New here abs looking to start building a collection- need advice!
Rolex
Posts: 6 ✭
Hello everyone, just joined this community and looking forward to learning from all of you.
I’m in the starting process of building a collection of coins and my interests primarily reside in bullion coins. I would like to start building an early 20th century set of bullion coins starting with the St. Gaudens $20 then the $10 Eagle, the $5, and the $2.5. I’m not as interested in rarity as I am in the attractiveness of the coins. I’d rather have common years with a MS-65 grading with great luster than a rare year with a mediocre grading and luster.
That being said, what years would this community recommend looking at for the coins I’m looking for? What grading is the “sweet spot” per say between cost and beauty of the coin? I’ve been mainly doing my browsing on eBay, is there any other sites that you’d recommend?
Thank you!
Comments
Bullion refers to coins whos value is in the metal, or melt value. It sounds more like you are interested in type coins with numismatic value rather then bullion or melt value. The condition of the coin doesnt really effect bullion as its all about the weight of the metal.
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IG: jb_rarities
I guess I'm interested in coins that are made from gold or silver but have numismatic value to them versus simply melt value. Early 20th century particularly.
For Gem Type coins;
SG $20 MS65: 1924, 1928, 1927
Indian $10 MS65: 1932, 1926, 1910-D
Indian $5 MS64: 1909-D, 1912, 1915
What is the general price range I'll pay for each if you don't mind?
I would recommend a "red book" they have a gold/double eagle guide.. When collecting coins.. ALWAYS read the book 1st
it will answer 99% of your questions, including this one 
https://www.cointalk.com/media/albums/the-2020-20-large-cent-set.1855/
Price depends on attractiveness. For a nice 65 Saint, you're talking $2500+
For a $10 Indian in 65 more like $3000
For a 64 $5 maybe $1750
There is a price guide right on this site to find your "sweet spot". This is very much a personal choice. A nice 63 Saint that is $200 over melt is a good value for some while others would rather pay $5000 for a 65 CAC.
(1) Are you buying graded or raw?
(2) Are you interested on one per series, or more than one per series?
(3) You mention "an early 20th century set of bullion coins starting with the St. Gaudens $20 then the $10 Eagle, the $5, and the $2.5." If you get a Capitol Holder for your "collection" then your options are (A) a 4 coin set where you can include a $2.5 Liberty Head; $5 Liberty Head; $10 Liberty Head; and $20 Liberty Head; or (B) a 4 coin set where you can include a $2.5 Indian Head; $5 Indian Head; $10 Indian Head; and $20 Saint Gaudens; or (C) you can go all in and include a few 19th Century gold coins with your 20th Century Gold to put together the 12 piece set that includes the 8 coins listed in (A) and (B) above, plus the Type I, Type II and Type III Gold Dollars, and an example of the $3 Gold Coin. Of those 4 additional coins, the Type II dollar and the $3 are the most difficult holes to fill.
(4) I will let the others speak to price and grades to shoot for, as your stated desire for MS65 is not what many would consider a bullion play. The closest you are going to get to spot, at least in MS65, will probably be a 1908 NM, 1924 or 28 Saint. The other gold coins (of all denominations) will have a significant premium in MS65.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
I get what you mean by 'bullion' coins.
Selling a coin like this MS63+ Saint would likely elicit comments like 'that's pretty much a bullion coin' from some dealers at a coin show.
I'm going for a set of classic gold coins too and I need a $3 and a $4
and then I'll be done.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Welcome to the board! You have indicated you want graded coins so you need to decide if you want coins graded by PCGS, NGC, or ANACS (or ICG). Some folks stick with one company, others buy based on the coin.
For me, gold coins have two sweet spots for a balance between cost and attractiveness. MS 63 to 65 or AU 55 to 58. I don’t find many low MS coins attractive, and I like the high AU grades because they have almost all of the design details and many still have great luster.
Best way to get an idea on what works for you is to go through ebay sold listings and find coins that you find attractive and see what they sold for.
I have nothing more to offer you that hasn’t already been said. I just want to say welcome to the forum.
1) Graded only as I'm weary of buying raw coins and getting a fake. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what to look for.
2) Unsure what you mean.
3) I currently have an NGC 20 coin holder that I am using. Eventually I may try to do an entire set that has all 19th and 20th century gold coins.
