@ReadyFireAim said:
After obsessing over pop reports, price guides & registry sets, I'm guessing there are less than 100 collectors with million dollar budgets that collect saints.
Other than having fewer holes in their collections, they are exactly the same.
Out of almost 8 billion people in the world, that's a pretty small number.
How do you define a budget? Someone might be fully invested in the stock market with lots of dollars but he/she is cash poor unless they liquidate positions.
maybe they live off their dividends and ss
As for me if I lost my entire coin collection
( which is fairly substantial at least for me) as in 0 , nada, total write off ... I would still have earned income and securities investments to live on .
In other words buying coins has always been a hobby and if lose money , oh well, it’s a tax loss against other gains 😊
I have collected coins for many years. I do not sell coins (though I did sell some British gold at the high point a few years ago). I am sure some of my coins have gained value, and others have lost. For me, it is a hobby, and coins are obtained with disposable income for personal enjoyment. Much like some people collect cars, or drink, or other pursuits that interest people. I know for a fact that many of my firearms have gained significant value over the years. Likely more than my coins. Cheers, RickO
When I buy a nice bottle of single malt I savor it and enjoy it. I don’t buy it to look at the bottle and never try it only to hope to sell it at some point.
In one sense coins are better because I can buy them and enjoy owning them and when I don’t want it anymore I can sell it and get something back. I am not counting on breaking even or making a profit but will still end up with more than an empty bottle which is just discarded.
@Gazes said:
Certainly one of the most common pieces of advice on this forum is that you should not buy a coin or coins as an investment. Honestly, I am not sure anyone argues that coins offer a better return than stocks.
So here is my question----why do people buy five figure coins? Or 6 figure coins or more?
The same reason that people will spend high five figures or six figures for a BMW, Mercedes Benz, Maserati, Bentley, or Rolls Royce: They like them and derive pleasure or fascination with them.
@Gazes said:
Certainly one of the most common pieces of advice on this forum is that you should not buy a coin or coins as an investment. Honestly, I am not sure anyone argues that coins offer a better return than stocks.
So here is my question----why do people buy five figure coins? Or 6 figure coins or more?
The same reason that people will spend high five figures or six figures for a BMW, Mercedes Benz, Maserati, Bentley, or Rolls Royce: They like them and derive pleasure or fascination with them.
This is true. Every time I sit in my 440i and put it in sport mode, look out. So much fun to drive.
Some people may like looking at brokerage statements, but most would rather look at collection of classic cars, art, private jets, yachts, coins etc...
Collectibles are assets for accounting purposes, but are actually just an enjoyable way to park money with some expected residual value.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
A lot of our friends belong to a country club. They pay six figures every year on their memberships plus a big sloppy initiation fee. At the end of twenty years or so they will only have the memories and nothing else to show for it . This is their hobby.
For me I'll have my coins and will eventuality sell them off. I may come out ahead. I may come out even. I may come out behind. But I will come out with something PLUS the enjoyment of the hobby and the ride
Besides we aren't country club types. But I do like being a guest every once in awhile
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
A lot of our friends belong to a country club. They pay six figures every year on their memberships plus a big sloppy initiation fee. At the end of twenty years or so they will only have the memories a d nothing else to show for it. This is their hobby.
For me I'll have my coins and will eventuality sell them off. I may come out ahead. I may come out even. I may come out behind. But I will come out with something PLUS the enjoyment of the hobby and the ride
Besides we aren't country club types. But I do like being a guest every once in awhile
m
Reminds me of the (really) old Woody Allen joke about how he and his wife were going to take a Hawaiian vacation, but decided to get a divorce instead, because the vacation is over in two weeks, but a divorce is something you'll always have.
Besides we aren't country club types. But I do like being a guest every once in awhile
m
Boy, something about what you said really brought back some memories. I feel much the same way. We are absolutely not the sort of folks that would join a country club, but we have fond memories of some New England Clam bake parties we got invited to in Massachusetts.... bacon-wrapped scallops to die for!
I buy mostly 3-4 figure coins, but I do have a couple of 5 figure coins. As @ricko said, I buy these coins with disposable income as you would use for a vacation or a summer home or whatever you like to do for enjoyment. All the coins I've bought (whether 3 or 5 figure) are for the pure enjoyment of my hobby. As @Justacommeman said, regardless of what we get (monetarily), in the end we have all the years of enjoyment and even a little something (tangible) to show for it.
