Fred Weinberg Collection Coin Die at upcoming auction

Mr Lindy · April 12, 2022 3:01AM

Another fun FW item, Undated Continental Restrike Die

https://coins.ha.com/itm/so-called-dollars/tokens-and-medals/undated-continental-dollar-restrike-reverse-die-uncertified-from-the-fred-weinberg-collection/a/63183-91246.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

ricko · April 12, 2022 3:07AM

Very interesting... Does 'uncertified' mean that there is no traceable history available? Or only that it is not a U.S. Mint product? Cheers, RickO

MFeld · April 12, 2022 4:17AM

@ricko said:
Very interesting... Does 'uncertified' mean that there is no traceable history available? Or only that it is not a U.S. Mint product? Cheers, RickO

I believe "uncertified" means not professionally graded.

ricko · April 12, 2022 4:18AM

@MFeld.... Thanks Mark, I had thought of that possibility. Cheers, RickO

oih82w8 · April 12, 2022 5:26AM

That is just too cool!

NumisOxide · April 12, 2022 6:13AM

Way cool!! Definitely a Robert Bashlow die because the small s at the bottom. This reverse die was used to strike the silver "restrikes".

airplanenut · April 12, 2022 6:37AM

@MFeld said:

@ricko said:
Very interesting... Does 'uncertified' mean that there is no traceable history available? Or only that it is not a U.S. Mint product? Cheers, RickO

I believe "uncertified" means not professionally graded.

Just imagine the PCGS slab required to house that thing!

MedalCollector · April 12, 2022 6:47AM

@coinJP said:
Way cool!! Definitely a Robert Bashlow die because the small s at the bottom. This reverse die was used to strike the silver "restrikes".

Surprised this was not mentioned in the listing.

CaptHenway · April 12, 2022 7:39AM

@coinJP said:
Way cool!! Definitely a Robert Bashlow die because the small s at the bottom. This reverse die was used to strike the silver "restrikes".

Bingo!

Cameonut · April 12, 2022 9:03AM

Kind of coincidentally, I bought this at a show last fall and haven't got back to it to figure out how Baslow and Dickeson factor in. I did see a thread or post from @CaptHenway a while back but have not sorted out what I have. The silver piece does have the S.
Sorry for the unedited cell photos, they were taken in a hurry. Stickers on the holder were placed there by the dealer, no idea whether they are correct.
It would be kind of cool to own the reverse die.

NumisOxide · April 12, 2022 9:32AM

@Cameonut said:
Kind of coincidentally, I bought this at a show last fall and haven't got back to it to figure out how Baslow and Dickeson factor in. I did see a thread or post from @CaptHenway a while back but have not sorted out what I have. The silver piece does have the S.
Sorry for the unedited cell photos, they were taken in a hurry. Stickers on the holder were placed there by the dealer, no idea whether they are correct.
It would be kind of cool to own the reverse die.

Yes those are 1960s Bashlow restrikes.

Maywood · May 3, 2022 6:10AM

Un-freaking-believable, this die hammered at $102k with the juice!!!

MedalCollector · May 3, 2022 6:41AM

Is that a record price for a US medal die?

I also wonder whether we will see some restrikes of some sort.

jonathanb · May 3, 2022 6:49AM

It's unusual for exonumia of ANY type to sell for over 100K. I wonder if there's a story here. Could the buyer (and underbidder?) have thought that it was a 1776 original?

FredWeinberg · May 3, 2022 7:20AM

I was just stunned at the final price last night as everyone else – the listing clearly says restrike so I’m assuming that the buyer is going to use it to at least strike some more pieces - I was happy with the other dies that sold too -not just the defaced common dies, but some of the other dies I’ve accumulated over the past 40–50 years

Heritage certainly gets the “eyes“,!…… And the strong bids!

lilolme · May 3, 2022 7:45AM

@FredWeinberg said:
I was just stunned at the final price last night as everyone else – the listing clearly says restrike so I’m assuming that the buyer is going to use it to at least strike some more pieces - I was happy with the other dies that sold too -not just the defaced common dies, but some of the other dies I’ve accumulated over the past 40–50 years

Heritage certainly gets the “eyes“,!…… And the strong bids!

When I first saw these I was wondering how the defaced common dies would do since there were multiple examples. Glad it worked out.

Byers · May 3, 2022 7:51AM

U.S. dies are finally coming into their own…

jonathanb · May 3, 2022 8:14AM

@FredWeinberg said:
I was just stunned at the final price last night as everyone else – the listing clearly says restrike so I’m assuming that the buyer is going to use it to at least strike some more pieces

$100K is a lot to pay for a die to strike some more pieces. I bet that @dcarr could create a brand new die of matching quality for "a whole lot less".

