Sometimes the pros get it wrong. No one is being “attacked”. Some are questioning the opinion of those pros you default to. We frequent hear the phrase solid for the grade or high end for the grade. In this case some feel the coin is marginal for the grade and more in line with a 10. No attack, no assault, just an expression of a difference of opinion.
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
I will give you 10 to 1 odds that coin does not look better in hand, I would wager if anything it looks worse. Take that from someone who has literally bought 1000's of Barber halves from pictures!
Sometimes the pros get it wrong. No one is being “attacked”. Some are questioning the opinion of those pros you default to. We frequent hear the phrase solid for the grade or high end for the grade. In this case some feel the coin is marginal for the grade and more in line with a 10. No attack, no assault, just an expression of a difference of opinion.
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
@CoinCoins said:
imagine having a business where your entire purpose is to certify & grade coins. then another business opens next door & their sole purpose is to judge whether you graded them correctly or not.
You mean like PCGS and CAC? The market seems to have accepted both.
@CoinCoins said:
how about CAC2 stickers.. to judge if CAC did their job correctly.
It's a free (more or less, depending on where you live) country. If anyone thinks there's demand for such a service, nobody is stopping them from trying.
Sometimes the pros get it wrong. No one is being “attacked”. Some are questioning the opinion of those pros you default to. We frequent hear the phrase solid for the grade or high end for the grade. In this case some feel the coin is marginal for the grade and more in line with a 10. No attack, no assault, just an expression of a difference of opinion.
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
The OP buys and sells coins for a living, with a strong specialization in Barber material. I'd wager that he's seen far more circulated Barber coins than has JA.
Sometimes the pros get it wrong. No one is being “attacked”. Some are questioning the opinion of those pros you default to. We frequent hear the phrase solid for the grade or high end for the grade. In this case some feel the coin is marginal for the grade and more in line with a 10. No attack, no assault, just an expression of a difference of opinion.
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
The OP buys and sells coins for a living, with a strong specialization in Barber material. I'd wager that he's seen far more circulated Barber coins than has JA.
That says nothing about whether the coin looks like the image or about the ability of both PCGS and CAC to assess both mint state and circulated examples with an extremely high degree of expertise.
The coin might look like the picture (or worse) in hand, but it might not. Is it really necessary for people to assume that it does and react accordingly?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Sometimes the pros get it wrong. No one is being “attacked”. Some are questioning the opinion of those pros you default to. We frequent hear the phrase solid for the grade or high end for the grade. In this case some feel the coin is marginal for the grade and more in line with a 10. No attack, no assault, just an expression of a difference of opinion.
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
The OP buys and sells coins for a living, with a strong specialization in Barber material. I'd wager that he's seen far more circulated Barber coins than has JA.
And I would wager that the OP has submitted many over dipped AU halves to CAC that did not bean.
Sometimes the pros get it wrong. No one is being “attacked”. Some are questioning the opinion of those pros you default to. We frequent hear the phrase solid for the grade or high end for the grade. In this case some feel the coin is marginal for the grade and more in line with a 10. No attack, no assault, just an expression of a difference of opinion.
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
The pros have differing opinions, changing opinions and at times get it wrong. And while I understand the limitations of grade by photographs all photos are not equal. The photos of this coin are very clear and again, the judgements are being made based on characteristics that are not easily hidden as is the case with higher grade coins.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
My BIG BEEF with CAC on this coin is how it is harped that a coin must be totally unmessed with to get the bean. This coin is far from that!
CAC has never said, implied or practiced that. Your “BIG BEEF” (which, by the way, I think would be a fantastic name for a fast food sandwich😉) should be with people who say that, not with CAC.
It would have helped to be clear about your "big beef" at the beginning.
That was not at the beginning when all you did is post a picture and a suck.
Sometimes the pros get it wrong. No one is being “attacked”. Some are questioning the opinion of those pros you default to. We frequent hear the phrase solid for the grade or high end for the grade. In this case some feel the coin is marginal for the grade and more in line with a 10. No attack, no assault, just an expression of a difference of opinion.
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
The OP buys and sells coins for a living, with a strong specialization in Barber material. I'd wager that he's seen far more circulated Barber coins than has JA.
That says nothing about whether the coin looks like the image or about the ability of both PCGS and CAC to assess both mint state and circulated examples with an extremely high degree of expertise.
