Buying Morgan Dollars

aknow11 · January 19, 2022 6:36PM

I have a rudimentary question, I'm old fashioned and want to complete books of Morgan dollars. Where do the knowledgeable members buy such coins w/o cleaning, and w/o plastic certification holders? Is that still possible in 2022? I see amazing coins on Heritage auction sites, almost all PCGS certified. Thanks for your input.

MasonG · January 19, 2022 6:43PM

The more valuable the coin, the more likely it will be slabbed. Depending on what grades you're looking for, you may have to crack out some coins for your set.

BAJJERFAN · January 19, 2022 6:47PM

There is a former PCGS grader named Dale Williams who sells raw coins on eBay. I don't remember his eBay handle, but I'm sure that someone here will know it. He would be one source if you are looking for coins that haven't been messed with.

MsMorrisine · January 19, 2022 6:48PM

You’ll find cleaned and problem coins everywhere

The thing is to be knowledgeable enough to avoid the bad ones.

If you’re uncomfortable doing that, then it’s better to buy them in plastic and crack them out.

However, you’ll not want to crack out key and semi-key dates. It’s good to see them in plastic because you know it’s a real and problem free coin when buying and selling.

DNADave · January 19, 2022 6:49PM

Local coin shows would get you a long ways forwards on a Morgan album.

JimW · January 19, 2022 6:50PM

Buying problem free raw coins will require you to develop fairy strong grading skills, or work with reputable dealers (which might take some work to identify those folks - maybe others here can help with that). Otherwise, as @MasonG said, you'll likely need to buy slabbed coins and crack them out. And don't forget about authenticity - there are a fair number of fake Morgans out there...

CoinHoarder · January 19, 2022 6:56PM

Find a local coin dealer who will let you hand pick through their “cull” silver dollars. Many times you can find nice, problem free coins at reasonable prices. You can fill many holes in the set that way.

aknow11 · January 19, 2022 7:03PM

Thank you for the gracious and expert advice. I have tried coin shows, but haven't been too lucky. Since Covid, stuck w/ internet sales for time being. I appreciate the comments about authenticity, and slabs. They are hard to remove by the way.

scotty1419 · January 19, 2022 7:08PM

After you get through the easier common coins, it takes a lot of patience.

Especially right now I'm finding quality examples for less common dates/mints are very competitive and pricing seems to go above retail guides.

MsMorrisine · January 19, 2022 7:10PM

You plow through a bunch of culls and you’ll spend nearly all your time looking for a diamond in a box of glass crystals

CoinHoarder · January 19, 2022 7:11PM

Type2 · January 19, 2022 8:58PM

Yup what they said up top. And welcome to the nut house.

airplanenut · January 19, 2022 9:13PM

@MsMorrisine said:
You’ll find cleaned and problem coins everywhere

The thing is to be knowledgeable enough to avoid the bad ones.

If you’re uncomfortable doing that, then it’s better to buy them in plastic and crack them out.

This is really good advice, but I’d add that even in holders there is a range. If you define “not cleaned” as straight grades, then yes, buying slabbed fits the bill. But I’d still suggest looking for nice, original coins. Not every slabbed example is the same, and being patient and discerning will result in a much nicer set.

jmlanzaf · January 19, 2022 11:29PM

@aknow11 said:
Thank you for the gracious and expert advice. I have tried coin shows, but haven't been too lucky. Since Covid, stuck w/ internet sales for time being. I appreciate the comments about authenticity, and slabs. They are hard to remove by the way.

It's very easy if you have a vise.

ricko · January 20, 2022 7:35AM

@aknow11... Welcome aboard. If you went to a BIG coin show, you could likely find more Morgan dollars than you could carry home. I recommend you place a post on the Buy, Sell, Trade (BST) here, I am sure you will get lots of offers.... Cheers, RickO

moursund · January 20, 2022 8:19AM

@ricko said:
@aknow11... Welcome aboard. If you went to a BIG coin show, you could likely find more Morgan dollars than you could carry home.

