules:
“Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Please repost the pictures as this is my stomping grounds.
I'll tell ya a good one. Years ago at the Cincinatti show me and another dealer were pulled from the show by the FBI. They were total assholes and wouldn't tell us anything other than wanting to know if we knew the person they showed us pictures of. To make a long story short it turns out mine and the other guys car were photographed by the suspect at another show and they were hunting him on a murder warrant.
On the way home 3 of us trained together driving home. I was the 1st to pull up to a gas pump and a car came flying up, 2 guys got out looking at me as my friend pulled up to the next pump. When they saw we knew each other they hauled ass. Nah, they weren't following me. The other dealer was not one of the guys riding home with me.
Read my next post, it is better to be careful and prepared!
Of course, I agree that it’s better to be careful and prepared. But that has nothing to do with the fact that the original thread title was libelous and against the posted rules.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Here are the pics that Doug included:
Thanks, more to follow!
As I was loading my car at the end of the show Sunday, July 10th, I noticed someone nearby watching me. I walked toward them to get a better look, and he turned away and walked down the hill to the parking lot. When I was ready to drive away, I checked under my tires, under my left rear tire, I saw a piece of cardboard just barely showing. I pulled it out.
image0.jpeg
This Is what it was.
Driving home, I made sure I was not being followed. Within 1-2 minutes of getting home, a car pulled up at the end of my driveway. This guy walked up to my house, and around the front of house, no doubt looking for my car, which he could not find.
image7.jpeg
image4.jpegimage6.jpeg
He showed no fear. There was another person, a driver, in the car. This was the person near my car at the show.
I assume he put a tracker on my car. I am looking for it now.
I wanted everyone to know about this, and to be alert at all times.
A couple more pictures
Is that a gun in his right hand ?
Surely he was just there to help the dealer load and unload his car.... what a nice man
The tire thing? probably just wanted to help him put on the spare. yep
Collector, occasional seller
That damn mask makes it too easy to live out in the open in disguise.
@retirednow
Here is more since I have been talking with the potential victim.
He was well aware that someone might follow him. He took a long route home with many stops and didn't see anyone. He was just getting his car in the garage when a car pulled up. His drive way is 300ft long and he was not visible from the road. Obviously there is a tracker on his car he has not been able to find yet. He took the pictures of the suspect through his 1 way glass windows in his house. The suspect was obviously searching for his car. He thought the same as you, that it was a gun in his right hand and I concur. They took off when the police were close.
Other dealers at the show told him when he contacted them that he had a partner wearing a black mask and you could only see his eyes.
There are rumors they have been seen at other shows.
Be careful folks, these are crazy and dangerous times we are living in.
That’s not the point. No matter how likely you believe it to be, he isn’t known to be a thief.
Thief: “a person who steals another person's property, especially by stealth and without using force or violence.”
I don’t understand the apparent objections to the “ POTENTIAL THEFT” language used in Doug Davis’ factual report.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Absolutely scary stuff.
Dude, please never watch my back for me!
What I would be afraid of moreso than robbery at or on the way to the coin show for this particular set of circumstances, would be home invasion while the perps(if perps at all, Mark) damaged your vehicle causing a delay in getting home. Obviously, he/she/it knew where you lived and probably wasn't expecting you home so quickly, or worse he/she/it were waiting your arrival in your home. Scary times folks and the worse the times get the more these incidents will occur. Please be careful and absolutely no routines, it is on a criminals want list.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Isn’t that what they call a stuffed shirt?
welcome to the real world kids where if you have something someone wants they will do anything to get it cause of one factor plain and in your face human greed which overrides any common sense
https://photos.app.goo.gl/aA2q4Qy9KCz8pqsbA
The meth epidemic in this country is a huge driving force too. Most addicts will go to incredible (and criminal) lengths to keep feeding their addiction. It’s scary……and it’s sad.
And the potential for this whole thing to go sideways in a hurry…in one of the photos there looked to be the butt end of a pistol there. People only walk he vis walking with his hand where it is…that is to have quick access to his weapon.
.
if it helps, there are various apps to detect various types of signals.
you don't have to say what kind of phone you use but i did watch a vid recently that said the apple air tags need an iphone to ping off of in order to work properly. don't forget to jack up your vehicles to get underneath.
Don't you hire bodyguards to look for POTENTIAL threats? I'm not sure why the addition of that word changes anything in terms of preparedness.
I’d be willing to make a large bet that there’s a gun in that pocket with a finger on the trigger. F—-ing scum 😠🤬😡
drugs combined with basic human greed will enhance the need to get whatever they want from some one more then usual
https://photos.app.goo.gl/aA2q4Qy9KCz8pqsbA
You most certainly cannot say he is not a known thief if you do not know what his possible criminal history is. He definitely could be a known thief. If this person was lurking on your private property, you would have a different perspective of what his intentions are.
Please take the blinders off.
still innocent on 0.0000000000009%
Presumed on either way won’t stand in the court of law 🤔
Hopefully the Atlanta police were given photos of the individual. If this person had any plans of theft he knows where this dealer lives and may try again. It is very suspicious to say the least.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
If he’s a known thief, we haven’t been made aware of that fact. And if you don’t know what someone’s history is, that doesn’t make it OK to guess or assume and use words like “thief”. If you think I’m mistaken about this, check with a mod or an attorney and see what they say.