Not an investment for me , just offers me a lot of fun on mediocre coins and currency. I also enjoy the shows, this forum and the search for something special now and then. Truly a rewarding hobby but I wouldn’t bank on making any money off of it.
As most said, usually its to complete a collection. My reasons, were when I was a younger collector, I could not afford the key date coins on many of the sets I tried assembling, so in later years, I tried to find those key dates in the best possible grades I could obtain. That is the reason I spent 40k on 01-s quarter in au, or 18k for 21-s half in 58, and so forth. Its was the enjoyment of owning them, not for show, as I kept my collection secured away and stayed away from registry hoopla.
Being only from avg financial means, there were many I would have liked to own, but could not. I dont buy junk, or really low grade stuff just to fill a hole.
After selling most the past year, I did get a decent return on some, not all, but it avg'd out
My most expensive coins were purchased because I like matching states of preservation when putting together a set. There’s always a couple of them you have to stretch for if you want them to match the more affordable ones. But then again I don’t have any 5 figure ones, yet…
@DisneyFan said:
I found this thread from nine months ago basically stating coins are not an investment. Would the original posters say that today?
I would. An "investment" is not determined by whether something went up or down. It's about time horizon, beta, etc. Viewed as an investment, you shouldn't buy what you like to look at, you should only buy what you think will go up. That's not what people do with collectibles (for the most part).
Interesting thread. Individuals' reasons vary I'm sure, but it's fairly ordinary financial advice in many quarters to have 5-10% of one's net worth in tangible assets as part of a diversified portfolio; it's not a giant leap for a person who knows about coins and likes collecting them in the first place to make their collection occupy that niche as opposed to, say, a pile of generic bullion. For me that doesn't mean buying five-figure coins, but if my income and/or net worth were larger it might. I don't view my collection as an investment but it is definitely a store of value, and I don't buy anything unless it both answers to my collecting intentions and appears to me to be a good candidate for holding its value or appreciating. I'm awaiting my only numismatic purchase of 2021 right now, and what prompted me to shop for a coin was literally the realization that there's some spare money that I need to find something to do with that isn't cash, a bond fund, or anything in the equities markets. With 16 things on my long-range want list, why not buy one then?
I believe in my case it is an addiction. I use to have a moniker of coin junkie, but lost it for some reason. I know stocks are better, but I just love to buy certain coins. I have the funds to do both, but would have made real money if I was in just stocks. I love the thrill of the hunt and pride of ownership.
So here is my question----why do people buy five figure coins? Or 6 figure coins or more?
Short answer: Because those are the coins that will easily triple in value over the next ten years.
Long answer: @jmlanzaf - as many have said including yourself, coins are not a very smart or viable investment compared to a mutual fund etc.
And obviously that applies more to the 2, 3, and 4 figure coin buyers.
But I would argue that even those smaller figure coins will hold or even increase over time. Barring some of the more notable loses over the past two decades.
Lincoln’s come to mind for me as I came in after they’ve already decreased massively. I can only imagine the heartache for some yet I am poised to win.
@CoinscratchFever said: So here is my question----why do people buy five figure coins? Or 6 figure coins or more?
Short answer: Because those are the coins that will easily triple in value over the next ten years.
Long answer: @jmlanzaf - as many have said including yourself, coins are not a very smart or viable investment compared to a mutual fund etc.
And obviously that applies more to the 2, 3, and 4 figure coin buyers.
But I would argue that even those smaller figure coins will hold or even increase over time. Barring some of the more notable loses over the past two decades.
Lincoln’s come to mind for me as I came in after they’ve already decreased massively. I can only imagine the heartache for some yet I am poised to win.
And yet the vast majority of coins have not held value over the last 20 or 30 years in either nominal or real terms
Collectors of anything, art, autos, coins, stamps, etc. are so divergent that many non wealthy collectors own picasso's, diablo's, 1795 Flowing Hair Dollars for example, and Wright Brothers Stamps. Their reasoning is their own, beauty, collecting status, value, and reasons unfathomable by many. Obviously, this group does have purchasing limits but 4 digit to 6 digit costs are obviously attainable. Different strokes for different folks.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
In looking at the PCGS 3000 graph from say 89 it’s obvious the trend for most part not very favorable from that point in time especially considering inflation and transaction costs. One can draw own conclusions from the trend line. When looking over Laibstains 1994 book on Commems recently showing much higher values on many than today recently its a foregone conclusion for me before any debate here which I have no desire to enter.