The coin might look like the picture (or worse) in hand, but it might not. Is it really necessary for people to assume that it does and react accordingly?
My response was a direct reply to a statement which questioned the validity of anyone here taking issue with the stickering of a specific coin.
While I acknowledge that seeing a coin in hand is far preferable to assessing it from images, I think it's far more important for mint state material. The available images for this coin seem sufficient to determine that its surfaces are not original. And again, without written standards, the argument as to what deserves a sticker is completely meaningless.
The thread was simply a declaration that the OP's standards are stricter than CAC's in the realm of his specialty. I feel the same way about QA stickers on Roosie dimes. Completely meaningless to me, as I've seen many thousands and have followed the market for them very closely for 20+ years.
Sometimes the pros get it wrong. No one is being “attacked”. Some are questioning the opinion of those pros you default to. We frequent hear the phrase solid for the grade or high end for the grade. In this case some feel the coin is marginal for the grade and more in line with a 10. No attack, no assault, just an expression of a difference of opinion.
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
The OP buys and sells coins for a living, with a strong specialization in Barber material. I'd wager that he's seen far more circulated Barber coins than has JA.
That says nothing about whether the coin looks like the image or about the ability of both PCGS and CAC to assess both mint state and circulated examples with an extremely high degree of expertise.
The coin might look like the picture (or worse) in hand, but it might not. Is it really necessary for people to assume that it does and react accordingly?
My response was a direct reply to a statement which questioned the validity of anyone here taking issue with the stickering of a specific coin.
While I acknowledge that seeing a coin in hand is far preferable to assessing it from images, I think it's far more important for mint state material. The available images for this coin seem sufficient to determine that its surfaces are not original. And again, without written standards, the argument as to what deserves a sticker is completely meaningless.
The thread was simply a declaration that the OP's standards are stricter than CAC's in the realm of his specialty. I feel the same way about QA stickers on Roosie dimes. Completely meaningless to me, as I've seen many thousands and have followed the market for them very closely for 20+ years.
Your post serves as an excellent example of making a point without bashing.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Sometimes the pros get it wrong. No one is being “attacked”. Some are questioning the opinion of those pros you default to. We frequent hear the phrase solid for the grade or high end for the grade. In this case some feel the coin is marginal for the grade and more in line with a 10. No attack, no assault, just an expression of a difference of opinion.
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
The OP buys and sells coins for a living, with a strong specialization in Barber material. I'd wager that he's seen far more circulated Barber coins than has JA.
Just so I get this straight…this entire thread is over a properly graded but maybe not solid for the grade Fine barber half with a difference in value with or without a sticker of about $25. Right?
@tradedollarnut said:
Just so I get this straight…this entire thread is over a properly graded but maybe not solid for the grade Fine barber half with a difference in value with or without a sticker of about $25. Right?
Pfffft.
I’ll try to anticipate possible retorts from CAC detractors and cram most of them into a single post:
Part of the thread, not the entire thread
Possibly accurately graded, but probably not
Not only not solid for the grade, but also some combination of cleaned, polished, scrubbed, abused, dipped, messed with, whizzed and/or other
“Barber half” or “Barber half dollar”, not “barber half”
The difference in value could be more or less than “about $25”.
😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Sometimes the pros get it wrong. No one is being “attacked”. Some are questioning the opinion of those pros you default to. We frequent hear the phrase solid for the grade or high end for the grade. In this case some feel the coin is marginal for the grade and more in line with a 10. No attack, no assault, just an expression of a difference of opinion.
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
The OP buys and sells coins for a living, with a strong specialization in Barber material. I'd wager that he's seen far more circulated Barber coins than has JA.
And I would wager that the OP has submitted many over dipped AU halves to CAC that did not bean.
Sometimes the pros get it wrong. No one is being “attacked”. Some are questioning the opinion of those pros you default to. We frequent hear the phrase solid for the grade or high end for the grade. In this case some feel the coin is marginal for the grade and more in line with a 10. No attack, no assault, just an expression of a difference of opinion.
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
The OP buys and sells coins for a living, with a strong specialization in Barber material. I'd wager that he's seen far more circulated Barber coins than has JA.
And I would wager that the OP has submitted many over dipped AU halves to CAC that did not bean.
