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Classic Silver Commemoratives on the rise again?
mrcommem
Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭✭
I just noticed the PCGS price guide shows some increase prices for Silver Commems. Is this the start of some interest in the series?
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mrcommem
Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭✭
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Finally after 30+ years. 🤣
Back in 1993 I thought I detected an uptick in prices listed in The Greysheet and thought "this is it!" I'm still waiting...
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Gorgeous Monroe.
If they are rising, it’s probably only because virtually everything is. They’ll have to do quite well just to keep up with inflation these days.
I've seen some higher asking prices, but still not sure that auction prices are up there yet.
My current "Box of 20"
Auction prices for classic silver commemoratives are most assuredly (way) up there on a percentage basis. But I believe that’s largely, if not mostly due to the strength of the market, in general.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Riding tide definitely lifting all boats.
It's good to have some signs of life
Biggest increase was Grant with Star. $2200 to $2600 in MS64. $4,250 to $5,000 in MS65.
I won't claim my earlier Grant Vs. Grant with Star survey on this board deserves credit for this increase.
Unfortunately, the MS 65 was $8,400 when I started my set back in 2002.
As one who put together a 50 coin Classic Type Set just a couple of years ago, I noticed that their pricing leveled off a few years ago, and started a slight rise around three years ago. Obviously, this is a generalization, as there are always exceptions.
However, how does one put a value on the pleasure of putting together a Type Set of this series, with its variety of designs (many of which are absolutely gorgeous) and fascinating history as one reads details about each coin!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Really?
I recently sold the 1949-P BTW in PCGS-MS67 (Bruce Scher) (02/7/22) for $870 including the fee to auction house. It last sold on 01/11/13 for $3,525 including the fee to auction house. Same holder, same serial number, same pedigree from the 2013 sale to the 2022 sale. Nearly 9 years in the same holder, same grade. It realized 24.6 cents on the dollar after a 9 year hold and this “hot market”. 😂
In the 2013 auction, the description read…
‘1949 50C Booker T. Washington MS67 PCGS Secure. Ex: Bruce Scher. Bruce Scher's silver commemorative type Registry Set is ranked #3 All-Time Finest, and was auctioned by Heritage in February 2005. The present Superb Gem half dollar exhibits dynamic cartwheel luster and light caramel-gold toning. Essentially pristine, though the cheek retains minor planchet striae, customary for the BTW type. Population: 11 in 67, 0 finer (12/12).(Registry values: N1793)”
I can not find that public auction price from February, 2005, but would like to know what it realized back in 2005 if anyone has that information. Then we would have a 17 year history on this coin spanning 3 separate auctions.
Wondercoin
How's the market for classic gold commemorative coins doing?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Yes, really. You gave one example of a (much) lower price and while you could probably provide others, the majority of the commemoratives I’ve watched, have increased significantly in value over the past several months.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@wondercoin , the OP was making a point that Commem prices have recently started to rise. My point above was similar, indicating in general a slight rise starting about three years ago. Using your real example of a nine year price history or a 17 year price history has nothing to do with the point the OP makes of recent price increases!
Absolutely no doubt the longer term pricing has been poor (at best).
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
That would be nice but not holding my breath! I'll have to keep an eye on prices and if they do go up a bit sell some of my duplicates...
K
Too many coins, too few collectors.
I also think there's movement with specific issues and grades and others, like Generalissimo Francisco Franco, are still dead!
That's an old SNL reference for you uncultured younguns.
The two pieces you posted are the "crem de la crem." When the "joe Six-pack" pieces start increasing in price, you can say that that the series is coming back.
I got my Iowa in MS-64 out of the bank for the weekend. It doesn't mount to much since the MS-67 pieces don't get much respect. Still I like the piece because it is attractive and the story of how these coins were distributed fairly instead of having them fall into the hands of a couple greedy dealers is interesting.
The “Joe six-pack” pieces HAVE been increasing in price - noticeably so. But as has already been mentioned, so have many other segments of the market. So it appears to be more about the overall market than about silver commemoratives, in particular.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That’s good because my old commemorative type set is way underwater financially.
While you're still underwater (and likely to stay there depending on when you purchased these beauties), the point of the OP is exactly correct. Here's two "Joe Six-Pack" examples from the PCGS Price Guide:
No one is saying these have performed well over time. We're just saying they leveled off about three years ago, and have started increasing in price, based on REAL WORLD auction sales since.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I could be partly responsible. Bought these two toners for multiples pf the price guide
Then got carried away due to COVID brain fog and bought the Wisconsin commem in a recent Heritage auction
I'm working hard on self control for the near term
“Toners” don’t count. Those coins have been selling for huge premiums for a few years.
The PCGS price guide is not where it is either. In the past, it has been the Grey Sheet.
I don't know the answer to this question, and lawyers always say don't ask a question where you don't know the answer, but I'll ask anyway, as I don't subscribe to the Grey Sheet:
For the very two common "Joe-Six-pack" coins I mentioned above, has the pricing been flat/down NOW compared to two or three years ago?