All one can do is move forward with the strategy they have.
Because the joy that the purchase, ownership, opportunity to examine and show the coin and talk about the coin, exceeds (is viewed favorably towards) the eventual cost. I would think most people buying these type of coins understand the likely residual value or opportunity for appreciation and they are comfortable with that cost versus other options.
Very well put @SimpleCollector
Some people I work with spend$20 on lunch and $50 on dinner every day, eating out, [that's $25,000.00 per year].
I rarely eat lunch and when I do it may be a peanut butter sandwich, which I enjoy.
IMO:
I believe that many collect to have the best collection ever.
Many only want a single type coin as long as it is a #1.
Others like to complete sets and see how they fare against the tops sets.
>
Coin purchases in the 5 figure range can very well be (but not necessarily) a speculation / investment coin in which the owner will sell at a higher premium if they can do so. I do love to see these coins when they are shared and displayed.
>
I am not able to do this type of "investment".
A 4 figure purchase (on the low side) is the best that I can do and very rarely even though I would like to.
My set rankings drop because the upgrades that I need start at over 2K. I am not complaining.
It is part of the game.
>
I collect as I enjoy the research and the thrill of the hunt.
Since I do not sell coins, there is no investment concerns for me.
Some family member(s) will enjoy their inheritance.
Wayne
I almost look at coins as if they are pieces of art, that can, if chosen wisely, appreciate very well. The investment aspect is constantly involved. Why would you want to throw money at something like a coin and not want the value to go up at least modestly over time?
Paid $600 for an MS65 Peace from a dealer 3 months and sold it for $1200 today to a collector. Coin collecting can absolutely be an investment or a great way of trading but you have to be very knowledgeable about the coins you buy, the correct price entry point, and the collector demand.
@Doubledieanotherday said:
I almost look at coins as if they are pieces of art, that can, if chosen wisely, appreciate very well. The investment aspect is constantly involved. Why would you want to throw money at something like a coin and not want the value to go up at least modestly over time?
Why would you want to throw money at golf and not make a profit?
@HoldTheMayo said:
Paid $600 for an MS65 Peace from a dealer 3 months and sold it for $1200 today to a collector. Coin collecting can absolutely be an investment or a great way of trading but you have to be very knowledgeable about the coins you buy, the correct price entry point, and the collector demand.
I have a healthy amount in equities, real estate, my business, and even in cash. I don't believe in debt. I collect mostly gold coins, which I mentally value at spot. I know those coins are worth more than spot, but I sleep well knowing if everything goes to hell, I have my paid for properties and a collection that is better than (fiat) cash.
I also have a membership in one of those clubs an earlier poster was mentioning, but the value there (at least in my community) is in the social interaction.
@DisneyFan said:
I found this thread from nine months ago basically stating coins are not an investment. Would the original posters say that today?
The big movers in saints are "jump-coins"
1/2 grade below that & everything has pretty much doubled over the last 3 years.
One full grade below jump-coins has seen a modest 25%-50%
Not bad...I'm happy.
BTW...The 1929 in MS64 only went up 5K in value. (rare date/low grade doesn't seem to have moved much)
Comments
+1
Bitcoin can have a much better return than many stocks
I have collected coins for many years. I do not sell coins (though I did sell some British gold at the high point a few years ago). I am sure some of my coins have gained value, and others have lost. For me, it is a hobby, and coins are obtained with disposable income for personal enjoyment. Much like some people collect cars, or drink, or other pursuits that interest people. I know for a fact that many of my firearms have gained significant value over the years. Likely more than my coins.
Cheers, RickO
When I buy a nice bottle of single malt I savor it and enjoy it. I don’t buy it to look at the bottle and never try it only to hope to sell it at some point.
In one sense coins are better because I can buy them and enjoy owning them and when I don’t want it anymore I can sell it and get something back. I am not counting on breaking even or making a profit but will still end up with more than an empty bottle which is just discarded.