Apparently you are leaving tons of money on the table since you could be buying many many coins inferior to your standards and getting them rammed through Pcgs and cac at a higher grade. Tons!
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
Sometimes the pros get it wrong. No one is being “attacked”. Some are questioning the opinion of those pros you default to. We frequent hear the phrase solid for the grade or high end for the grade. In this case some feel the coin is marginal for the grade and more in line with a 10. No attack, no assault, just an expression of a difference of opinion.
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
The OP buys and sells coins for a living, with a strong specialization in Barber material. I'd wager that he's seen far more circulated Barber coins than has JA.
If that coin ended up in my inventory it would be sold for around 2/3's of what I would sell a nice original coin for. In fact I just looked and I sold a similar coin for $235 graded PCGS F12. I usually only end up with coins like this when I buy whole collections or sets. Of course every thing has the right price but I just pass right by them and don't follow them in auctions.
@tradedollarnut said:
Just so I get this straight…this entire thread is over a properly graded but maybe not solid for the grade Fine barber half with a difference in value with or without a sticker of about $25. Right?
Pfffft.
I’ll try to anticipate possible retorts from CAC detractors and cram most of them into a single post:
Part of the thread, not the entire thread
Possibly accurately graded, but probably not
Not only not solid for the grade, but also some combination of cleaned, polished, scrubbed, abused, dipped, messed with, whizzed and/or other
“Barber half” or “Barber half dollar”, not “barber half”
The difference in value could be more or less than “about $25”.
@amwldcoin said:
If that coin ended up in my inventory it would be sold for around 2/3's of what I would sell a nice original coin for. In fact I just looked and I sold a similar coin for $235 graded PCGS F12. I usually only end up with coins like this when I buy whole collections or sets. Of course every thing has the right price but I just pass right by them and don't follow them in auctions.
@tradedollarnut said:
Just so I get this straight…this entire thread is over a properly graded but maybe not solid for the grade Fine barber half with a difference in value with or without a sticker of about $25. Right?
Pfffft.
I’ll try to anticipate possible retorts from CAC detractors and cram most of them into a single post:
Part of the thread, not the entire thread
Possibly accurately graded, but probably not
Not only not solid for the grade, but also some combination of cleaned, polished, scrubbed, abused, dipped, messed with, whizzed and/or other
“Barber half” or “Barber half dollar”, not “barber half”
The difference in value could be more or less than “about $25”.
😉
The coin sold for $299 at a heritage auction in 2010. Granted, that could just be a bidiot.
Show us a pic of the coin you sold for $235 so we can compare the minutiae
The value of the coin is irrelevant actually. Standards should be maintained for all submitted coins, IMHO. The OP also wasn't the party who decided the coin was worth submitting.
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Presumably so, although once again you seem to be ignoring that I was addressing a specific question: who had likely seen more circulated Barber halves between JA and the OP.
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Presumably so, although once again you seem to be ignoring that I was addressing a specific question: who had likely seen more circulated Barber halves between JA and the OP.
Counting JA’s time as a young collector, junior dealer, a grader for Pcgs and a grader for NGC? Dunno.
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Presumably so, although once again you seem to be ignoring that I was addressing a specific question: who had likely seen more circulated Barber halves between JA and the OP.
Counting JA’s time as a young collector, junior dealer, a grader for Pcgs and a grader for NGC? Dunno.
This entire argument is hypothetical, but the OP is a specialist and dealer in circulated Barber material, while JA is not. Beyond the exact number of coins viewed, there's the question of focus. In any case, it doesn't seem productive to discuss the matter further.
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
See points above by others, I only was referring to JA's record since l986 he probably has another 20 years prior full of barber halve evaluations in hand (as all other coins too). It is all a guessing game, both have seen alot, but most informed numismatists refer to JA as one of the best, if not the best, grader in the world. So I would have to see the coin in question in hand before I start criticizing or agreeing with the bean on its slab. That is my point from the beginning..........
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Presumably so, although once again you seem to be ignoring that I was addressing a specific question: who had likely seen more circulated Barber halves between JA and the OP.
Counting JA’s time as a young collector, junior dealer, a grader for Pcgs and a grader for NGC? Dunno.
