@Glen2022 said:
What is sniping? I have not heard that term before. Thanks
Placing a bid within the last few seconds of an auction
The idea is no one will have time to bid against you if you snipe. Of course, if someone put in a maximum bid that's higher than your bid, the auction software will automatically out bid you.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Don't worry about shill bidding. Not much different than a major auction house deciding the price is too cheap and buying it for themself. In either case, you don't get it cheaper at auction because you weren't willing to pay what they wanted.
Sorry if my first post hit any nerves, it really hits my nerves when people get taken advantage of. Maybe your money is unlimited where you don't mind shill bidders, but to collectors on a budget with fixed income and who are disabled it is a , BIG DEAL. It must be a problem with so many replies
@Nulte said:
Sorry if my first post hit any nerves, it really hits my nerves when people get taken advantage of. Maybe your money is unlimited where you don't mind shill bidders, but to collectors on a budget with fixed income and who are disabled it is a , BIG DEAL. It must be a problem with so many replies
I probably dislike shilling as much as you do. However, if a seller’s unwilling to sell below a certain price, whether he has a minimum opening bid, uses a shill or sets a reserve, the result is essentially the same - you won’t be able to acquire the item below his minimum price.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I totally understand a minimum price, but when the seller is ALSO using STOCK PHOTOS of good end coins, just to entice higher bids to begin with, AND a shill bidder, we are talking a LOT of money. The seller has used the same photo to garner 5 pages of positive feedback with THE EXACT SAME COIN ROLL sold. Stating these are the coins you will get but obviously nobody got it but maybe the first time he sold it. These two sellers are ones people have bought from on this site, how can they not be with 13000 stars between them? I'm just disgusted at people's depravity and greed. I can attest you WILL NOT GET what you bid on as I won the same coin roll twice, but never received the one I bid on, and ebay no help because the coin FIT the description, but WASNT the one shown. This was 3 years ago, unabated they roll (no pun intended!)
@JBK said:
What the heck is up with this thread? 🤔
A new poster kicked it off with a single post with an ebay gripe and now there are 50 comments of bickering among other members.
I guess a few people got rained out of their 4th of July barbecues.
Ebay sucks. Long live ebay.
Must be a problem,eh? I just asked a question about what people thought about what I have encountered on ebay, and their inability to put proper protocols to catch these shill bidders, and 1 should be a ratio of high bids entered and items won, and with over 1000 HIGH bids on 952 items in a month and not win ONE, but 3 bid cancellations, BY ANOTHER SELLER it doesn't Fare well for fair practice of an open market when they are setting each other's minimums so high by raising prices out of reach . I would post the names but I don't want to anger anyone or alienate myself from posting, here,by gathering ire of less scrupulous members who don't have a problem, iwas merely asking WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT, I was basically testing the waters so to speak, and opinions of others. Sorry if my post bothered you, maybe hit too close to home?
@SenateSaloon said:
I’m surprised so many people here seem to be ok with a violation of eBay policy. Shilling should not be done whether it impacts the ultimate price or not. Is no one interested in following rules anymore?
We're not "ok" with it. We just don't consider it worth worrying about.
In NY and other states, "collusion" is illegal. That means that if I go to an auction with a friend, I can't choose to stay away from a lot that my friend is bidding on. But, does anyone really think I'm going to run my friend up?
@Nulte said:
I totally understand a minimum price, but when the seller is ALSO using STOCK PHOTOS of good end coins, just to entice higher bids to begin with, AND a shill bidder, we are talking a LOT of money. The seller has used the same photo to garner 5 pages of positive feedback with THE EXACT SAME COIN ROLL sold. Stating these are the coins you will get but obviously nobody got it but maybe the first time he sold it. These two sellers are ones people have bought from on this site, how can they not be with 13000 stars between them? I'm just disgusted at people's depravity and greed. I can attest you WILL NOT GET what you bid on as I won the same coin roll twice, but never received the one I bid on, and ebay no help because the coin FIT the description, but WASNT the one shown. This was 3 years ago, unabated they roll (no pun intended!)
If you know that he is using stock photos and selling inferior coins, it seems to me that the shill bidding is the least of your problems.