The same reason that people will spend high five figures or six figures for a BMW, Mercedes Benz, Maserati, Bentley, or Rolls Royce: They like them and derive pleasure or fascination with them.
This is true. Every time I sit in my 440i and put it in sport mode, look out. So much fun to drive.
Some people may like looking at brokerage statements, but most would rather look at collection of classic cars, art, private jets, yachts, coins etc...
Collectibles are assets for accounting purposes, but are actually just an enjoyable way to park money with some expected residual value.
Here is how I look at it.
It's a hobby I love. I have many.
A lot of our friends belong to a country club. They pay six figures every year on their memberships plus a big sloppy initiation fee. At the end of twenty years or so they will only have the memories and nothing else to show for it . This is their hobby.
For me I'll have my coins and will eventuality sell them off. I may come out ahead. I may come out even. I may come out behind. But I will come out with something PLUS the enjoyment of the hobby and the ride
Besides we aren't country club types. But I do like being a guest every once in awhile
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Reminds me of the (really) old Woody Allen joke about how he and his wife were going to take a Hawaiian vacation, but decided to get a divorce instead, because the vacation is over in two weeks, but a divorce is something you'll always have.
Boy, something about what you said really brought back some memories. I feel much the same way. We are absolutely not the sort of folks that would join a country club, but we have fond memories of some New England Clam bake parties we got invited to in Massachusetts.... bacon-wrapped scallops to die for!
I buy mostly 3-4 figure coins, but I do have a couple of 5 figure coins. As @ricko said, I buy these coins with disposable income as you would use for a vacation or a summer home or whatever you like to do for enjoyment. All the coins I've bought (whether 3 or 5 figure) are for the pure enjoyment of my hobby. As @Justacommeman said, regardless of what we get (monetarily), in the end we have all the years of enjoyment and even a little something (tangible) to show for it.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
Not an investment for me , just offers me a lot of fun on mediocre coins and currency. I also enjoy the shows, this forum and the search for something special now and then. Truly a rewarding hobby but I wouldn’t bank on making any money off of it.
Over the years I have heard many make this argument ... they just happen to be the ones selling coins.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I found this thread from nine months ago basically stating coins are not an investment. Would the original posters say that today?
As most said, usually its to complete a collection. My reasons, were when I was a younger collector, I could not afford the key date coins on many of the sets I tried assembling, so in later years, I tried to find those key dates in the best possible grades I could obtain. That is the reason I spent 40k on 01-s quarter in au, or 18k for 21-s half in 58, and so forth. Its was the enjoyment of owning them, not for show, as I kept my collection secured away and stayed away from registry hoopla.
Being only from avg financial means, there were many I would have liked to own, but could not. I dont buy junk, or really low grade stuff just to fill a hole.
After selling most the past year, I did get a decent return on some, not all, but it avg'd out
My most expensive coins were purchased because I like matching states of preservation when putting together a set. There’s always a couple of them you have to stretch for if you want them to match the more affordable ones. But then again I don’t have any 5 figure ones, yet…
Mr_Spud
I would. An "investment" is not determined by whether something went up or down. It's about time horizon, beta, etc. Viewed as an investment, you shouldn't buy what you like to look at, you should only buy what you think will go up. That's not what people do with collectibles (for the most part).
Because if you made $10mil and will pay taxes to the gov you may as well buy a pice of art or a coin or give it to charity then send them a ck.
Hoard the keys.
Interesting thread. Individuals' reasons vary I'm sure, but it's fairly ordinary financial advice in many quarters to have 5-10% of one's net worth in tangible assets as part of a diversified portfolio; it's not a giant leap for a person who knows about coins and likes collecting them in the first place to make their collection occupy that niche as opposed to, say, a pile of generic bullion. For me that doesn't mean buying five-figure coins, but if my income and/or net worth were larger it might. I don't view my collection as an investment but it is definitely a store of value, and I don't buy anything unless it both answers to my collecting intentions and appears to me to be a good candidate for holding its value or appreciating. I'm awaiting my only numismatic purchase of 2021 right now, and what prompted me to shop for a coin was literally the realization that there's some spare money that I need to find something to do with that isn't cash, a bond fund, or anything in the equities markets. With 16 things on my long-range want list, why not buy one then?