This entire argument is hypothetical, but the OP is a specialist and dealer in circulated Barber material, while JA is not. Beyond the exact number of coins viewed, there's the question of focus. In any case, it doesn't seem productive to discuss the matter further.
There’s also a question of bias. Tpg graders are biased, JA is biased and the OP is biased. They all like what they like…and that doesn’t necessarily make any of them right or not right. It just calls opinions into question.
I dont like the coin either, IMO its a C quality coin, at best a B-. And for those that posted the pics of the quarters, the wear patterns are different for quarters than halves. Although the coin posted is a technical fine, IMO, not a cac piece
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Presumably so, although once again you seem to be ignoring that I was addressing a specific question: who had likely seen more circulated Barber halves between JA and the OP.
Counting JA’s time as a young collector, junior dealer, a grader for Pcgs and a grader for NGC? Dunno.
He's literally looked at millions of coins. I'm sure some of them were circulated Barbers
@jdimmick said:
I dont like the coin either, IMO its a C quality coin, at best a B-. And for those that posted the pics of the quarters, the wear patterns are different for quarters than halves. Although the coin posted is a technical fine, IMO, not a cac piece
I posted the PCGS photograde half which is a dead ringer. The OP himself didn't question the grade. He's questioning the surface originality.
As a barber half collector of F12 - F15, I would not buy this coin in any holder or raw. It has a cleaned look - both color and hairlines. Doesn’t matter if it’s actually been cleaned - it looks cleaned in the photos which is always going to hamper resale. 1892 - 1897 halves are tough in mid-circ. I buy a lot of CAC coins and value CAC’s opinion, but this coin has a cleaned appearance and barely makes the grade.
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Presumably so, although once again you seem to be ignoring that I was addressing a specific question: who had likely seen more circulated Barber halves between JA and the OP.
Counting JA’s time as a young collector, junior dealer, a grader for Pcgs and a grader for NGC? Dunno.
He's literally looked at millions of coins. I'm sure some of them were circulated Barbers
Could we trouble you for your thoughts on the price of tea in China while you're here...?
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Presumably so, although once again you seem to be ignoring that I was addressing a specific question: who had likely seen more circulated Barber halves between JA and the OP.
Counting JA’s time as a young collector, junior dealer, a grader for Pcgs and a grader for NGC? Dunno.
He's literally looked at millions of coins. I'm sure some of them were circulated Barbers
Could we trouble you for your thoughts on the price of tea in China while you're here...?
It's quite inexpensive by comparison to New York prices. I do prefer the green tea to the black tea.
You're the one questioning his relative Barber experience. You don't need to question his experience relative to @amwldcoin to not like that one coin.
How do you feel about the price of Barber Halves in China?
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
And of all those 3,946 beaned Barber Halfs not 1 incorrectly beaded in this game of opinions.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Presumably so, although once again you seem to be ignoring that I was addressing a specific question: who had likely seen more circulated Barber halves between JA and the OP.
Counting JA’s time as a young collector, junior dealer, a grader for Pcgs and a grader for NGC? Dunno.
I believe the following statement is the truth. Very few Circulated Barber Halves were submitted to the grading services(except the keys) until I started my quest to build all my grading sets. In fact, I know that is true! PCGS ought to give me a commission! I made quite a few POP 1 's along my journey that now have POPs in the teens!
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
See points above by others, I only was referring to JA's record since l986 he probably has another 20 years prior full of barber halve evaluations in hand (as all other coins too). It is all a guessing game, both have seen alot, but most informed numismatists refer to JA as one of the best, if not the best, grader in the world. So I would have to see the coin in question in hand before I start criticizing or agreeing with the bean on its slab. That is my point from the beginning..........
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
And of all those 3,946 beaned Barber Halfs not 1 incorrectly beaded in this game of opinions.
There's probably several, maybe even this coin. But I would never question the two sets of professionals based on one photo.
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Presumably so, although once again you seem to be ignoring that I was addressing a specific question: who had likely seen more circulated Barber halves between JA and the OP.
Counting JA’s time as a young collector, junior dealer, a grader for Pcgs and a grader for NGC? Dunno.
He's literally looked at millions of coins. I'm sure some of them were circulated Barbers
Could we trouble you for your thoughts on the price of tea in China while you're here...?