Unfortunately, auctions anywhere can have shill bids, many times you won't even know. I'd rather the sellers just start the bidding on the item at the minimum price they would accept, but there's other strategies people have used successfully. Buy it nows are more straight forward, although it tends to be harder in my experience to get a good deal that way.
@JBK said:
What the heck is up with this thread? 🤔
A new poster kicked it off with a single post with an ebay gripe and now there are 50 comments of bickering among other members.
I guess a few people got rained out of their 4th of July barbecues.
Ebay sucks. Long live ebay.
Must be a problem,eh? I just asked a question about what people thought about what I have encountered on ebay, and their inability to put proper protocols to catch these shill bidders, and 1 should be a ratio of high bids entered and items won, and with over 1000 HIGH bids on 952 items in a month and not win ONE, but 3 bid cancellations, BY ANOTHER SELLER it doesn't Fare well for fair practice of an open market when they are setting each other's minimums so high by raising prices out of reach . I would post the names but I don't want to anger anyone or alienate myself from posting, here,by gathering ire of less scrupulous members who don't have a problem, iwas merely asking WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT, I was basically testing the waters so to speak, and opinions of others. Sorry if my post bothered you, maybe hit too close to home?
Now you've turned around and attacked members of the forum???? No one is bothered by your post. I don't even care that you are casting aspersions on members of the forum. But I think we all know what you're about. I'm sorry, is my post hitting too close to home?
There are NO unscrupulous members of this forum. This forum reports more eBay sellers than probably any other coin organization. This forum frowns upon stock photos and misrepresentations.
@Nulte said:
Sorry if my post bothered you, maybe hit too close to home?
My comment had nothing to do with you - it was an observation about the commenters.
What does your crack about hitting too close to home mean? Are you suggesting that I am a shill bidder?
I'm thinking that maybe you deserve all the shilling you get.
Take it easy my friend, Of course if the shoe fits, then, yes. Usually if that offends folks, that's generally the reason,I've come to find, on many occasions. Not saying you are a shill bidder, I would post who IS a shill bidder on what account, I'm not worried about getting sued, because I've nailed him to A wall, and he knows it, I just don't want to get booted on my first post for violating any forum policy. P.s. I don't get shilled, but I DO CATCH A LOT and report them when I do, they just do nothing about them, lol!
@Nulte said:
Maybe your money is unlimited where you don't mind shill bidders...
Nobody has said that.
That's what shill bidders do, ,RAISE the price out of range, requiring an unlimited supply of money to have a chance of winning. I'm disabled, and I DONT have the energy or strength to try to do much anymore, and to see this type of bs FRAUD rampant on ebay, gets my goat, sorry.
@Nulte said:
Sorry if my first post hit any nerves, it really hits my nerves when people get taken advantage of. Maybe your money is unlimited where you don't mind shill bidders, but to collectors on a budget with fixed income and who are disabled it is a , BIG DEAL. It must be a problem with so many replies
I probably dislike shilling as much as you do. **However, if a seller’s unwilling to sell below a certain price, whether he has a minimum opening bid, uses a shill or sets a reserve, the result is essentially the same **- you won’t be able to acquire the item below his minimum price.
Not to mention if he cancels the auction or even the sale. Risky and definitely not cool, but we've all seen it.
It's the counterpart to bidders who spot an error and demand the coin for 99 cents.
@Nulte said:
iwas merely asking WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT, I was basically testing the waters so to speak, and opinions of others. Sorry if my post bothered you, maybe hit too close to home?
Actually you were ranting like a madman, and then expanded on it by hurling insults every which way.
You said "this pos has OVER 9000 STARS!" What does that mean and why should we care?
Multiple people here have suggested that if you're this angry about a seller, perhaps you should buy from someone else?
@Nulte said:
Sorry if my first post hit any nerves, it really hits my nerves when people get taken advantage of. Maybe your money is unlimited where you don't mind shill bidders, but to collectors on a budget with fixed income and who are disabled it is a , BIG DEAL. It must be a problem with so many replies
I probably dislike shilling as much as you do. **However, if a seller’s unwilling to sell below a certain price, whether he has a minimum opening bid, uses a shill or sets a reserve, the result is essentially the same **- you won’t be able to acquire the item below his minimum price.
