NGC acquired by Blackstone

https://tampabay.com/news/business/2021/07/02/tampa-bay-coin-and-card-grading-company-sells-in-nine-figure-deal/ Regurgitation about the sale in the Tampa Bay Times.

@WCC said:

@Goldminers said:

@WCC said:

@Goldminers said:
Future Collectable ETF?

If so, it will be a small one.

This is another concept that already exists.

https://collectable.com/

The trading card grading market is very hot, some very high end top dollar coins as well. So a company like NGC (or someone like Mr. Hansen) can buy an 1804 silver dollar for example and then issue 100,000 shares of ownership. So an average collector can own a piece of it. Risky maybe, but if they can sell digital imaginary NTF stuff, why not sell a share of something real?

I don't believe more than a very low percentage of collectors would have an interest in this concept.

It will be interesting to see what happens. The overall market for all kinds of assets is changing fast. The majority of collectors simply can't afford a LeBron James rookie card, but they might be able to afford 1% of one, with a nice digital certificate to go with it.

@Goldminers said:

@WCC said:

@Goldminers said:

@WCC said:

@Goldminers said:
Future Collectable ETF?

If so, it will be a small one.

This is another concept that already exists.

https://collectable.com/

The trading card grading market is very hot, some very high end top dollar coins as well. So a company like NGC (or someone like Mr. Hansen) can buy an 1804 silver dollar for example and then issue 100,000 shares of ownership. So an average collector can own a piece of it. Risky maybe, but if they can sell digital imaginary NTF stuff, why not sell a share of something real?

I don't believe more than a very low percentage of collectors would have an interest in this concept.

It will be interesting to see what happens. The overall market for all kinds of assets is changing fast. The majority of collectors simply can't afford a LeBron James rookie card, but they might be able to afford 1% of one, with a nice digital certificate to go with it.

This is a concept which is mostly influenced or determined by factors entirely outside of collecting, as I wouldn't call fractional ownership "collecting" at all. It's a novelty for a low proportion, maybe a status symbol of a sort to an even smaller minority but overwhelmingly if it expands past actual collectors, just another form of speculation.

I'm somewhat familiar with NFT which I consider absurd. Also familiar with some of the prices for sports cards and other collectibles.

My explanation for it is the unprecedented asset bubble and credit mania. It's a subject outside the scope of the US coin forum but there is nothing remotely normal either with the economy or the financial markets, even before COVID. Contrary to what most seem to believe, I see it destined to collapse, though I have to admit this financial recklessness has lasted far longer than I ever thought possible.

The US Mint is involved in numismatics. They were able to sell coins that won't even exist for 4 months.

@WCC said:

@Goldminers said:

@WCC said:

@Goldminers said:
Future Collectable ETF?

If so, it will be a small one.

This is another concept that already exists.

https://collectable.com/

The trading card grading market is very hot, some very high end top dollar coins as well. So a company like NGC (or someone like Mr. Hansen) can buy an 1804 silver dollar for example and then issue 100,000 shares of ownership. So an average collector can own a piece of it. Risky maybe, but if they can sell digital imaginary NTF stuff, why not sell a share of something real?

I don't believe more than a very low percentage of collectors would have an interest in this concept.

Agreed. Collectors want to collect.

@Goldminers said:

@WCC said:

@Goldminers said:

@WCC said:

@Goldminers said:
Future Collectable ETF?

If so, it will be a small one.

This is another concept that already exists.

https://collectable.com/

The trading card grading market is very hot, some very high end top dollar coins as well. So a company like NGC (or someone like Mr. Hansen) can buy an 1804 silver dollar for example and then issue 100,000 shares of ownership. So an average collector can own a piece of it. Risky maybe, but if they can sell digital imaginary NTF stuff, why not sell a share of something real?

I don't believe more than a very low percentage of collectors would have an interest in this concept.

It will be interesting to see what happens. The overall market for all kinds of assets is changing fast. The majority of collectors simply can't afford a LeBron James rookie card, but they might be able to afford 1% of one, with a nice digital certificate to go with it.

To me, the idea of owning a tiny percentage of a "rare" object has absolutely no appeal. Perhaps young people think otherwise. The whole idea of NTF strikes me as pure idiocy. Again, maybe young people think otherwise.

