Restoration questions_ Tru View is in

gumby1234 · November 22, 2021 9:57AM

I have a coin on its way to PCGS that is in a PCGS holder. Its going for restoration because it developed a tiny amount of PVC over the years. Is this coin guaranteed to grade at least what the current grade is or could it be downgraded after restoration? Also if it did get downgraded is it covered by the PCGS grade guarantee?

WAYNEAS · November 22, 2021 10:00AM

Great question.
Will wait for the responses as I have not sent a coin in to be restored.
Wayne

lablover · November 22, 2021 10:10AM

From the PCGS Restoration page:

"Submitting a coin for PCGS Restoration in no way guarantees the upgrade of your coin. If the coin is already in a PCGS holder, it is guaranteed not to downgrade, nothing more. Through our restoration service, PCGS is committed to preserving and restoring coins to their original and natural condition."

gumby1234 · November 22, 2021 10:19AM

Great. @lablover Just don't want a downgrade.

WAYNEAS · November 22, 2021 10:19AM

@lablover said:
From the PCGS Restoration page:

"Submitting a coin for PCGS Restoration in no way guarantees the upgrade of your coin. If the coin is already in a PCGS holder, it is guaranteed not to downgrade, nothing more. Through our restoration service, PCGS is committed to preserving and restoring coins to their original and natural condition."

Thanks for info.
Wayne

JBK · November 22, 2021 10:25AM

I might very well be wrong, but I don't see how they can guarantee that new (since stabbing) damage won't result in a downgrade.

In other words, if a coin got a certain grade while displaying issues, removing those issues won't cause a downgrade.

But, new issues (developed since slabbing) could be a different issue, I would expect.

moursund · November 22, 2021 10:42AM

@JBK said:
I might very well be wrong, but I don't see how they can guarantee that new (since stabbing) damage won't result in a downgrade.

In other words, if a coin got a certain grade while displaying issues, removing those issues won't cause a downgrade.

But, new issues (developed since slabbing) could be a different issue, I would expect.

Interesting question... if the coin now looks/is substantially different than when it was graded, and conservation can't 'fix' the issues, does PCGS allow it to keep the orignal grade? Or buy the coin, because they don't want a problem coin in their holder?

HoldTheMayo · November 22, 2021 10:42AM

@JBK said:
I might very well be wrong, but I don't see how they can guarantee that new (since stabbing) damage won't result in a downgrade.

In other words, if a coin got a certain grade while displaying issues, removing those issues won't cause a downgrade.

But, new issues (developed since slabbing) could be a different issue, I would expect.

From what I've seen, they are pretty picky on what they restore, just a spitball but probably only like 30% of submissions are actually restored. So it would seem they will choose not to restore unless they are like 90%+ sure that the item will be improved.

lablover · November 22, 2021 12:44PM

@HoldTheMayo said:

@JBK said:
I might very well be wrong, but I don't see how they can guarantee that new (since stabbing) damage won't result in a downgrade.

In other words, if a coin got a certain grade while displaying issues, removing those issues won't cause a downgrade.

But, new issues (developed since slabbing) could be a different issue, I would expect.

From what I've seen, they are pretty picky on what they restore, just a spitball but probably only like 30% of submissions are actually restored. So it would seem they will choose not to restore unless they are like 90%+ sure that the item will be improved.

The coin will be evaluated when received. There's no guarantee PCGS will restore the coin, depends on what is required.
Here's a link to PCGS Restoration page:

https://pcgs.com/restoration

MetroD · November 22, 2021 4:06PM

@JBK said:
I might very well be wrong, but I don't see how they can guarantee that new (since stabbing) damage won't result in a downgrade.

In other words, if a coin got a certain grade while displaying issues, removing those issues won't cause a downgrade.

But, new issues (developed since slabbing) could be a different issue, I would expect.

This.

Per the OP, the coin "developed a tiny amount of PVC over the years". This probably happened AFTER the coin was encapsulated.

Why do I think that it happened AFTER encapsulation? PCGS will not knowingly encapsulate a coin with PVC 'contamination/residue', as it is likely to damage the coin over time.
Reference #1 (FAQ = What does PVC residue do to a coin and how can I avoid it?)
Reference #2 (CODE 99 - PVC Residue)

The "PCGS Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity" specifically states that the guarantee does not cover:
Coins exhibiting environmental deterioration. The PCGS Guarantee does not apply to coins exhibiting environmental deterioration subsequent to PCGS grading and encapsulation. This deterioration may include, but is not limited to, spotting, hazing, PVC contamination, changes in color, and corrosion.

gumby1234 · November 22, 2021 4:08PM

@MetroD EEKS hopefully the coin will be alright. I don't think that its progressed too far.

MsMorrisine · November 22, 2021 4:10PM

Wouldn’t KNOWINGLY holder

Mistakes can happen

MetroD · November 22, 2021 4:14PM

@gumby1234

I hope that it works out for you.