Not to mention if he cancels the auction or even the sale. Risky and definitely not cool, but we've all seen it.
It's the counterpart to bidders who spot an error and demand the coin for 99 > @JBK said:
OP continues to attack the integrity of forum members.
It's been reported.
What are you talking about ? Whose integrity have I "attacked"? If I'm being so bold as to ask? I thought this was a discussion forum,and I had a question I thought pertinent to people who use ebay, sorry to inform you , like I said didn't mean to offend, I guess some people aren't nice no matter what you do, or say to placate them,. And it was YOU who started by attacking my first post,wasn't it? Maybe you should be reported
Not a very friendly welcome, I may add. You didn't have to comment if you didn't want to answer my original question pertaining the shill bidder i found, and what you thought about it. Instead you attack my post, for being my first post? What do you suggest be my first post? Please tell me so I don't anger you or say anything you don't like,ok?
@Nulte said:
I totally understand a minimum price, but when the seller is ALSO using STOCK PHOTOS of good end coins, just to entice higher bids to begin with, AND a shill bidder, we are talking a LOT of money. The seller has used the same photo to garner 5 pages of positive feedback with THE EXACT SAME COIN ROLL sold. Stating these are the coins you will get but obviously nobody got it but maybe the first time he sold it. These two sellers are ones people have bought from on this site, how can they not be with 13000 stars between them? I'm just disgusted at people's depravity and greed. I can attest you WILL NOT GET what you bid on as I won the same coin roll twice, but never received the one I bid on, and ebay no help because the coin FIT the description, but WASNT the one shown. This was 3 years ago, unabated they roll (no pun intended!)
If you know that he is using stock photos and selling inferior coins, it seems to me that the shill bidding is the least of your problems.
Not my problem, everyone who buys his coins, but to use the same photos over a HUNDRED TIMES is criminal, and I never attacked anyone on this forum, and if you think my comment about some on here getting taken by these sellers, attacks their integrity, in any way,I , it was merely stating that these sellers are GOOD at what they do, and I would not be surprised if any on here have been taken by them before. That all. It's kind of sad having to defend myself after asking whether or not you thought I found a crook or not. If you consider that questioning forum members integrity, I apologize, not my intention. Only thing is you don't know they are stock photos unless you check sold listings or go ahead and bite, and wait until you get taken yourself, and then it's too late, as they hide behind ebay policy, and you can't complain, as long as he sends you a roll with the same dated mint marked coins on the end, you CANNOT complain or give negative feedback because all they ask is if the description is accurate, which of course, it is, you just won't get the ones you were bidding on,because he sold those coins months if not longer before.
I think ebay is just a place where you can now get fleeced, by unscrupulous players who can continue to prey on new and old collectors. I bet the guy who paid $450 bucks for a roll of pennies wouldn't be too happy his roll was sold, before he ever bid on it. Do you suggest it's right, or think it's ok because his shill bidder only stayed in to the $250 mark.? (probably his minimum he wanted to beigin with)), because he had other bidders besides himself?, who were fighting it out over a coin they will never get,because of the use of stock photos purely to entice higher bids, so a shill bid is irrelevant? to him, the collector who buys what he SEES? They are not placing an order for coins someone else thinks are as good or better than the ones shown. Some people are fond of tiger striped lincolns, and if you are bidding on a tiger stripe, accordingly and you don't get it, even after taking out the shills bids, unknowingly,paying ultimately more for items you didn't want or get. Sorry if I rant, it's a burr under my saddle, and needed to know others opinions before any more steps were taken towards contacting law enforcement in their areas. Unless that's frowned on, of course. Sorry if I'm curt or seem rude, not my intentions to offend any on here, but when it's wrong it's wrong, and the addition of shill bidding to the complexity of his scam, just illustrates how far people will go for greed today. Sad, really.
@Nulte said:
That's what shill bidders do, ,RAISE the price out of range, requiring an unlimited supply of money to have a chance of winning.
Nobody has an unlimited supply of money. Your arguments could possibly be more compelling without the strawmen, but that's just an opinion.