I wonder if they just bought NGC's ability/potential to acquire debt. They'll borrow to the hilt and use the money elsewhere.

When people start bragging about making a 177% profit in two months you know that the end of that market can't be too far in the future. Don't be surprised if the sports card boom ends up as a gigantic bust.

Historically significant sports memorabilia will always be coveted.

CLCT was a public company for decades, fear of Wall Street is nonsense.

Plenty of growth ahead for collectibles, otherwise high profile investors would not give a hoot.

@Goldminers said:

@291fifth said:

@Goldminers said:

@WCC said:

@Goldminers said:

@WCC said:

@Goldminers said:
Future Collectable ETF?

If so, it will be a small one.

This is another concept that already exists.

https://collectable.com/

The trading card grading market is very hot, some very high end top dollar coins as well. So a company like NGC (or someone like Mr. Hansen) can buy an 1804 silver dollar for example and then issue 100,000 shares of ownership. So an average collector can own a piece of it. Risky maybe, but if they can sell digital imaginary NTF stuff, why not sell a share of something real?

I don't believe more than a very low percentage of collectors would have an interest in this concept.

It will be interesting to see what happens. The overall market for all kinds of assets is changing fast. The majority of collectors simply can't afford a LeBron James rookie card, but they might be able to afford 1% of one, with a nice digital certificate to go with it.

To me, the idea of owning a tiny percentage of a "rare" object has absolutely no appeal. Perhaps young people think otherwise. The whole idea of NTF strikes me as pure idiocy. Again, maybe young people think otherwise.

I also initially thought owning a tiny percentage of a collectable asset would have minimal appeal, but there is money to be made, (or lost), and that is what matters to some. NGC and Collector's Universe are in the business of making money on collectables, coins, cards, baseball bats, etc., and all I am pointing out is the collectable business is changing, like it, or not

This $36,000 baseball card, linked below, was put into an IPO on the collectable site 2 months ago, and 241 investors bought the 3,600 shares of it. These trade daily, and if another "collector" wants to own the card outright, they can make offers. If the majority of the shareholders agree, they sell the card and collect the money. In the example below they sold this for $100,000 and made a 177% profit in 2 months. I have read about similar examples of high end coins that sold at auction, and they sometimes get re-sold for large profits within months as well.

So while I agree with several above posts that most collectors prefer to own or collect things outright, there is a small relatively new market out there for fractional ownership, basically no different than owning stocks in companies.

This is an example:
https://app.collectable.com/assets/sandy-koufax-1955-topps-123-rookie-card-27

Small, maybe depending upon the definition of small. On the NGC forum, there is a thread related to Mark Salzburg's article. I and one other contributor (who works in private wealth management with the very affluent) took the opposite position.

At the time the thread was active, anyone could buy CVX (Chevron) with a 7.5% yield while any security instrument of this type (regardless of the format) will either have a zero or (noticeable) negative yield, depending upon the structure. Now CVX yields about 5% having risen somewhat less than 50%.

So as a novelty or a substitute for small scale penny stock trading, maybe it has potential. Anything more than that, longer term I'll take the "under".

Pump those submissions fees boys! That part I don't like even if it is only a percentage of the efinancial picture to them as it affects me - the rise in fees has not stopped but definitely slowed my submissions. Otherwise I couldn't give a rat's behind if they are sold....

@Boosibri said:

@cameonut2011 said:
Hmm… Many large corporate investors will milk out every red cent they can get from a company, deplete its resources/run it to the ground, and then file bankruptcy. I hope that’s not what we’re seeing with the big 2 as it would void all existing guarantees and cause instability in the rare coin market.

Again, stripping out expenses is not the reason why these companies are being acquired. To generate a 20% rate of return for a 5yr holding period, the value of the company has to grow 2.5x. This would be the low end of what a PE firm would tolerate in this instance. A good return of 5x would require ~40% annual growth. They aren’t going to generate that by cutting expenses, the business has grow!

That's going to be pretty tough to pull on the coin end.

When someone in the coin industry sells their company for half a billion bucks, they deserve to have their name spelled right. Kudos. And congrats, too, to those rumored owners of rumored non-voting stock whose non-votes were heard clearly too. I hope that's so cryptic that only @MrEureka can non-verify it, but a few later posters on this thread have shown the financial dexterity consistent with understanding the subtext. Wheels within wheels.