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I don’t see many plus marks on the Grey Sheet for the old commemoratives, except the keys, like Pan-PAC $50s and the Hawaiian half dollars.
I can only speak to results. 3 years ago, I was playing retail arbitrage with commems. I would buy them from Heritage, Stacks or GC and put them on eBay at Greysheet. They were routinely selling - including BP - for 20% back of Greysheet at those houses. I almost never bought anything in 67 or 68 because there was no value there. So, I was only buying 64 to 66 coins.
Right before the pandemic started, I still had about $20,000 in commems in inventory. Today, I have less than $5000 in inventory. I also haven't bought any commems in several months because they no longer sell for under Greysheet.
So, there has definitely been increased interest and pricing in the last 2 years. I would also say that the $10 to $20 increase in an Iowa commem is dwarfed by the increases in other segments, even widget segments. WHOLESALE price on F/better pre-1921 Morgans is $37.50 currently - which causes me to laugh every time someone gives a price estimate to a newbie asking about Dad's coins. And the price of generic 65 Morgans is double what it was pre-pandemic.
So, a rising tide lifts all boats - including classic commems - but not all boats rise equally.
I would also anticipate that any weakening of the market will hit commems harder than other segments.
It is unfortunate, as it is a really great series with a lot of interesting history.
I routinely view auction prices realized for multiple commemorative issues in most uncirculated grades. Overall, they are noticeably higher than they were a year ago and probably even compared to six months ago.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
But as asked, how do the current values for those two coins compare to three years ago?
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Apparently the coin was not considered significant enough to be included in Scher's 2005 main Heritage auction listing. Most likely it was delegated to the "back of the book."
Unfortunately, we had the entrance of the "+" grades and the populations increased from 11 in MS67, 0 finer to 44 in MS67, 5 finer The current auction record is for: $17,625.00 • PCGS MS67+ • 07/15/2021 • Legend Rare Coin Auctions. However, NGC MS67+ versions sold for much, much less.
The difficulty silver commemoratives have is their populations have exploded over time.
DisneyFan. I agree. I believe the increased populations were simply rising faster than the customer base to absorb them. Maybe that has changed recently and the momentum and trend is now heading in the opposite direction. And, if that is the case, I personally couldn’t be happier as I expect my son Justin (Monstercoinmart) to begin marketing a few million dollars in wonderful classic Commems before the end of this year (including likely selling many through major public auctions).
Wondercoin
I don’t know about price increases, but I have noticed the available inventory has dropped. At the start of the pandemic I started buying the gold dollars and quarter eagles. Plenty were available, fast forward two years and many are now difficult to find
I never did get a response to my question. How is the classic gold commemorative market doing these days? I'm primarily talking about the gold dollars and quarter eagles. What say you?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I just went through my collection on my computer using the Grey Sheet numbers. For the silver coins, it was a mixed bag. Some were up, others stayed the same and some went down since the last time I did that. The one comment I have is I can't believe how cheap the Isabella Quarter is on the Grey Sheet. I have an OGL MS-64 and it's only bid at $480.
The gold seems to be a bit stronger. Still the only "old commemoratives" I have that are doing well are the two Pan-Pac $50 gold pieces. They pull the rest of the collection out of the red.
I paid multiples for this one, been told it is one of the most stunning Oregon's in terms of tone. HST, had I valuated it before falling in love with it at the dealers table, I probably would have passed as it will take an unusual situation to recover cost. I was surprised tho' that CAC only gave me the green on it, for a 65 there is nary a mark, but was not gold stickered bc is does not have the luster of something in higher grade IMO. Not my best image, I need to reshoot to best capture the intrerplay between color and luster and get the right exposure (too bright in the center, too dark on the edges).
This Texas is in OGH with the bean and I got it for reasonable a few years ago in auction - no color bump to drive price up, just holder bump which is not much. Probably would recover costs if sold today.......
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
Doing a quick search, the four most recent PCGS 64’s that I found, sold last month for these reported prices: one at $515, two at $750 each and one at $780. The first one was sold on eBay and the other three, through major auction houses.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
And after you get done paying the auction houses and eBay, where does that leave you? Auctions are now the new retail for the areas where I collect.
I'm not an expert on classic gold commemoratives for the simple reason that they are easily found. I like coins that are difficult to find. In the latest update for a set of MS66s (which is completely out of my league) went from $614,700 to $615,800. The two $50 Panamas for $390,000 alone did not move at all.
Great Collections provides an Auction Archive. Check it out, compare the populations and prices to the silvers ,and let us know what you think. My though is they are lagging the market. The question is - are they undervalued or still overpriced.