If I’d been in the position of the dealer in the original report, it wouldn’t make a bit of difference to me if the pictured individual was a known thief or not. Either way, I’d be badly shaken.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Seriously? By that logic, i can't say you're not a known child molester because I don't know who you are
I certainly can't say your comment is the most ignorant and out of line comment of the day, but I can certainly presume that it is.
The known information presented, indicates that a criminal offense was likely averted. Be aware of your surroundings and others at all times. Cheers, RickO
Thanks logger7 for posting the info. This stuff appears to be getting worse. The more info we have regarding methods, etc., the better. One needs to be constantly on the alert.
And as for the debate regarding 'thief' or 'potential thief'... Mfeld is right in the legal sense. Even though we are all pretty sure what was going down with the situation... these are crazy times. Best to try to be careful when wording posts...
A dealer I know was the victim of a home invasion in the outskirts of Boston on Christmas day years ago. He was followed into his basement where Paul discharged a warning shot and the guy fell to the ground and the cops arrived a little later. I believe he got arrested for discharging a gun in a residential area. (Same thing happened to the grandson of General Patton who I worked for, for gunning down a rabid raccoon in his backyard.) In court the invader's attorney argued his client would suffer a permanent hearing disability. Again he was in a NYC subway carrying precious metals surrounded by potential thieves and discharged his gun into the air, and was arrested but released when they found he was a federal customs agent. Knowing the law and your rights are vital.
I agree with @logger7... Knowing the law is crucial when violence is possible. At our state certified training, we teach the law involving self defense... It is extremely important to understand what is legal and when force may be employed. There are differences between states, but, in general, the law is clear. Cheers, RickO
Until the person's photo was posted I don't know how the post could have been considered libelous.
Can you libel an unnamed and unpictured person? 🤔
always be alert of your surroundings , who is near you and always remember that coin shows will attract crooks and such cause there is lots of money around and crooks of any type have been known to use force to get what they want
https://photos.app.goo.gl/aA2q4Qy9KCz8pqsbA
One or more photos were included in the original report from Doug Davis, that was posted here.
And yes, you can be sued and lose a case for libel, even if you don’t use the person’s name.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm very glad to see that you agree with me.
I had stated until the person's photo was posted....
I thought the libel charge was based on the OP's post, which did not even include a link to the report.
Who would have a claim for libel if there was no name and no photo? Please let me know so I can start suing people for libel that is not directed at me by name or likeness.
Anyway, as often happens, this thread has become about something other than the intended subject.
BTW, I suspect that the strong circumstantial evidence would be enough for the police to investigate and collect evidence if they had the resources. There must be fingerprints on the tire spike and as-yet unidentified tracking device.
So now it's potential libel for posting a picture of someone who followed you home and was trespassing on your property?
Keep in mind his driveway is 300 ft long. Why would he get out of the car if he was an angel? The guy was trying to find his car!
1 thing I haven't mentioned and I don't think anyone involved has thought of. The potential criminals must have had a police scanner as they took off right before the cops arrived. He also told me the guy had a Bluetooth in his ear so he was either communicating with his partner or it was linked to the tracker on the car.
He also told me he has a tracker detector but thinks the tracker is one of the more advanced motion activated tracking devices.
Doesn't matter who this person is right now. Criminals have become very brazen lately. Day home invasions, car jackings, people posing as in distress and soo many other scenarios that have become all to common. In todays environment, you have to be aware of everyone and your surroundings.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
No one said that it was potential libel, just for posting a picture. In case you really didn’t already get it, the issue is calling someone a “thief”, when, as much as you might wish it, has not been proved. And please stop with your straw-man argument. No one said the person was an “angel”, a good guy or anything resembling that. If he was trespassing, that wouldn’t make him a thief. And even if he would have stolen something if given the opportunity, unless or until he did, that wouldn’t make him a thief.
If someone plots a crime, but doesn’t end up committing it, they’re not guilty of that crime. Surely you’re intelligent enough to understand the difference. So the only explanation I can think of is that you choose not to acknowledge it. That’s your prerogative, but no matter how much you might dislike it. the legal system sees it differently.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This is not true…
BHNC #248 … 121 and counting.
In order for a statement to be libelous, a specific person or entity must be identified and defamed. It's not libelous to say things about an anonymous stranger because no public reputation is harmed.
Second, it's one thing for someone to act strangely at a coin show parking lot. They might be admiring the incredibly handsome coin dealers! But once they follow you to a gas station or a home, they are stalking which is itself a crime, whether they are known thieves, unknown thieves, or potential thieves.
Third, Apple introduced AirTag tracking devices last year. The stated reason is to help people find misplaced items. Put one on your car keys, or in your airport luggage. Then your Apple device can follow where the AirTag is going.
The problem with AirTags is they've been used on more than several occasions to track people home from bars, by slipping the device into a coat pocket or purse. Apple claims to deter this, by allowing fellow Apple users to scan for AirTags in proximity. Left unsaid is how non-Apple users are supposed to protect themselves. Buy a device from every manufacturer who also sells tracking devices?
I am curious if any members of the dealer or collector community have had experience with AirTags in their belongings or vehicles. It's definitely a safety issue to be aware of.
Please point out what’s not true. I’m guessing you were thinking that someone can be guilty of an attempted crime (such as attempted murder, as opposed to murder). That would be correct, but what the person pictured in this thread is said to have done, does not make him a thief.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This on the other hand…
BHNC #248 … 121 and counting.