It's quite inexpensive by comparison to New York prices. I do prefer the green tea to the black tea.
You're the one questioning his relative Barber experience. You don't need to question his experience relative to @amwldcoin to not like that one coin.
How do you feel about the price of Barber Halves in China?
You should have left "well enough" alone. Your initial response (first stanza) was pleasantly droll.
I'm not questioning either the OP's or JA's "Barber experience". There was some speculation about who had seen more circ Barber halves between the two, at which point you decided to chime in with a gratuitous comment which added nothing. Did somebody ring the dinner bell?
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Presumably so, although once again you seem to be ignoring that I was addressing a specific question: who had likely seen more circulated Barber halves between JA and the OP.
Counting JA’s time as a young collector, junior dealer, a grader for Pcgs and a grader for NGC? Dunno.
He's literally looked at millions of coins. I'm sure some of them were circulated Barbers
Could we trouble you for your thoughts on the price of tea in China while you're here...?
It's quite inexpensive by comparison to New York prices. I do prefer the green tea to the black tea.
You're the one questioning his relative Barber experience. You don't need to question his experience relative to @amwldcoin to not like that one coin.
How do you feel about the price of Barber Halves in China?
You should have left "well enough" alone. Your initial response (first stanza) was pleasantly droll.
I'm not questioning either the OP's or JA's "Barber experience". There was some speculation about who had seen more circ Barber halves between the two, at which point you decided to chime in with a gratuitous comment which added nothing. Did somebody ring the dinner bell?
I simply observed that when you've graded 10 million coins, you are experienced with Barbers. You feel it added nothing, but only because it was a very subtle rebuttal. Perhaps too subtle for you?
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Presumably so, although once again you seem to be ignoring that I was addressing a specific question: who had likely seen more circulated Barber halves between JA and the OP.
Counting JA’s time as a young collector, junior dealer, a grader for Pcgs and a grader for NGC? Dunno.
He's literally looked at millions of coins. I'm sure some of them were circulated Barbers
Could we trouble you for your thoughts on the price of tea in China while you're here...?
It's quite inexpensive by comparison to New York prices. I do prefer the green tea to the black tea.
You're the one questioning his relative Barber experience. You don't need to question his experience relative to @amwldcoin to not like that one coin.
How do you feel about the price of Barber Halves in China?
You should have left "well enough" alone. Your initial response (first stanza) was pleasantly droll.
I'm not questioning either the OP's or JA's "Barber experience". There was some speculation about who had seen more circ Barber halves between the two, at which point you decided to chime in with a gratuitous comment which added nothing. Did somebody ring the dinner bell?
I simply observed that when you've graded 10 million coins, you are experienced with Barbers. You're the one who raised the relative number of coins as though it were relevant. You feel it added nothing, but only because it was a very subtle rebuttal.
I simply observed that if you've graded 10 million coins, of which perhaps a few hundred were well-circulated Barbers, your opinion may not be more valid than a dealer who specializes in such coins and has handled several thousand of them.
@amwldcoin said:
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
And of all those 3,946 beaned Barber Halfs not 1 incorrectly beaded in this game of opinions.
There's probably several, maybe even this coin. But I would never question the two sets of professionals based on one photo.
I would agree with you in most cases, especially when discussing higher grade coins. But with respect to this coin and the photographs provided I think there is much more reason to doubt the coin deserved the bean.
Putting that aside some (not saying you) seem to express the idea that to question a bean or PCGS grade is numismatic heresy. Of course the bottom line is if you don't agree with the designation don't buy the coin. I realize the thread started with CAC blows. That's the flip side of CAC is the be all, end all in grading. Neither is accurate in my opinion and when it comes to coin grading (opinions) there will be those that lean more one way or the other.
MFeld, how was that for fair and balanced?
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Comments
Problem is, you, nor I, nor many on this thread, are pros. And, you, I, and all on this thread have only seen images, not the coin in hand. It may look different in hand such that the grade, and the sticker are justified. The only professional advice I can provide is that numismatic items can look very different in hand compared to poor quality images such as those posted here for the coin in question. And also, we already know you are a CAC basher. You have made that clear in previous threads.........
I will give you 10 to 1 odds that coin does not look better in hand, I would wager if anything it looks worse. Take that from someone who has literally bought 1000's of Barber halves from pictures!