Please consider updating us with your results.

gumby1234 · November 22, 2021 4:23PM

Will do although from what I hear the turnaround time could be long. So maybe by late Spring? @MetroD

MetroD · November 22, 2021 7:01PM

@MsMorrisine said:
Wouldn’t KNOWINGLY holder

Mistakes can happen

Full disclosure ...

"Knowingly" is my term.

When PCGS discusses PVC residue, they are very definitive. For example:
~ "PCGS will not place coins with PVC residue in a PCGS holder." Source
~ "PCGS will not seal a coin with PVC, as it is likely to worsen over time and do further damage to the coin." Source

I chose to use "knowingly", because, as you pointed out, mistakes can happen. Further, I have not done a 'deep dive' into PVC damage. As such, I do not know how detectable contamination is in the early stages.

winesteven · November 23, 2021 12:46AM

@gumby1234 said:
Will do although from what I hear the turnaround time could be long. So maybe by late Spring? @MetroD

I just had an 1919 SLQ restored, and the turnaround time was only five weeks!

Steve

Zoins · November 23, 2021 2:39AM

@winesteven said:

@gumby1234 said:
Will do although from what I hear the turnaround time could be long. So maybe by late Spring? @MetroD

I just had an 1919 SLQ restored, and the turnaround time was only five weeks!

Steve

Glad to hear it! Do you have before and after photos?

winesteven · November 23, 2021 4:35AM

@Zoins said:

Glad to hear it! Do you have before and after photos?

Not large enough of a difference to easily see in photos. The MS64FH coin had a CAC, and the grade remained the same. But since it now had to have a new cert number, it had to requalify to get the CAC back, which it did. To potentially help, I included documentation in my shipment to CAC.

ricko · November 23, 2021 5:13AM

Tricky issue... PVC contamination may be difficult to identify if in the very early stages. I do not know if our host attempts this prior to slabbing.... Probably not. Please let us know what transpires with your coin. Cheers, RickO

Goldminers · November 23, 2021 6:11AM

This is what you may end up with. I still don't see what they did, so they are very picky about PVC.

jt88 · November 23, 2021 10:27AM

I have sent couple coins for restoration in the past. Some got upgraded some did not. Maybe when I have time I will start a new thread to post the before and after photo

jesbroken · November 23, 2021 10:45AM

I have had a couple of coins restored by NGC, but never by PCGS.
Jim

JBK · November 23, 2021 11:29AM

I had a nickel degreased by the other guys, but that's the extent of my "conservation" experience.

lkeigwin · November 23, 2021 2:51PM

This has come up before, and with other services like "regrades". When PCGS says a coin is "guaranteed not to downgrade" it does not mean a coin can't downgrade. It means the PCGS guarantee will apply if the coin must drop in grade. I.e., a payout will be made.

As DW explained years ago PCGS does not want obviously overgraded coins in its holders. PCGS will do everything it can to avoid it (e.g., choosing not to conserve a coin likely to have poor results).

PCGS hates payouts. Odds are very high that coins conserved or regraded (or reconsidered or cracked-out crosses) will keep their grades or improve.
Lance.

AMRC · November 23, 2021 3:20PM

PVC Residue is what is left behind after you remove the PVC. It means, loosely translated, "the PVC that was on this coin left a mark." That is different than physical PVC. Sometimes physical PVC can be removed and it leaves no mark. How successful that removal is at removing all traces of the PVC contamination is related to the time and intensity of exposure to the contaminate. This can you can have no PVC, but still have PVC residue.....

gumby1234 · December 11, 2021 7:40PM

The coin is in grading right now, so I am guessing that it made it through the restoration process ok.

jdimmick · December 11, 2021 8:58PM

I got three CC Morgans that were in a flood, covered with black encrusted guck. I sent them in to NGC for conservation, left a note telling them to just do the best they can. They all graded MS, curious to see how they look when they get back, Ill post em.

gumby1234 · December 11, 2021 9:19PM

@jdimmick Cool i would like to see them.

gumby1234 · February 18, 2022 6:20AM

The coin has finally moved from grading to imaging.

gumby1234 · February 23, 2022 5:17PM

The coin has moved to QA. Hopefully it will be finished soon.

gumby1234 · February 28, 2022 9:52AM

Coin is finally out of PCGS hands, although not back to mine yet. Its on its way. Heres a slab shot. Grade remained at MS67 and it looks a bit nicer.

gumby1234 · March 4, 2022 12:07PM

Got the coin back in my hands now. Looks great. True views still not posted.

gumby1234 · March 23, 2022 9:58AM

Got the Tru View.

Meltdown · March 23, 2022 10:56AM

What a neat error. Congrats on the "restoration" results.

gumby1234 · March 23, 2022 11:06AM

@Meltdown Thanks. Clips this large are rare on any denomination, and having the date makes it extremely rare. ( the more coin that is missing the less likely to have a date)

TomB · March 23, 2022 12:46PM

Holy Crud! It looks like somebody lost a highly decorated toenail!

Restoration questions_ Tru View is in

Comments

Leave a Comment