.
.
I was just thinking, if I could carry 50 lb of morgan's, and I was going to buy inexpensive Morgan's for about $100 a piece, I would need something like $100,000. I'm not sure which would make me more nervous, carrying the $100,000 cash, or the ~thousand Morgan dollars!

ricko · January 20, 2022 8:21AM

@moursund.... I never worry about carrying cash - and frequently carry large amounts. Always have two .45's and spare mags as well. Cheers, RickO

moursund · January 20, 2022 8:24AM

@ricko said:
@moursund.... I never worry about carrying cash - and frequently carry large amounts. Always have two .45's and spare mags as well. Cheers, RickO

.
That is short-sighted. Those .45s and all that ammo is heavy. You won't be able to carry the huge pile of Morgan dollars... 🤔

ricko · January 20, 2022 8:26AM

@moursund.... I have people for that. Cheers, RickO

CoinHoarder · January 20, 2022 8:58AM

@aknow11 said:
I have a rudimentary question, I'm old fashioned and want to complete books of Morgan dollars. Where do the knowledgeable members buy such coins w/o cleaning, and w/o plastic certification holders? Is that still possible in 2022? I see amazing coins on Heritage auction sites, almost all PCGS certified. Thanks for your input.

What grades are you looking for?

1630Boston · January 20, 2022 9:33AM

@BAJJERFAN said:
There is a former PCGS grader named Dale Williams who sells raw coins on eBay. I don't remember his eBay handle, but I'm sure that someone here will know it. He would be one source if you are looking for coins that haven't been messed with.

Is this it @BAJJERFAN

Williams Gallery

Dale L. Williams
President

https://williamsgallery.com/pages/credentials

scotty1419 · January 20, 2022 10:25AM

@ricko said:
@aknow11... Welcome aboard. If you went to a BIG coin show, you could likely find more Morgan dollars than you could carry home. I recommend you place a post on the Buy, Sell, Trade (BST) here, I am sure you will get lots of offers.... Cheers, RickO

Have had very little luck on here with a Morgan WTB list...

BAJJERFAN · January 20, 2022 10:38AM

@1630Boston said:

@BAJJERFAN said:
There is a former PCGS grader named Dale Williams who sells raw coins on eBay. I don't remember his eBay handle, but I'm sure that someone here will know it. He would be one source if you are looking for coins that haven't been messed with.

Is this it @BAJJERFAN

Williams Gallery

Dale L. Williams
President

Williams Gallery, Inc. (CollectorUSA), founded in 1976
Member of:
Professional Numismatic Guild (PNG)
American Numismatic Association (ANA-Life Member)
Central States Numismatic Society (CSNS-LM)
Florida United Numismatists (FUN)
Numismatic Literary Guild (NLG)
Former Grader for Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS).
Bought and sold over $100,000,000 of rare coins
Author of numerous articles on numismatics for Coin World
Contributor to Physician's Planning Service's investment newsletters
One of only four firms recommended in Robert G. Allen'sCreating Wealth.
Accredited by Coin and Bullion Dealers Accreditation Program (CABDAP)
(one of the first 100 firms nationwide so honored.)
Taught numismatic classes and a frequent guest lecturer on coin investments.
Graduate of Ohio University's School of Business with honors.
Served with distinction in United States Air Force.
.
https://williamsgallery.com/pages/credentials

I believe so.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_dmd=2&iconV2Request=true&_ssn=coins-collectorusa&store_cat=0&store_name=collectorusastore&_oac=1

He used to have lots of raw coins on ebay IIRC. It's been several years since I did much coin searching on eBay however.

DelawareDoons · January 20, 2022 11:10AM

Accredited by Coin and Bullion Dealers Accreditation Program (CABDAP)

Food for thought;

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-05-05-9102090713-story.html

Type2 · January 20, 2022 11:48AM

I just go to shops, shows there are plenty of Morgan’s to look at. As for the big keys I would like to see them in hand if I’m spending big bucks.

jmlanzaf · January 20, 2022 11:55AM

@moursund said:

@ricko said:
@moursund.... I never worry about carrying cash - and frequently carry large amounts. Always have two .45's and spare mags as well. Cheers, RickO

.
That is short-sighted. Those .45s and all that ammo is heavy. You won't be able to carry the huge pile of Morgan dollars... 🤔

Worse, how do you pull your gat while holding the bag of Morgans?

ricko · January 20, 2022 11:59AM

@jmlanzaf .... As I said above, I have people to hold bags.... Cheers, RickO

jmlanzaf · January 20, 2022 11:59AM

@BAJJERFAN said:

@1630Boston said:

@BAJJERFAN said:
There is a former PCGS grader named Dale Williams who sells raw coins on eBay. I don't remember his eBay handle, but I'm sure that someone here will know it. He would be one source if you are looking for coins that haven't been messed with.