You mean like PCGS and CAC? The market seems to have accepted both.
It's a free (more or less, depending on where you live) country. If anyone thinks there's demand for such a service, nobody is stopping them from trying.
The OP buys and sells coins for a living, with a strong specialization in Barber material. I'd wager that he's seen far more circulated Barber coins than has JA.
That says nothing about whether the coin looks like the image or about the ability of both PCGS and CAC to assess both mint state and circulated examples with an extremely high degree of expertise.
The coin might look like the picture (or worse) in hand, but it might not. Is it really necessary for people to assume that it does and react accordingly?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
And I would wager that the OP has submitted many over dipped AU halves to CAC that did not bean.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
The pros have differing opinions, changing opinions and at times get it wrong. And while I understand the limitations of grade by photographs all photos are not equal. The photos of this coin are very clear and again, the judgements are being made based on characteristics that are not easily hidden as is the case with higher grade coins.
That was not at the beginning when all you did is post a picture and a suck.
And that was after all the photograde posts.
Clearly a F and not a VG
My response was a direct reply to a statement which questioned the validity of anyone here taking issue with the stickering of a specific coin.
While I acknowledge that seeing a coin in hand is far preferable to assessing it from images, I think it's far more important for mint state material. The available images for this coin seem sufficient to determine that its surfaces are not original. And again, without written standards, the argument as to what deserves a sticker is completely meaningless.
The thread was simply a declaration that the OP's standards are stricter than CAC's in the realm of his specialty. I feel the same way about QA stickers on Roosie dimes. Completely meaningless to me, as I've seen many thousands and have followed the market for them very closely for 20+ years.
Your post serves as an excellent example of making a point without bashing.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Probably not, but could go either way........
Which side? Reverse looks weaker than the obverse. VG of F but no premium IMO.
Just so I get this straight…this entire thread is over a properly graded but maybe not solid for the grade Fine barber half with a difference in value with or without a sticker of about $25. Right?
Pfffft.
I’ll try to anticipate possible retorts from CAC detractors and cram most of them into a single post:
Part of the thread, not the entire thread
Possibly accurately graded, but probably not
Not only not solid for the grade, but also some combination of cleaned, polished, scrubbed, abused, dipped, messed with, whizzed and/or other
“Barber half” or “Barber half dollar”, not “barber half”
The difference in value could be more or less than “about $25”.
😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You forgot “coins like this don’t even need CAC so why is the company even in existence “!?!
LOL! Never submitted a coin to CAC!
Apparently you are leaving tons of money on the table since you could be buying many many coins inferior to your standards and getting them rammed through Pcgs and cac at a higher grade. Tons!
I own or have sold around 5000 Certified Barber Halves. I have no idea how many thousands of Raw Barber Halves I have handled as I don't keep a spreadsheet on them.
If that coin ended up in my inventory it would be sold for around 2/3's of what I would sell a nice original coin for. In fact I just looked and I sold a similar coin for $235 graded PCGS F12. I usually only end up with coins like this when I buy whole collections or sets. Of course every thing has the right price but I just pass right by them and don't follow them in auctions.
The coin sold for $299 at a heritage auction in 2010. Granted, that could just be a bidiot.
Show us a pic of the coin you sold for $235 so we can compare the minutiae
The value of the coin is irrelevant actually. Standards should be maintained for all submitted coins, IMHO. The OP also wasn't the party who decided the coin was worth submitting.
According to the census report at CAC, they have beaned 3946 barber half dollars as of today, if that represents 40% of the barber half dollars submitted (likely based on what they say the bean rate is), it means just since CAC started, JA has seen and evaluated around 10K barber half dollars. That represents about 12 years of his career, he started TPGS in l986 on. So 1986-2009 is 24 years, so let's say JA has seen equivalent amounts of barber halves to evaluate over that time period. So since he started TPG's we can conclude that JA has evaluated around 30,000 barber halves. So I am thinking he knows what he likes to bean....... And as I said, it could go either way as to who has evaluated more barber halves, you, or JA.
Best, SH
The flaw in your argument is that the VAST majority of Barber halves sent to CAC are mint state (or at least AU). One only has to scan the CAC pop reports to confirm that.