What's strawmen, you mean strawman? I'm sorry it's hard to be concise trying to convey the complexities I ran into on ebay without posting a novel, or it sounding like I'm a raving lunatic,, as you said I asked for opinions, not using a strawman argument, on facts. And things seem to stray off topic but thank you for your opinion on my post or reply i gave in response to my post, either way, thank you
What are you talking about ? Whose integrity have I "attacked"? If I'm being so bold as to ask? I thought this was a discussion forum,and I had a question I thought pertinent to people who use ebay, sorry to inform you , like I said didn't mean to offend, I guess some people aren't nice no matter what you do, or say to placate them,. And it was YOU who started by attacking my first post,wasn't it? Maybe you should be reported
>
You asked whose integrity you’ve attacked. Here’s part of one of your
posts:
“...I would post the names but I don't want to anger anyone or alienate myself from posting, here,by gathering ire of less scrupulous members who don't have a problem, iwas merely asking WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT, I was basically testing the waters so to speak, and opinions of others. Sorry if my post bothered you, maybe hit too close to home?..”
To say “...less scrupulous members..” is an attack on integrity. And as has been pointed out, just because many or most members aren’t bothered by the shilling as much as you are, doesn’t mean they don’t think it’s wrong.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@SenateSaloon said:
I’m surprised so many people here seem to be ok with a violation of eBay policy. Shilling should not be done whether it impacts the ultimate price or not. Is no one interested in following rules anymore?
Most people here are fine with finding a listing on eBay and then buying it for less off the dealer's website. Some dealers even encourage it. Perhaps needless to say that is also a violation of eBay's ToS.
Ebay sales platform is not perfectly designed to stop shill bidding. They can state it is not allowed but how to enforce friends or family? I am sure they have metrics to detect a shill bidding scheme from within so your concern is noted.
Most states allow an auction house to bid on it's own items for sale. At least you will not have to worry about ebay bidding against you.
@Nulte
I think most members and especially collectors here would agree that they do not like shill bidding or stock photos. The question is what can be done about it, and the answer on eBay is unfortunately not much. Accordingly, because we already understand that it is an unfortunate part of eBay most of us aren't going to get quite as riled up as you seem to be, even though we don't like it (life is too short). Furthermore, I would wager a guess that most seasoned members here aren't looking at penny rolls with salted ends on eBay because we already know they are a scam, regardless of shill bidding.
Comments
What the heck is up with this thread? 🤔
A new poster kicked it off with a single post with an ebay gripe and now there are 50 comments of bickering among other members.
I guess a few people got rained out of their 4th of July barbecues.
Ebay sucks. Long live ebay.
What is sniping? I have not heard that term before. Thanks
Placing a bid within the last few seconds of an auction
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
The idea is no one will have time to bid against you if you snipe. Of course, if someone put in a maximum bid that's higher than your bid, the auction software will automatically out bid you.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Thank you both!!!!
Don't worry about shill bidding. Not much different than a major auction house deciding the price is too cheap and buying it for themself. In either case, you don't get it cheaper at auction because you weren't willing to pay what they wanted.
Sorry if my first post hit any nerves, it really hits my nerves when people get taken advantage of. Maybe your money is unlimited where you don't mind shill bidders, but to collectors on a budget with fixed income and who are disabled it is a , BIG DEAL. It must be a problem with so many replies
Just the typical multi page thread that we can expect when eBay or CAC are involved.
I probably dislike shilling as much as you do. However, if a seller’s unwilling to sell below a certain price, whether he has a minimum opening bid, uses a shill or sets a reserve, the result is essentially the same - you won’t be able to acquire the item below his minimum price.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I totally understand a minimum price, but when the seller is ALSO using STOCK PHOTOS of good end coins, just to entice higher bids to begin with, AND a shill bidder, we are talking a LOT of money. The seller has used the same photo to garner 5 pages of positive feedback with THE EXACT SAME COIN ROLL sold. Stating these are the coins you will get but obviously nobody got it but maybe the first time he sold it. These two sellers are ones people have bought from on this site, how can they not be with 13000 stars between them? I'm just disgusted at people's depravity and greed. I can attest you WILL NOT GET what you bid on as I won the same coin roll twice, but never received the one I bid on, and ebay no help because the coin FIT the description, but WASNT the one shown. This was 3 years ago, unabated they roll (no pun intended!)