Is this it @BAJJERFAN

Williams Gallery

Dale L. Williams
President

Williams Gallery, Inc. (CollectorUSA), founded in 1976
Member of:
Professional Numismatic Guild (PNG)
American Numismatic Association (ANA-Life Member)
Central States Numismatic Society (CSNS-LM)
Florida United Numismatists (FUN)
Numismatic Literary Guild (NLG)
Former Grader for Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS).
Bought and sold over $100,000,000 of rare coins
Author of numerous articles on numismatics for Coin World
Contributor to Physician's Planning Service's investment newsletters
One of only four firms recommended in Robert G. Allen'sCreating Wealth.
Accredited by Coin and Bullion Dealers Accreditation Program (CABDAP)
(one of the first 100 firms nationwide so honored.)
Taught numismatic classes and a frequent guest lecturer on coin investments.
Graduate of Ohio University's School of Business with honors.
Served with distinction in United States Air Force.

He used to have lots of raw coins on ebay IIRC. It's been several years since I did much coin searching on eBay however.

Not for nothing, isn't someone's grading ability separate from their ethics. I can know a coin is cleaned and still sell it as "original". I can know a coin is a 63 and still list it as a "65 blazer".

[Not that I'm implying anything about this specific dealer. I don't know him. ]

BillJones · January 20, 2022 12:07PM

Even if you are collecting circulated pieces, the big concern is Chinese counterfeits. They are making everything, including the common date and mint mark combinations in the circulated grades. Most of these things don’t contain any silver although they can have a convincing look to them.

Be carful. Your best bet is to deal with honest, knowledgeable dealers, and you are better off if you buy the expensive key dates as certified coins. It’s just too risky to go the 100% raw coin route.

moursund · January 20, 2022 12:17PM

@ricko said:
@jmlanzaf .... As I said above, I have people to hold bags.... Cheers, RickO

Ok, but why do you want to carry two handguns and extra ammo? There you are on the bourse, and you see trouble a-brewing... What scenario do you envision that would benefit from having the reloads?
(Obviously, if you want to shoot somebody dead, and show that it was self-defense, having the 2nd gun can be handy... But that is bad form...)

ricko · January 20, 2022 12:35PM

Did the people in the Orlando night club expect trouble? Or the people in a business meeting in San Bernardino, CA? Or the people at a concert in Las Vegas? I am happy you can predict the future, nobody else can. As far as the second gun, I believe in the adage 'Two is one, one is none.'. Ask any cop, you can never have too much ammunition. I have mentioned before, I am highly trained, and I train people, even police. Cheers, RickO

BAJJERFAN · January 20, 2022 12:41PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

@1630Boston said:

@BAJJERFAN said:
There is a former PCGS grader named Dale Williams who sells raw coins on eBay. I don't remember his eBay handle, but I'm sure that someone here will know it. He would be one source if you are looking for coins that haven't been messed with.

Is this it @BAJJERFAN

Williams Gallery

Dale L. Williams
President

Williams Gallery, Inc. (CollectorUSA), founded in 1976
Member of:
Professional Numismatic Guild (PNG)
American Numismatic Association (ANA-Life Member)
Central States Numismatic Society (CSNS-LM)
Florida United Numismatists (FUN)
Numismatic Literary Guild (NLG)
Former Grader for Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS).
Bought and sold over $100,000,000 of rare coins
Author of numerous articles on numismatics for Coin World
Contributor to Physician's Planning Service's investment newsletters
One of only four firms recommended in Robert G. Allen'sCreating Wealth.
Accredited by Coin and Bullion Dealers Accreditation Program (CABDAP)
(one of the first 100 firms nationwide so honored.)
Taught numismatic classes and a frequent guest lecturer on coin investments.
Graduate of Ohio University's School of Business with honors.
Served with distinction in United States Air Force.

He used to have lots of raw coins on ebay IIRC. It's been several years since I did much coin searching on eBay however.

Not for nothing, isn't someone's grading ability separate from their ethics. I can know a coin is cleaned and still sell it as "original". I can know a coin is a 63 and still list it as a "65 blazer".

[Not that I'm implying anything about this specific dealer. I don't know him. ]

I'm not going to bother searching, but it was stated here some time ago that his coins generally graded out to what he advertised or claimed.

moursund · January 20, 2022 12:44PM

@BAJJERFAN said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

@1630Boston said:

@BAJJERFAN said:
There is a former PCGS grader named Dale Williams who sells raw coins on eBay. I don't remember his eBay handle, but I'm sure that someone here will know it. He would be one source if you are looking for coins that haven't been messed with.

