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JA from CAC discusses toned coins
SeattleSlammer
Posts: 9,961 ✭✭✭✭✭
I’ve always liked Seth Chandler’s enthusiasm for coins and his inventory — cool vid here from his YouTube channel talking with JA about toned coins that didn’t receive the bean and why. 😎🍺
https://youtu.be/OwXJf_NjJ3836
Comments
Just finished watching it. Great insight with the failed examples.
Tim
I appreciate that he’s willing to candidly point out coins sometimes being on the fence — the ones that sometimes might bean but other times not. And the fact that tone doctors are getting more sophisticated, and that will inevitably result in some AT coins getting beaned—but with the attitude that they endeavor to eventually weed those out.
Definitely worth a half hour of your time to hear from JA his perspective on toned coins in the marketplace.
Worth the time spent watching this. Thanks for posting Seth's video. I had a great talk with him at Central States. He is a one of the good people in collecting.
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$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
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@SeattleSlammer ... Thanks for posting this video. Very interesting. No doubt the processes for AT have become very refined.... May eventually cool the color market. Or not. Cheers, RickO
Great video and educational source!
im glad i spent the time to watch it, again better knowledge/understanding sure helps out. best wishes all
Excellent video, and very informative - thanks for posting this for the forum.
Great insights. My question would be around the 18 minute mark with the ms64 Morgan, I got the impression based on his comments that he does not view every coin but definitely takes responsibility for his staff if they green light a coin that should not pass.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
thanks @SethChandler for doing this interview. its very interesting and much appreciated.
Much of the examination is a hunch (a hunch based on experience) and not a science.
peacockcoins
JA makes grading more understandable.
Thanks for tagging Seth — I had a brain fart and forgot that he is a forumite here. 😎. Sorry Seth!
Agree this was a really informative video. Thanks to JA and Seth! While I consider too old for Instragram, I've enjoyed his videos.
My current "Box of 20"
Yep, that's pretty cool. To me it shows that JA offers another set of discerning, conservative eyes.
--Severian the Lame
I truly enjoyed this video. I like how JA elaborated on the fact that if a coin is questionable to CAC, does not mean it IS definitely AT or below grade, just that to him it could be and he is the one who has to guarantee his work. Borderline issues happen on all sides of the fence and we as collectors have to abide by the decisions of the graders. Thanks for posting.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Superb information.
Drunner
("BagBurn"--2011-2022)
Very excellent video. It reinforces how CAC can be a great insurance for a coin (a backup net in a sense) and that if coins don't sticker it doesn't necessarily mean they are bad coins. I would jump on that 1942 PR67 dime in a heartbeat, although the hairlines are there, that color is so rarely found on those coins when they show contrast and full detail. I'm surprised JA didn't take into account the contrast when grading it, I think that's what pushed it over the edge at PCGS. Not saying he's wrong in any way, just my personal opinion. JA clearly knows more about grading than I do.
And I had to mention the 1938 Felix Schlag proof nickel card hanging in the corner of @SethChandler's office, what a neat piece.
Coin Photographer.
Great of John to agree to this. His willingness to do this speaks volumes to his integrity. Well done. Thanks to Seth for the opportunity to learn.
My takeaway is that JA is opposed to net grading of toned coins (meaning - it's a 64 but because of awesome color it gets a 65.) That's super insightful. Personally, I would prefer the NGC star notation, where you get a technical grade and then the star because it's awesome vs. the grade bump due to color.
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Great video. I'd love to see something similar from a PCGS grader.
Seth is the man and JA’s graciousness with his knowledge and advice is really exemplary. Collectors would be well advised to listen to every word when certain people speak.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Well worth watching, thanks for posting it.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
But some of us believe that some “Star” coins have already received a grade bump, due to the highly attractive color that (also) leads to the designation.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Got some CAC coins that I like a lot
Got some non CAC coins that I like a lot
Got what I like a lot
Fantastic video and I’m grateful those involved took the time to do it. Seth is a class act and John’s comments are always insightful.
It did seem the case in the video for that particular group of coins for sure, but none of those coins had off the charts eye appeal. I would guess that it’s a lot easier to sticker a color bumped coin that makes your jaw drop (but then the eye appeal itself presumably becomes a stronger factor in assessing the grade as well.)
Great watch, exactly why one should send in eligible coins to CAC and learn. His comments on why the coins did not bean were exactly the feedback I have been getting for the no-beaners from him. This is also why CAC should and do carry a premium, they are weeding out the overgraded, the coins with manipulations, etc. JA was also candid in pointing out that they are not perfect but learn from their mistakes.
Best, SH
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This was incredible, I could watch JA critique coins for hours. Thanks to both Seth and JA for doing this, and I would happily watch any more they chose to grace us with.
Gotta agree wholeheartedly!
Tom
Thanks to both the poster who posted this and the people who made it. Very kind and helpful of them to take the time to further our numismatic education.
awesome video and insight from JA ... thanks @SethChandler and JA !!!
Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set
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Thanks for sharing this. It answers some questions and raises others. I see CAC being more fussy now in stickering coins than 3 or 4 years ago.
On one hand, I upgraded a stickered coin in MS 66 to MS 67 and he didn't sticker it as a 7. I thought it would get a 6 + and agreed that the coin wasn't all there for an MS 67.
However, I sent in an attractively toned New Orleans Barber Half in MS 65 that I got from Brandon Kelley many years ago, and it didn't sticker. I asked about it, and I was told that it didn't sticker because it had a weak strike. I still have a problem with this, because 90% of coins struck in New Orleans have weak strikes. Furthermore, I sent in a toned Seated Half in MS 65 that did get a CAC sticker.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Watched the video straight through and really found it enlightening.......thanks for sharing, David.
Very informative video.
Definitely and interesting video. I'm surprised it took him 2 looks on that MS67+ 1884 O morgan. I thought it was AT right away because of the super steep color gradients on it but he originally said he would have stickered it as a 66 until he looked at it again.
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I shared your thoughts about it.
The video was a great idea, informative and well edited by the person that handled it.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
That was definitely worth the 30 minutes, thanks for posting.
Another takeaway is that if a coin gets a grade bump for color, JA will still treat the coin as if was the original grade and not sticker it.
When coins started getting grade bumps for color, I jumped on an MS 66 Buffalo Nickel that was a 6 all day long but had truly amazing color. I got it upgraded to MS 67. Next time I'm at the safe deposit box, I'll see if I was able to get it stickered. I don't remember.
Like with grading, opinions change over time, and JA implied as much in this video re CAC. For me, this is the most frustrating thing about the hobby, though I get it.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Great video. I got to sit with him once while he explained to me why he did and did not sticker my coins. Invaluable experience!
Tom