4) I guess my terminology is off...I meant bullion in just terms of being a gold coin. I don't want scrap, I want numismatic value. In my very limited experience, it seems like there is a fairly significant jump in price from an MS64 coin to an MS65.
I've heard that it is best to stick to PCGS or NGC. It probably doesn't matter which one to me but I'll stick to either of these two.
Have been looking on ebay, definitely a lot of options which is nice.
It is known that holders have been counterfeited also and some are scary good. For best protection against fakes, deal with a well established dealer with a good reputation.
Collector
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A classic 8 piece gold set in PCGS/CAC MS 64 grade would be a very attractive set indeed. Just for reference, here is a photo of the various types that make that set up:
For clarification, when I asked "Are you interested on one per series, or more than one per series?" I just mean one of each coin vs. trying to put together a year run; or examples of each time the coin changed (ex. the no motto saint and the with motto saint); or just one saint, one $10 Indian, one $5 Indian, and one $2.5 Indian.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
One of each coin not necessarily the same year.
The trouble with the current market is that bullion is very high priced compared to where it was two or three years ago. Bullion puts “a floor” under the price of the common dates, which some people contemptuously call “widgets.” If the price of bullion goes down, the price for "widgets" will go down, especially for $20 gold coins.
I have been collecting gold coins for almost 60 years. Because of that, I have done very well financially with “widgets” because I was buying gold coins when the government was pegging the value at $35 an ounce. I have common dates, rarer Charlotte and Dahlonega coins, early gold (1795 to mid 1934) and quite a bit of stuff in between. My trick has been to buy the coins over time, which has left me dollar averaging them. I buy the highest grades I can afford within reason. I have a couple MS-67 graded pieces, but not many. I stick with smooth attractive Mint State coins for the “widgets.”
Generally, really nice MS-64 graded coins have worked for me. I have never done well with coins below AU-50, even if they are better dates, so I stay away from those pieces. I only buy NGC and PCGS graded coins, and I tend to like PCGS better, but I have not limited myself to them.
Right now, you a basing your buys on the assumption that gold has reached another high price that is not going to drop a lot in the future. If you believe that the price of gold is going to hold steady or keep going up, buy. If you think it’s headed for a fall, hold off. Over time I have collected, I’ve seen $850 gold drop to less than half that. Getting caught up in a speculative buying period can get you in trouble.
we can give advice on that as well.
buy with a return privilege
If you want to buy coins for beauty, the 1907 High Relief $20 gold piece is hard to beat. The coin is very expensive. I nice one will cost you five figures and it's not really rare, BUT it is popular and historic.
President Teddy Roosevelt (in office 1901 to 1909) wanted to improve the appearance of U.S. coinage. He hired sculptor Augustus St. Gaudens to re-design all of the U.S. coinage. St. Gaudens were terminally ill at the time and could only design the $10 gold piece ($10 Indian) and the $20 gold piece (the St. Gaudens $20).
Roosevelt had “thing” for high relief coins and he pushed to mint to make them. The mint made 12,367 of them, but the cost of production was prohibitive. That resulted in the “low relief” St. Gaudens design most collectors and investors buy.
Here is a 1907 High Relief $20 gold.
Here is an example of the "low relief" which was issued from 1907 until the end of the series in 1933.
If the 1907 High Relief is out of your price range, the mint did issued an "ultra high relief" $20 gold in 2009. This coin has the diameter of a $10 gold piece, but is twice as think. Prices are bullion related. I wish I had a better photo, but the coin in the bank.
then I'd stop using bullion to describe what you want..
you want better grade, better eye-appeal common date gold.
eye-appeal.... that means you want CAC approved, graded gold. Having another set of eyes will help to avoid counterfeits. Also, be aware there have been fake holders with fake CAC stickers found out there.
there are charts out there for mintages. You can see which are common dates.
what you're willing to pay is up to you, but you can look at closed auction prices for an idea of what you will spend (don't look at Buy It Now prices)
common date and common graded gold can have that numismatic premium you are looking for, just realize that numismatic premiums can fluctuate with supply and demand. There's no guarantee that premium will stay.
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you can also look up some relevant info on CoinFacts: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts
Good luck Rolex!
@Rolex .... Welcome aboard. Excellent advice detailed above. Gold coins are a favorite of mine, but much like @BillJones, I started long ago when prices were much lower. I recommend you buy the books (i.e. Redbook and one of the books on gold coins), and buy slabbed from trusted sources. Good luck and keep us posted as your collection grows. Cheers, RickO