Is this it @BAJJERFAN

Williams Gallery

Dale L. Williams
President

Williams Gallery, Inc. (CollectorUSA), founded in 1976
Member of:
Professional Numismatic Guild (PNG)
American Numismatic Association (ANA-Life Member)
Central States Numismatic Society (CSNS-LM)
Florida United Numismatists (FUN)
Numismatic Literary Guild (NLG)
Former Grader for Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS).
Bought and sold over $100,000,000 of rare coins
Author of numerous articles on numismatics for Coin World
Contributor to Physician's Planning Service's investment newsletters
One of only four firms recommended in Robert G. Allen'sCreating Wealth.
Accredited by Coin and Bullion Dealers Accreditation Program (CABDAP)
(one of the first 100 firms nationwide so honored.)
Taught numismatic classes and a frequent guest lecturer on coin investments.
Graduate of Ohio University's School of Business with honors.
Served with distinction in United States Air Force.

He used to have lots of raw coins on ebay IIRC. It's been several years since I did much coin searching on eBay however.

Not for nothing, isn't someone's grading ability separate from their ethics. I can know a coin is cleaned and still sell it as "original". I can know a coin is a 63 and still list it as a "65 blazer".

[Not that I'm implying anything about this specific dealer. I don't know him. ]

I'm not going to bother searching, but it was stated here some time ago that his coins generally graded out to what he advertised or claimed.

Thanks for trying to bring this thread back on topic... I was going into the weeds with @ricko carrying way too much ammunition...

Swampboy · January 20, 2022 12:47PM

@aknow11 said:
Thank you for the gracious and expert advice. I have tried coin shows, but haven't been too lucky. Since Covid, stuck w/ internet sales for time being. I appreciate the comments about authenticity, and slabs. They are hard to remove by the way.

Good luck with the hunt and

Removing coins from slabs isn't that hard at all. It's a very easy technique to learn and you can get it right from the start. A search here will have some threads on the topic but really all you need is a pair of Channellock 337 dikes (or anything remotely similar), a nip at 3 o'clock and nine o'clock and you're in like Flynn.

moursund · January 20, 2022 12:50PM

@Swampboy said:

@aknow11 said:
Thank you for the gracious and expert advice. I have tried coin shows, but haven't been too lucky. Since Covid, stuck w/ internet sales for time being. I appreciate the comments about authenticity, and slabs. They are hard to remove by the way.

Good luck with the hunt and

Removing coins from slabs isn't that hard at all. It's a very easy technique to learn and you can get it right from the start. A search here will have some threads on the topic but really all you need is a pair of Channellock 337 dikes (or anything remotely similar), a nip at 3 o'clock and nine o'clock and you're in like Flynn.

Unless it is a fatty slab (soap bar?). I had a devil of a time with one of those.

Swampboy · January 20, 2022 12:58PM

@moursund said:

Unless it is a fatty slab (soap bar?). I had a devil of a time with one of those.

Your issue with this technique notwithstanding, I was given this advice when I came onboard this forum by a late member from Kent WA and it's worked every time for me.

Type2 · January 20, 2022 1:05PM

Just use tile nips or you can do this way, Lol I don’t recommend it.

Swampboy · January 20, 2022 1:22PM

@Type2 said:
Just use tile nips or you can do this way, Lol I don’t recommend it.

Love it
I'll try that lol

CoinHoarder · January 20, 2022 1:26PM

If a person wants to collect lower grade Morgans, and they are worried about counterfeits or details coins, they can buy low grade certified coins. They can usually be obtained for just a few dollars more than raw "culls". Then if they want, they can safely crack them out and put then in the folder of their choice. I would never crack out a certified coin myself. But, to each their own.

I travel light. If I carry too much weight on me, my pants will fall down!

moursund · January 20, 2022 1:26PM

@Type2 that technique is great, but my ms63 1916d dime just fell through the floorboards... D'OH!

moursund · January 20, 2022 1:32PM

@CoinHoarder I notice the "Made in China". Does that apply to the slab or just to the coin?

CoinHoarder · January 20, 2022 1:34PM

@moursund said:
@CoinHoarder I notice the "Made in China". Does that apply to the slab or just to the coin?

Good point! Maybe it's not such a good idea after all.

1630Boston · January 20, 2022 1:44PM

Type2 · January 20, 2022 2:16PM

Well if you see me packing this one don’t make any sudden moves. I’ll shoot your eye out… 😉

moursund · January 20, 2022 3:23PM

Ok, so is this a miniature Thompson submachine gun?

CoinHoarder · January 20, 2022 5:07PM

@Type2 said:
Just use tile nips or you can do this way, Lol I don’t recommend it.

I think Lord Marcovan might have done this. But, not sure.

jmlanzaf · January 20, 2022 5:24PM

@BAJJERFAN said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

@1630Boston said:

@BAJJERFAN said:
There is a former PCGS grader named Dale Williams who sells raw coins on eBay. I don't remember his eBay handle, but I'm sure that someone here will know it. He would be one source if you are looking for coins that haven't been messed with.