As a fairly new collector, I have just started this set and am 7 coins in. Can't speak for other collectors or the market in general but for me this series is head and shoulders above collecting umpteen different Morgan or Lincoln or whatever variation. Every coin ranges from, at worst, interesting to, at best, gorgeous.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Bill, I was merely providing some recent results, after reading your post that said “The one comment I have is I can't believe how cheap the Isabella Quarter is on the Grey Sheet. I have an OGL MS-64 and it's only bid at $480.” I didn’t make any recommendations regarding buying, selling or where, for either.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Beautiful Oregon Trail; you have good reason to be proud of this classic commemorative.
Yea, Mark, you don’t like me. That’s been true for years. I don’t what I did to you, but you don’t like me. You work for Heritage. I have spent enough money there to be a legacy client. Can I ask you for some respect?
All I said was the bid for MS-64 the Isabella Quarter seemed low, and you come after me. I did not mention you. Why?
All I said was the bid for MS-64 the Isabella Quarter seemed low, and you come after me. I did not mention you. Why?
>
I didn’t “come after” you. I did some research and posted the results, to let you know that your Isabella Quarter was probably worth more than you seemed to think, based on the CDN price you mentioned. Your post and my reply are copied at the bottom of this post. Yet your reply to the information I provided was “And after you get done paying the auction houses and eBay, where does that leave you? Auctions are now the new retail for the areas where I collect.”
I give up.
@BillJones said:
I just went through my collection on my computer using the Grey Sheet numbers. For the silver coins, it was a mixed bag. Some were up, others stayed the same and some went down since the last time I did that. The one comment I have is I can't believe how cheap the Isabella Quarter is on the Grey Sheet. I have an OGL MS-64 and it's only bid at $480.
@MFeld said:
Doing a quick search, the four most recent PCGS 64’s that I found, sold last month for these reported prices: one at $515, two at $750 each and one at $780. The first one was sold on eBay and the other three, through major auction houses.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The way I look at it, especially after this weekend, auction results are the new retail.
This Isabella Quarter is in a holder with no CAC sticker. OGL might make a difference, but CAC is the factor that takes it over the line. The true quality of the coin is secondary to many,
A generic bright white Boone I have.
Do you ever get tired of snarking at CAC?
Asking for a friend...
Back in 2003, before I sold off at public auction the very first Hall of Fame PCGS Registry Set ever inducted into the PCGS HOF (Registrycoin’s 144 pc. Classic Commem collection), I made a deal with the owner to purchase outright his then #1 registry set of Texas Commems (now #4 as I have not sent the original coins back in to PCGS in a roughly a decade or much longer). I liked the busy design of that coin. Maybe it’s time to upgrade or buy a couple easy, inexpensive, coins for the set and get it back into the top 2 or 3 sets in the registry.
Wondercoin
I had a great time putting my set together over a 15 year span. I was lucky to have two commem legends that tutored and mentered me. I soaked up every word they said when discussing commems. I loved the tight group of guys we had. Nothing moved without us knowing about it. We knew everyones coins and backstories. It was a blast.
Anyways to the collector in this thread who is seven coins in congrats. I started to collect the 50 piece set all in 66+ to 68 with big color. I got to 39 and then stopped. There where 11 issues I really really really did not like. Plus it seems like some of these ugly coins cost the most when it came top grades. I just wouldn't go any further. I kept it for awhile to enjoy and then I decided to release these back in the hobby. I'm happy to see some of my coins with young collectors on IG etc
For anyone starting to collect a 50 piece set I would suggest you start with the older coins first. You get a 1892/3 date, you get the only $.25 and the only $1.00 and guess what? You get cool dates. Plus commems we're still in their infancy and no one had "screwed them " up yet. That comes in anorther 30 years. In the early set you get the Pan Pac, the Art Deco Monroe, Alabamas, Missouri, Oregons, California, Grant, Hugo, sesquicentennial, Pilgrims, Lexington, Vermont, Vancouver, St Mountain and Lincoln. If one were to stop right here he would genuinely have the most desirable and expensive issues covered. You got artistic coinage spanning 1892 to 1928.
Pause here for a second. If the passion is still running hot now go out and get those Arks, BTW's, Carvers, Yorks, Wisconsins etc. Your work is almost done. They will be much easier to find. You did all the heavy lifting with the 1892-1928 early date commems.
Here were some of my favorites and I do miss them:
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Might be promotors are accumulating for its centennial.
When working on the early set (Your cutoff was the year 1927), it's hard to resist both versions of the Alabama, Missouri, Grant, & Pilgrim. And don't forget the later Boone which comes with a single and two date version. While I see the picture of the 1928 Hawaiian, the 1935 Hudson and Old Spanish Trail keys should not be ignored.
Your comment, "There where 11 issues I really really really did not like. Plus it seems like some of these ugly coins cost the most when it came top grades. I just wouldn't go any further." Is why the 144 set concept is such a difficult sell. A date set is a nice compromise for those wanting to go beyond the 50 coin set.
Some silver with gold “highlights”. 😉
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.