I want to say that it was a bidding mistake, and someone is going to be unhappy. It's hard to explain two bidders at that level, though.

For comparison, Heritage sold an original silver Washington Before Boston medal last year for $99K. I count 12 other sales in the Tokens and Medals category at Heritage over $100K -- 5 Indian Peace Medals, 4 gold, and 3 Colonial-era pieces.

CaptHenway · May 3, 2022 8:22AM

@Maywood said:
Un-freaking-believable, this die hammered at $102k with the juice!!!

Great googely-moogely!

That is insane!

CaptHenway · May 3, 2022 8:24AM

@FredWeinberg said:
I was just stunned at the final price last night as everyone else – the listing clearly says restrike so I’m assuming that the buyer is going to use it to at least strike some more pieces - I was happy with the other dies that sold too -not just the defaced common dies, but some of the other dies I’ve accumulated over the past 40–50 years

Heritage certainly gets the “eyes“,!…… And the strong bids!

Fred, go out and buy yourself a lottery ticket!

RFagaly · May 3, 2022 9:45AM

What astounds me is that the cost for making new extremely high quality dies is under $2,000. I don't see any logic behind the idea of using this die to make restrikes and ever getting your money back. My only thought is that the buyer thought it was the original die for one of the 1776 Continental Dollars. A little research (e.g., Newman's "Colonial and Early American Coins") would have shown that this die was not an original.

telephoto1 · May 3, 2022 9:52AM

I think I heard Fred say drinks are on him at the next show...

FredWeinberg · May 3, 2022 1:38PM

Heritage has been getting a lot of feedback from that sale but they have assured me that the winning bidder is a client well known to them and it’s a legitimate bid

Maywood · May 3, 2022 2:05PM

To anyone who might not understand, the die can be traced to Bashlow/Bowers and their re-strikes simply because of the "S" MM at the bottom of the die. It's clearly visible so there was no deception and should have been no misunderstanding. It's quite historical for that reason alone, I was interested because it can be tied to those specific medals. When I first saw it I hoped it had a Provenance to Elder and then back to Dickeson, that would have been cool.

I think it just went to a specialty collector who appreciates it as much as I do and can afford that high price. Lest everyone forget, the final bid was at $85k(minus the juice) and at least one other bidder helped propel it to that level.

Congratulation, Fred!!

Broadstruck · May 3, 2022 2:09PM

WTG @FredWeinberg looks like you finally got made whole on that $4 Stella

CaptHenway · May 3, 2022 2:15PM

I can remember when an 1804 Dollar first sold for $100,000 and everybody got all excited...........

FredWeinberg · May 3, 2022 3:03PM

Thanks for that great thought Broadstruck -actually broke even and even made a bit
after the Stella cost!
It almost took four decades!

oreville · May 3, 2022 10:38PM

Fred,

Congratulations to you on the auction of your Continental restrike die! You deserve it!!

I wonder if it garnered more because of your provenance as the famed owner of that die or the Continental Dollar history itself?

Still holding onto your 1872 Carson City Mint cancelled die which suffered for so long in the ground in Carson City that I want it to enjoy continued retirement instead of putting it back to work creating restrikes. .

oreville · May 4, 2022 9:09AM

@Byers said:
U.S. dies are finally coming into their own…

@FredWeinberg said:
Thanks for that great thought Broadstruck -actually broke even and even made a bit
after the Stella cost!
It almost took four decades!

You were the winner in the long run.

oreville · May 4, 2022 9:11AM

@telephoto1 said:
I think I heard Fred say drinks are on him at the next show...

there goes the profit!

CaptHenway · May 4, 2022 10:12AM

@oreville said:
Fred,

Congratulations to you on the auction of your Continental restrike die! You deserve it!!

I wonder if it garnered more because of your provenance as the famed owner of that die or the Continental Dollar history itself?

Still holding onto your 1872 Carson City Mint cancelled die which suffered for so long in the ground in Carson City that I want it to enjoy continued retirement instead of putting it back to work creating restrikes. .

If Fred's c. 1961 Continental Dollar copy die is worth $102,000, then your 1872-CC Double eagle die should be worth:

fathom · May 4, 2022 10:48AM

A U.S. die would infer it is a government issue, not a private issue.

Over the moon price IMO.

Coinosaurus · May 4, 2022 10:51AM

Looks like we've officially entered "irrational exuberance" territory.

NumisOxide · May 4, 2022 1:34PM

Holey Moley!!! I was thinking $5,000-$10,000 tops. Congrats Fred!!

CaptHenway · May 5, 2022 6:08AM

If we assume that somebody bought it with intent to use it for more restrikes, say perhaps for the 2026 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, I wonder how many strikes it would be good for before it broke?

Fred Weinberg Collection Coin Die at upcoming auction

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