I think JA can probably detect and assess problems on circulated examples just as well on uncirculated ones.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Presumably so, although once again you seem to be ignoring that I was addressing a specific question: who had likely seen more circulated Barber halves between JA and the OP.
Counting JA’s time as a young collector, junior dealer, a grader for Pcgs and a grader for NGC? Dunno.
This entire argument is hypothetical, but the OP is a specialist and dealer in circulated Barber material, while JA is not. Beyond the exact number of coins viewed, there's the question of focus. In any case, it doesn't seem productive to discuss the matter further.
See points above by others, I only was referring to JA's record since l986 he probably has another 20 years prior full of barber halve evaluations in hand (as all other coins too). It is all a guessing game, both have seen alot, but most informed numismatists refer to JA as one of the best, if not the best, grader in the world. So I would have to see the coin in question in hand before I start criticizing or agreeing with the bean on its slab. That is my point from the beginning..........
Vg10+
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
There’s also a question of bias. Tpg graders are biased, JA is biased and the OP is biased. They all like what they like…and that doesn’t necessarily make any of them right or not right. It just calls opinions into question.
I dont like the coin either, IMO its a C quality coin, at best a B-. And for those that posted the pics of the quarters, the wear patterns are different for quarters than halves. Although the coin posted is a technical fine, IMO, not a cac piece
He's literally looked at millions of coins. I'm sure some of them were circulated Barbers
I posted the PCGS photograde half which is a dead ringer. The OP himself didn't question the grade. He's questioning the surface originality.
As a barber half collector of F12 - F15, I would not buy this coin in any holder or raw. It has a cleaned look - both color and hairlines. Doesn’t matter if it’s actually been cleaned - it looks cleaned in the photos which is always going to hamper resale. 1892 - 1897 halves are tough in mid-circ. I buy a lot of CAC coins and value CAC’s opinion, but this coin has a cleaned appearance and barely makes the grade.
Could we trouble you for your thoughts on the price of tea in China while you're here...?
It's quite inexpensive by comparison to New York prices. I do prefer the green tea to the black tea.
You're the one questioning his relative Barber experience. You don't need to question his experience relative to @amwldcoin to not like that one coin.
How do you feel about the price of Barber Halves in China?
Now here's the problem... CAC needs to very slightly increase the size of their stickers in proportion to grade inflation.
Point taken! I pass on way more Barber Halves than I buy!
And of all those 3,946 beaned Barber Halfs not 1 incorrectly beaded in this game of opinions.
Nobody knows! I've been collecting since I was 8 and dealing for the last 25+ years and I'm 62.
I believe the following statement is the truth. Very few Circulated Barber Halves were submitted to the grading services(except the keys) until I started my quest to build all my grading sets. In fact, I know that is true! PCGS ought to give me a commission! I made quite a few POP 1 's along my journey that now have POPs in the teens!
There's probably several, maybe even this coin. But I would never question the two sets of professionals based on one photo.
CAC threads are always a hoot.
You should have left "well enough" alone. Your initial response (first stanza) was pleasantly droll.
I'm not questioning either the OP's or JA's "Barber experience". There was some speculation about who had seen more circ Barber halves between the two, at which point you decided to chime in with a gratuitous comment which added nothing. Did somebody ring the dinner bell?
I simply observed that when you've graded 10 million coins, you are experienced with Barbers. You feel it added nothing, but only because it was a very subtle rebuttal. Perhaps too subtle for you?
I simply observed that if you've graded 10 million coins, of which perhaps a few hundred were well-circulated Barbers, your opinion may not be more valid than a dealer who specializes in such coins and has handled several thousand of them.
In other words, rebut THIS!
I would agree with you in most cases, especially when discussing higher grade coins. But with respect to this coin and the photographs provided I think there is much more reason to doubt the coin deserved the bean.
Putting that aside some (not saying you) seem to express the idea that to question a bean or PCGS grade is numismatic heresy. Of course the bottom line is if you don't agree with the designation don't buy the coin. I realize the thread started with CAC blows. That's the flip side of CAC is the be all, end all in grading. Neither is accurate in my opinion and when it comes to coin grading (opinions) there will be those that lean more one way or the other.
MFeld, how was that for fair and balanced?
And, surprisingly, they never get old. The incessant rehashing of the same old arguments never loses its exciting appeal!
Smitten with DBLCs.