Contemporary counterfeit 1921 Saint Gaudens

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mountain_goat
mountain_goat Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Opinion, please:

a. Keep for studying
b. Send to melting pot




Comments

  • TurtleCat
    TurtleCat Posts: 4,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    But, but, but it’s authenticated! I’d probably melt it, personally. Safer than the alternative especially if someone would be fooled later by the packaging.

  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,088 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    keep it

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • LanceNewmanOCC
    LanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    nice images

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • ColonelJessup
    ColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2021 4:48PM
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    Isn't PhotoShop cool? Certificate signatory Jeffrey Bergelt recently retired. Lives not far from @MrEureka and myself.

    If that item physically exists, phoney-baloney as the coin might be, even plaster of paris, I know an LA dealer who would be thrilled to bust Markoff's chops with it. >:)

    edited to add: Actually, when I think about it, I know three dealers...... :#>:)

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • ColonelJessup
    ColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2021 4:59PM
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    @CaptHenway said:
    I question whether that is a contemporary counterfeit or not.

    Would the OP please explain his use of "contemporary" :)

    I'm hoping the pot is only beginning to bubble.. :p

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • MrEureka
    MrEureka Posts: 24,781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2021 7:44PM
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    @CaptHenway said:
    I question whether that is a contemporary counterfeit or not.

    I've never seen a contemporary counterfeit Saint and I doubt that this is the first. If I had to guess, I'd say it was probably made in the 1960's or so, and not by a master craftsman.

    Also, sadly, Jeffrey Bergelt passed away early this year, so we can't ask him if the coin looks familiar.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • thefinn
    thefinn Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No reason to counterfeit a $20 gold out of gold in the 1920s. It either isn’t gold, is of much lower karat, or done in ‘60s - ‘70s.

    thefinn
  • MWallace
    MWallace Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Does it show any signs (probably on the edge) of having been opened, original coin replaced with that counterfeit, and then resealed?

  • ShipwreckCoinHunter
    ShipwreckCoinHunter Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Her face looks mushed

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Interesting piece to study.... Likely has to be removed to ascertain metal/purity.... Likely the original coin was removed and replaced with whatever that is....Cheers, RickO

  • ColonelJessup
    ColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 7, 2021 8:46AM
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    @ricko said:
    Interesting piece to study.... Likely has to be removed to ascertain metal/purity.... Likely the original coin was removed and replaced with whatever that is....Cheers, RickO

    "Likely"? :o
    "Likely"? :*
    "LIKELY"? >:)

    @MrEureka
    "not a master craftsman"

    @WCFields
    "hit in the face with a frying pan"

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • ColonelJessup
    ColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MrEureka said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    I question whether that is a contemporary counterfeit or not.

    I've never seen a contemporary counterfeit Saint and I doubt that this is the first. If I had to guess, I'd say it was probably made in the 1960's or so, and not by a master craftsman.

    Also, sadly, Jeffrey Bergelt passed away early this year, so we can't ask him if the coin looks familiar.

    Misspoke. RIP

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,062 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ricko said:
    Interesting piece to study.... Likely has to be removed to ascertain metal/purity.... Likely the original coin was removed and replaced with whatever that is....Cheers, RickO

    You can shoot it through the plastic with an XRF

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • ColonelJessup
    ColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 7, 2021 9:14AM
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    You can shoot it through the plastic with a .22. :#
    Are we, as yet, certain the coin itself isn't plastic?
    While the toning might satisfy many a DOG fanatic, it might just be chocolate leaking out from the center. ;)

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,152 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Melt it

    Collector, occasional seller

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 7, 2021 9:32AM
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @ricko said:
    Interesting piece to study.... Likely has to be removed to ascertain metal/purity.... Likely the original coin was removed and replaced with whatever that is....Cheers, RickO

    You can shoot it through the plastic with an XRF

    There's already a slit at the bottom of the soft plastic holder as already been shown in an earlier post in this thread. You can just remove the coin from the holder, use a Sigma machine, weigh it, measure the size, and then put the coin back.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • ifthevamzarockin
    ifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,915 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 7, 2021 9:43AM
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    @PerryHall
    "You can just remove the coin from the holder, use a Sigma machine, weigh it, measure the size, and then put the coin back."

    Or rather than waste the time to put the coin back you could just throw it in the trash.
    Good chance the gold content is very low if there is any gold.
    Like the Colonel said it might be chocolate in the center.

  • Treashunt
    Treashunt Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    @PerryHall
    "You can just remove the coin from the holder, use a Sigma machine, weigh it, measure the size, and then put the coin back."

    Or rather than waste the time to put the coin back you could just throw it in the trash.
    Good chance the gold content is very low if there is any gold.
    Like the Colonel said it might be chocolate in the center.

    What?!

    and waste some [possibly] good chocolate.

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • ReadyFireAim
    ReadyFireAim Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That thing is so horrible I wouldn't use the melted gold for jewelry.
    Maybe shoot it back out into space.

    My Saint Set

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    @PerryHall
    "You can just remove the coin from the holder, use a Sigma machine, weigh it, measure the size, and then put the coin back."

    Or rather than waste the time to put the coin back you could just throw it in the trash.

    >
    Most US gold counterfeit coins from the 1960's to present are made of real gold. Why throw away gold when you can sell it for scrap value?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • ifthevamzarockin
    ifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,915 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I will stick to my comment. "Good chance the gold content is very low if there is any gold."

    I wouldn't give the OP $25 for the coin.

  • BuffaloIronTail
    BuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,767 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ColonelJessup said:
    You can shoot it through the plastic with a .22. :#
    Are we, as yet, certain the coin itself isn't plastic?
    While the toning might satisfy many a DOG fanatic, it might just be chocolate leaking out from the center. ;)

    The coin itself is a DOG.

    Maybe it's a Cheese DOG?

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • NumisOxide
    NumisOxide Posts: 11,049 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    Looks like the package has been cut and the coin replaced with a counterfeit.

    I agree looks that way.

  • pmh1nic
    pmh1nic Posts: 3,503 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ricko said:
    Interesting piece to study.... Likely has to be removed to ascertain metal/purity.... Likely the original coin was removed and replaced with whatever that is....Cheers, RickO

    The Sigma Analytics precious metal analyzer can do it while the coin is still in the slab.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @pmh1nic.... Thanks, I have not used one (though I have thought about buying one), so I really did not know if it could do it without being in direct contact. Good to know this. Cheers, RickO

  • oih82w8
    oih82w8 Posts: 13,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks like some of the plating has being scraped away on the obverse between the rays circled in red;

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • messydesk
    messydesk Posts: 20,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ChrisH821 said:
    Melt it

    Maybe add cream and make a tasty chocolate ganache with it.

    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
  • gumby1234
    gumby1234 Posts: 5,901 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The chocolate would probably be moldy by now

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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