Nobody has said that.
Must be a problem,eh? I just asked a question about what people thought about what I have encountered on ebay, and their inability to put proper protocols to catch these shill bidders, and 1 should be a ratio of high bids entered and items won, and with over 1000 HIGH bids on 952 items in a month and not win ONE, but 3 bid cancellations, BY ANOTHER SELLER it doesn't Fare well for fair practice of an open market when they are setting each other's minimums so high by raising prices out of reach . I would post the names but I don't want to anger anyone or alienate myself from posting, here,by gathering ire of less scrupulous members who don't have a problem, iwas merely asking WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT, I was basically testing the waters so to speak, and opinions of others. Sorry if my post bothered you, maybe hit too close to home?
eBay is not for everybody.
My comment had nothing to do with you - it was an observation about the commenters.
What does your crack about hitting too close to home mean? Are you suggesting that I am a shill bidder?
I'm thinking that maybe you deserve all the shilling you get.
We're not "ok" with it. We just don't consider it worth worrying about.
In NY and other states, "collusion" is illegal. That means that if I go to an auction with a friend, I can't choose to stay away from a lot that my friend is bidding on. But, does anyone really think I'm going to run my friend up?
If you know that he is using stock photos and selling inferior coins, it seems to me that the shill bidding is the least of your problems.
"Is no one interested in following rules anymore?"
eBay doesn't always follow their own rules. And they'll even tell you so when they're not following them. So there's that.
Unfortunately, auctions anywhere can have shill bids, many times you won't even know. I'd rather the sellers just start the bidding on the item at the minimum price they would accept, but there's other strategies people have used successfully. Buy it nows are more straight forward, although it tends to be harder in my experience to get a good deal that way.
Now you've turned around and attacked members of the forum???? No one is bothered by your post. I don't even care that you are casting aspersions on members of the forum. But I think we all know what you're about. I'm sorry, is my post hitting too close to home?
There are NO unscrupulous members of this forum. This forum reports more eBay sellers than probably any other coin organization. This forum frowns upon stock photos and misrepresentations.
I don't think we were bickering. We were just discussing eBay. We're all friends on this thread.
Take it easy my friend, Of course if the shoe fits, then, yes. Usually if that offends folks, that's generally the reason,I've come to find, on many occasions. Not saying you are a shill bidder, I would post who IS a shill bidder on what account, I'm not worried about getting sued, because I've nailed him to A wall, and he knows it, I just don't want to get booted on my first post for violating any forum policy. P.s. I don't get shilled, but I DO CATCH A LOT and report them when I do, they just do nothing about them, lol!
Everybody needs a hobby.
That's what shill bidders do, ,RAISE the price out of range, requiring an unlimited supply of money to have a chance of winning. I'm disabled, and I DONT have the energy or strength to try to do much anymore, and to see this type of bs FRAUD rampant on ebay, gets my goat, sorry.
Nobody has an unlimited supply of money. Your arguments could possibly be more compelling without the strawmen, but that's just an opinion.
Not to mention if he cancels the auction or even the sale. Risky and definitely not cool, but we've all seen it.
It's the counterpart to bidders who spot an error and demand the coin for 99 cents.
I agree. I've seen much worse in knitting circles. Well, come to think of it, much worse!
OP continues to attack the integrity of forum members.
It's been reported.
Actually you were ranting like a madman, and then expanded on it by hurling insults every which way.
You said "this pos has OVER 9000 STARS!" What does that mean and why should we care?
Multiple people here have suggested that if you're this angry about a seller, perhaps you should buy from someone else?
And WHY ALL THE CAPS?
Be careful about insulting one of them girls! Those needles are sharp!
What are you talking about ? Whose integrity have I "attacked"? If I'm being so bold as to ask? I thought this was a discussion forum,and I had a question I thought pertinent to people who use ebay, sorry to inform you , like I said didn't mean to offend, I guess some people aren't nice no matter what you do, or say to placate them,. And it was YOU who started by attacking my first post,wasn't it? Maybe you should be reported
Not a very friendly welcome, I may add. You didn't have to comment if you didn't want to answer my original question pertaining the shill bidder i found, and what you thought about it. Instead you attack my post, for being my first post? What do you suggest be my first post? Please tell me so I don't anger you or say anything you don't like,ok?
