Shill bidders on coin rolls
Nulte
Posts: 131 ✭✭
Boy, has ebay REALLY dropped the ball on their shill bidding protocols, and can't seem to nail down OBVIOUS shill bidders. Tell me what you think, I've got a bidder who has bid over 1000 times in a month on 953 items and 96% of his ALL HIGH BIDS with one seller, but he has left ZERO FEEDBACK and hasn't seemed to nail down 1 auction, and all his bids are MID AUCTION, AND he has 3 cancellations. I don't know about you, but this pos has OVER 9000 STARS! Now this just shows me that if I can notice these types of things why doesn't ebay? Because he has 9000 stars and makes ebay mohey. Oh yeah he's A SELLER on ebay as well, kinda hard to win coin rolls when you have a bidder who just raises the price never intending to win but to boost their profits, and PURE GREED. It's 2 sellers working together to pump up profits using stock photos of coins you'll never get AND SHILL BIDDING on top of it? Ebay is going in the toilet. What do you think,shill bidder or TOTAL FRAUD
Comments
I have been on ebay over 25 years.
I never ever even think about shill bidders as I set the price on what I buy.
Simple.
It may be easier for you because you are a dealer and looking to make a profit so anything beyond making a certain profit isn't attractive.
It may be different for collectors that really want a specific piece for their collection.
Must be Nice, to have nothing more to worry about in life than what's going on at eBay.
I think I wouldn't bid on auctions by that seller if I was worried about shill bids.
One of the nicer aspects of being a dealer is that I changed my whole mindset about losing a coin at auction. No worries at all.
Most collectors, except at the most extreme level, would do well to remember this as well! Including me.
Tom
Sure, but a shill can make make prices go higher than without a shill, and as a collector, it may be more important to have a particular piece.
It's not just about going higher than one wants, but having it go higher than it would without a shill.
Think of the shill as a reserve. No way you get the coin below the reserve so why stress over it.
Well, I don't stress about it because I snipe
But if it's a reserve, the seller should just use the appropriate eBay mechanism for setting it.
In a perfect world .....
You can worry about shills or not. Neither option is going to change anything.
Sure, but many shills aim to bump up the price and ultimately lose so they don't bid at the end. I'm okay if they really want to win.
Sniping isn't a game, it's how eBay bidding works.
As such, this is a false equivalence since shill bidding is prohibited by eBay, but sniping isn't.
Sounds like you violated eBay policy:
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/selling-practices-policy/shill-bidding-policy?id=4353
"But I could have had the coin for less..."
Yeah, and if the seller had listed it misspelled in the wrong category, you could have won for less, too. Or if a couple of the people who were bidding against you were busy the week the auction was running instead and they never saw it. Or it was listed with a really low BIN and you saw it first.
Lots of ways to maybe pay less, not as many that you have control over.
The OP is about eBay and most shill discussions on the forums are about eBay so it seemed like a safe assumption, which turned out to be correct.
It's not just that you did it, but hat you seem to be defending a prohibited practice.
I find it interesting people compare shilling which is prohibited to sniping which is not prohibited.
To me, sniping is like live bidding at Heritage or Stack's. Do you think live bidding at Heritage or Stack's should be disallowed?
I did it too. Just once, back in 2005.
I feel so dirty.
You left out sniping. They want auctions where other bidders don't have an opportunity to respond to their bid.
Yes, you've been clear you don't like sniping for many years, but it's not prohibited.
On the other hand, you seem to support prohibited activities.
At least you're clear on where you stand. I'll give you that.
And it's a perfect example of why worrying about shills on eBay is a waste of time. jmlanzaf said he did that once. How would eBay have any hope of stopping that kind of bidding? They wouldn't.
Can you imagine, though? Auctions would go on all night, and we'd all be even more sleep-deprived.
Apparently sellers do get banned and given time outs for shilling.
Check out these posts on the eBay community:
Can't make anything of the linked comment. What point do you think it's supporting?
It's a counterpoint for "why worrying about shills on eBay is a waste of time".
Sorry, I need more. Can you put your argument in your own words?
Every seller and product is different. Some items are very successful at 99 cent auctions and others aren't. Steve Hayden runs 99 cent auctions every week.
I buy what I want, however the seller wants to sell.
Probably. And then the people who are determined to shill will find a different way to do it.
Yes, it sounds like a shill bidder and I’d label it fraudulent, as well. Sadly, there’s little or nothing you can do about it, other than report it to eBay. Personally, I wouldn’t bid in that seller’s auctions, even if I really wanted some of his coins and even if I thought I could win them at reasonable prices. Maybe that wouldn’t be smart, but it would make me feel better.And that has value to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
For eBay auctions, I always snipe. My approach is also very liberating.
I'm glad we have the same experience, even if we get there differently.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1078035/fs-on-ebay-1943-mexico-centenario-50-pesos-gold-coin-ngc-ms65-1-2-ozs-low-mintage-no-reserve
I also don't worry about shills, but I understand that others do.
And the end time is part of the enjoyment of the hobby for me. It's an adrenaline rush and I wouldn't have it any other way.
I love the rush. Not the rock group.
I’m surprised so many people here seem to be ok with a violation of eBay policy. Shilling should not be done whether it impacts the ultimate price or not. Is no one interested in following rules anymore?
Understanding that something happens is not evidence that it is considered acceptable. How would you propose anything be done about shilling on eBay? It's their site and they either will or won't deal with the issue, regardless of what anybody thinks.
edited to add... As far as violating policy goes, I have had eBay CS tell me that my buyer was in violation of their SNAD policy but I still had to pay to have an item returned to me. If eBay violates their own policies while admitting it, well...