I believe in my case it is an addiction. I use to have a moniker of coin junkie, but lost it for some reason. I know stocks are better, but I just love to buy certain coins. I have the funds to do both, but would have made real money if I was in just stocks. I love the thrill of the hunt and pride of ownership.
So here is my question----why do people buy five figure coins? Or 6 figure coins or more?
Short answer: Because those are the coins that will easily triple in value over the next ten years.
Long answer: @jmlanzaf - as many have said including yourself, coins are not a very smart or viable investment compared to a mutual fund etc.
And obviously that applies more to the 2, 3, and 4 figure coin buyers.
But I would argue that even those smaller figure coins will hold or even increase over time. Barring some of the more notable loses over the past two decades.
Lincoln’s come to mind for me as I came in after they’ve already decreased massively. I can only imagine the heartache for some yet I am poised to win.
Why does somebody buy a yacht or luxury car?
Should I applaud somebody who bought one of the above - nope. Or spent a small fortune on a coin - nope. Does the seller?
To each his own. Live and let live.
Are coins an investment? Well the taxman may think so…..when you sell one.
And yet the vast majority of coins have not held value over the last 20 or 30 years in either nominal or real terms
Collectors of anything, art, autos, coins, stamps, etc. are so divergent that many non wealthy collectors own picasso's, diablo's, 1795 Flowing Hair Dollars for example, and Wright Brothers Stamps. Their reasoning is their own, beauty, collecting status, value, and reasons unfathomable by many. Obviously, this group does have purchasing limits but 4 digit to 6 digit costs are obviously attainable. Different strokes for different folks.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
In looking at the PCGS 3000 graph from say 89 it’s obvious the trend for most part not very favorable from that point in time especially considering inflation and transaction costs. One can draw own conclusions from the trend line. When looking over Laibstains 1994 book on Commems recently showing much higher values on many than today recently its a foregone conclusion for me before any debate here which I have no desire to enter.
All one can do is move forward with the strategy they have.
Very well put @SimpleCollector
Some people I work with spend$20 on lunch and $50 on dinner every day, eating out, [that's $25,000.00 per year].
I rarely eat lunch and when I do it may be a peanut butter sandwich, which I enjoy.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
IMO:
I believe that many collect to have the best collection ever.
Many only want a single type coin as long as it is a #1.
Others like to complete sets and see how they fare against the tops sets.
>
Coin purchases in the 5 figure range can very well be (but not necessarily) a speculation / investment coin in which the owner will sell at a higher premium if they can do so. I do love to see these coins when they are shared and displayed.
>
I am not able to do this type of "investment".
A 4 figure purchase (on the low side) is the best that I can do and very rarely even though I would like to.
My set rankings drop because the upgrades that I need start at over 2K. I am not complaining.
It is part of the game.
>
I collect as I enjoy the research and the thrill of the hunt.
Since I do not sell coins, there is no investment concerns for me.
Some family member(s) will enjoy their inheritance.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
I almost look at coins as if they are pieces of art, that can, if chosen wisely, appreciate very well. The investment aspect is constantly involved. Why would you want to throw money at something like a coin and not want the value to go up at least modestly over time?
Paid $600 for an MS65 Peace from a dealer 3 months and sold it for $1200 today to a collector. Coin collecting can absolutely be an investment or a great way of trading but you have to be very knowledgeable about the coins you buy, the correct price entry point, and the collector demand.
Why would you want to throw money at golf and not make a profit?
We can that coin dealing not collecting.
I have a healthy amount in equities, real estate, my business, and even in cash. I don't believe in debt. I collect mostly gold coins, which I mentally value at spot. I know those coins are worth more than spot, but I sleep well knowing if everything goes to hell, I have my paid for properties and a collection that is better than (fiat) cash.
I also have a membership in one of those clubs an earlier poster was mentioning, but the value there (at least in my community) is in the social interaction.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
.
The big movers in saints are "jump-coins"
1/2 grade below that & everything has pretty much doubled over the last 3 years.
One full grade below jump-coins has seen a modest 25%-50%
Not bad...I'm happy.
BTW...The 1929 in MS64 only went up 5K in value. (rare date/low grade doesn't seem to have moved much)
My Saint Set