Not my problem, everyone who buys his coins, but to use the same photos over a HUNDRED TIMES is criminal, and I never attacked anyone on this forum, and if you think my comment about some on here getting taken by these sellers, attacks their integrity, in any way,I , it was merely stating that these sellers are GOOD at what they do, and I would not be surprised if any on here have been taken by them before. That all. It's kind of sad having to defend myself after asking whether or not you thought I found a crook or not. If you consider that questioning forum members integrity, I apologize, not my intention. Only thing is you don't know they are stock photos unless you check sold listings or go ahead and bite, and wait until you get taken yourself, and then it's too late, as they hide behind ebay policy, and you can't complain, as long as he sends you a roll with the same dated mint marked coins on the end, you CANNOT complain or give negative feedback because all they ask is if the description is accurate, which of course, it is, you just won't get the ones you were bidding on,because he sold those coins months if not longer before.
I think ebay is just a place where you can now get fleeced, by unscrupulous players who can continue to prey on new and old collectors. I bet the guy who paid $450 bucks for a roll of pennies wouldn't be too happy his roll was sold, before he ever bid on it. Do you suggest it's right, or think it's ok because his shill bidder only stayed in to the $250 mark.? (probably his minimum he wanted to beigin with)), because he had other bidders besides himself?, who were fighting it out over a coin they will never get,because of the use of stock photos purely to entice higher bids, so a shill bid is irrelevant? to him, the collector who buys what he SEES? They are not placing an order for coins someone else thinks are as good or better than the ones shown. Some people are fond of tiger striped lincolns, and if you are bidding on a tiger stripe, accordingly and you don't get it, even after taking out the shills bids, unknowingly,paying ultimately more for items you didn't want or get. Sorry if I rant, it's a burr under my saddle, and needed to know others opinions before any more steps were taken towards contacting law enforcement in their areas. Unless that's frowned on, of course. Sorry if I'm curt or seem rude, not my intentions to offend any on here, but when it's wrong it's wrong, and the addition of shill bidding to the complexity of his scam, just illustrates how far people will go for greed today. Sad, really.
snipped ……
What's strawmen, you mean strawman? I'm sorry it's hard to be concise trying to convey the complexities I ran into on ebay without posting a novel, or it sounding like I'm a raving lunatic,, as you said I asked for opinions, not using a strawman argument, on facts. And things seem to stray off topic but thank you for your opinion on my post or reply i gave in response to my post, either way, thank you
@Nulte said:
>
You asked whose integrity you’ve attacked. Here’s part of one of your
posts:
“...I would post the names but I don't want to anger anyone or alienate myself from posting, here,by gathering ire of less scrupulous members who don't have a problem, iwas merely asking WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT, I was basically testing the waters so to speak, and opinions of others. Sorry if my post bothered you, maybe hit too close to home?..”
To say “...less scrupulous members..” is an attack on integrity. And as has been pointed out, just because many or most members aren’t bothered by the shilling as much as you are, doesn’t mean they don’t think it’s wrong.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I don't like stock photos, and I doubt you'll find many people here who do, but it is a civil claim at worst. "Criminal" is a gross overstatement.
Most people here are fine with finding a listing on eBay and then buying it for less off the dealer's website. Some dealers even encourage it. Perhaps needless to say that is also a violation of eBay's ToS.
Ebay sales platform is not perfectly designed to stop shill bidding. They can state it is not allowed but how to enforce friends or family? I am sure they have metrics to detect a shill bidding scheme from within so your concern is noted.
Most states allow an auction house to bid on it's own items for sale. At least you will not have to worry about ebay bidding against you.
@Nulte
I think most members and especially collectors here would agree that they do not like shill bidding or stock photos. The question is what can be done about it, and the answer on eBay is unfortunately not much. Accordingly, because we already understand that it is an unfortunate part of eBay most of us aren't going to get quite as riled up as you seem to be, even though we don't like it (life is too short). Furthermore, I would wager a guess that most seasoned members here aren't looking at penny rolls with salted ends on eBay because we already know they are a scam, regardless of shill bidding.
Edited for spelling/grammar.
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