Is this it @BAJJERFAN

Williams Gallery

Dale L. Williams
President

Williams Gallery, Inc. (CollectorUSA), founded in 1976
Member of:
Professional Numismatic Guild (PNG)
American Numismatic Association (ANA-Life Member)
Central States Numismatic Society (CSNS-LM)
Florida United Numismatists (FUN)
Numismatic Literary Guild (NLG)
Former Grader for Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS).
Bought and sold over $100,000,000 of rare coins
Author of numerous articles on numismatics for Coin World
Contributor to Physician's Planning Service's investment newsletters
One of only four firms recommended in Robert G. Allen'sCreating Wealth.
Accredited by Coin and Bullion Dealers Accreditation Program (CABDAP)
(one of the first 100 firms nationwide so honored.)
Taught numismatic classes and a frequent guest lecturer on coin investments.
Graduate of Ohio University's School of Business with honors.
Served with distinction in United States Air Force.

He used to have lots of raw coins on ebay IIRC. It's been several years since I did much coin searching on eBay however.

Not for nothing, isn't someone's grading ability separate from their ethics. I can know a coin is cleaned and still sell it as "original". I can know a coin is a 63 and still list it as a "65 blazer".

[Not that I'm implying anything about this specific dealer. I don't know him. ]

I'm not going to bother searching, but it was stated here some time ago that his coins generally graded out to what he advertised or claimed.

As I said. I know nothing about that dealer. But it just seems like we could have given him a list of ethical dealers, ignoring prior job experience.

moursund · January 20, 2022 5:31PM

@CoinHoarder said:

@Type2 said:
Just use tile nips or you can do this way, Lol I don’t recommend it.

I think Lord Marcovan might have done this. But, not sure.

.
.

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. The person in the video is an experienced clinician.
Note the 'Lab Test' to verify the result...

1630Boston · January 20, 2022 5:39PM

@jmlanzaf said:

But it just seems like we could have given him a list of ethical dealers, ignoring prior job experience.

Sorry,
I edited my post trying to help

Che_Grapes · January 20, 2022 6:13PM

Back to the topic
The big problem with raw coins on the internet is they typically have hairlines that you cannot see in photos.
It’s very important especially with peace dollars to be able to know how to see these because that will trigger a details grade cleaned. Polishing lines are okay though, and can be mistaken for scratches so it is important to see the coin in person to be sure it was never cleaned. Id say out of 5 coins I have bought raw online maybe 1 or 2 graded within expectations. And I was buying them mostly from coin shops that have an eBay store! I don’t buy them raw anymore on eBay only in person at a shop or shows - collector corner is good too but they only sell certified coins (I think) - best of luck to you

BAJJERFAN · January 21, 2022 8:44AM

@jmlanzaf said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

@1630Boston said:

@BAJJERFAN said:
There is a former PCGS grader named Dale Williams who sells raw coins on eBay. I don't remember his eBay handle, but I'm sure that someone here will know it. He would be one source if you are looking for coins that haven't been messed with.

Is this it @BAJJERFAN

Williams Gallery

Dale L. Williams
President

Williams Gallery, Inc. (CollectorUSA), founded in 1976
Member of:
Professional Numismatic Guild (PNG)
American Numismatic Association (ANA-Life Member)
Central States Numismatic Society (CSNS-LM)
Florida United Numismatists (FUN)
Numismatic Literary Guild (NLG)
Former Grader for Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS).
Bought and sold over $100,000,000 of rare coins
Author of numerous articles on numismatics for Coin World
Contributor to Physician's Planning Service's investment newsletters
One of only four firms recommended in Robert G. Allen'sCreating Wealth.
Accredited by Coin and Bullion Dealers Accreditation Program (CABDAP)
(one of the first 100 firms nationwide so honored.)
Taught numismatic classes and a frequent guest lecturer on coin investments.
Graduate of Ohio University's School of Business with honors.
Served with distinction in United States Air Force.

He used to have lots of raw coins on ebay IIRC. It's been several years since I did much coin searching on eBay however.

Not for nothing, isn't someone's grading ability separate from their ethics. I can know a coin is cleaned and still sell it as "original". I can know a coin is a 63 and still list it as a "65 blazer".

[Not that I'm implying anything about this specific dealer. I don't know him. ]

I'm not going to bother searching, but it was stated here some time ago that his coins generally graded out to what he advertised or claimed.

As I said. I know nothing about that dealer. But it just seems like we could have given him a list of ethical dealers, ignoring prior job experience.

If anyone wants to start a list be my guest.

Buying Morgan Dollars

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