GTG 1851-C G$1
Pedzola
Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭✭✭
Guess The Grade. What do you think about this tiny coin with huge photos?
1851 Charlotte Gold $1
4
Pedzola
Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Gotta like Charlotte gold dollars… that one strikes me as AU-55.
It's at least an AU-58. I would say that it's in an MS-62 holder.
Oddly enough, the 1851-C gold dollar is probably the easiest Charlotte coin to get in high grade, including Mint State. Notice I said easier to find, but not cheap.
AU-58
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Terrific pics!
It looks MS to me....
I'll toss out a WAG and say 63
62.
They grade those branch mint coins on a curve, so probably as Bill said or higher.
I edited the photos slightly just to make the coin pop a bit more. Left the unedited originals above, but here is a different view. I prefer the black background.
I really like this one. I will give some more time for others to see the thread and respond, maybe post grade tomorrow.
I needed all 3 gold dollars for my type set. This is the first. Rather than getting easy common high grade examples, saw this one and inspired me to try something a little tougher. Will look for an O type 2 and then a D type 3 to have a southern branch mint sub-set.
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Based on remaining field luster, 55
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I sometimes wonder if collectors here pay attention to Forum members like @Mfeld and myself (as well as former dealer/master collector @Billjones). The first two of us were TPG graders. If I take (sorry, you're just the post ahead of me as I type) @Aercus "based on remaining field luster, 55", at what point do people start to take our advice or focus on points where we disagree.
The field lustre on this coin is completely full. Recalibrate.
For the 100th time "if you're that far off, look at a page of 51-C G$1's (or, per another thread today, 1908-D $10's) in 55-62 on the Heritage Archives.
I could get nasty and say I see a few extremely minute rubs on the hair, diadem, etc. but I go with @BillJones and say MS62. If it's in a 58 holder, I could likely doctor it to 62 in an few minutes (after a couple a re-subs failed). The scratch on the jaw is not part of this. And of course, I'd have one of several other dealers send it in on one of their submission. Others using other techniques or secret sauces could also (and likely do better).
I'm not bragging or taunting. That's the industry today. It is what it is. I'm trying to save you from more expensive tuition.
58
62
I’m thinking 62 as well.
Pedzola, you’re on a nice streak of adding some impressive gold to your collection.
58 but could just as easily be in a 61 or 62 holder... nice piece!
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My thoughts on type coins is that you go for the best grade you can find within reason. When I was shopping for time coins, MS-65 graded pieces were priced very high. So I bought this, an MS-64 that a well-known dealer was getting ready to send back for a re-grade. I over paid for it, but at the time it was half the MS-65 price.
Now the MS-65 graded coins are a lot cheaper ...
@ColonelJessup I don’t believe any of the admittedly highly knowledgeable members you mention, including yourself, are batting 1000% on GTG’s. Plus no matter how good the pics may seem — judging luster by pics is a crap shoot. You think 58 is a slim possibility. @Aercus guessed 55. That difference ain’t exactly a bottomless gulf requiring “recalibration” IMO. 🤠
!000%? 100%? "Bottomless gulf?" Not my words or concepts. Let's go with double horse pucky and leave it at that
80% consensus would be exceptional. I'm not humble about being an expert. Want to know how many multi-thousand dollar losses I've taken on a misreading of a coin? Want to know what I've learned?. Judging by pictures is indeed a crapshoot. I think anyone who wants to grade or buy a coin based on a TrueView is at considerably more risk than from many of the images some members post here. And when half the guess on a MS65 O-mint dollar are 62-63 because the ear isn't full?. Time to recalibrate. I am brutal in evaluating my own evaluation skills. Too easy to lose big bucks if I don't. And I still make mistakes.
7 or 8 years of teaching Grading at ANA Summer Seminar have given me more insight into overall grading patterns than you have likely encountered.
When you find the stones to crack out a six-figure coin (1901-S NGC MS66 1901-S 25c), I might have more respect for your opinion of my opinion. BTW it went 67 at our host 1st time through and the premium and profit were "more than adequate".
YMMV
edited after the grade revealed to add:. The brighter picture shows the field lustre as slightly diminished.
Many of the points @SeattleSlammer made turned out to be correct (in this specific instance). And yet, stiil, I experienced his post as snide and attacking. There was no grading opinion whatsoever. Thanks for your contribution.
Hmmmm. Ok, I'm over that now.
I'd like it as a 61, if not for the marks on the chin and 1, and scratches on the jaw and through the 8 ( realizing that these are big pics of a tiny coin ) it's well struck and lustrous, with original surfaces.
However, it does have those marks, and in grade-sensitive areas. Benefit of the doubt would indicate they are from circulation rather than mishandling or.. egad! ... intentional, 55-58 seems fair to me. But I grade tight, having learned a few things over the years 😉
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58 shot AU62
Appreciate the spirited discussion, and opportunity to learn from the experts!
I do the best I can with photos, I have grown to enjoy taking pictures of coins about as much as buying them.
I guess there have been enough comments I'll end the debate.
Many of you were spot on, and always nice to hear that many think it could grade higher. I'm happy to have this one.
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It’s a great coin and I’m thrilled I was only one spot off. I’m no expert but many of my gold dollars are around this grade level and it looked similar. Yours is also nicer than my 1851-c.
Some of the comments on it likely being graded Unc. (a "slider") reminded me of type II gold and how many AU58 were tried for Unc. grades and many succeeded.
Nice coin.
Grading remains an opinion and some opinions are better than others in that there is not an absolute answer.
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Very nice coin!
Yes, I wrote batting 1000% .... as in baseball.
As for a gulf, you replied earlier like a 55 guess in this case was ludicrous. It wasn’t—it was one off the actual grade.
That means you were more than one off the actual grade. You should have gotten nasty.
You don’t say.
Actually, a 55 grade WAS ludicrous, but let's try "quite unrealistically conservative".
In baseball, you may bat "one thousand", but 1000%? Is that batting "ten thousand"
And I explained the various nuances that might change my bid.
But you already know how guilty I feel about so egregiously failing the Forum, and especially you.
"you don't say"? Perhaps I might restate my position. I'm not so humble about my grading skills that I will understate them. Want false humility from someone who worked side by side as an equal with your idols? I'm sorry you never heard of me. Man, I was really something else. I don't think I even considered that until the 2000's. I was simply having the time of my life. Evidently I built up some street cred that didn't migrate to this Forum. So keep on living in the PCGS fan-boy dream world where David Hall is considered to be a world-class grader. Good salesman, especially of himself. Mediocre grader. Revelatory? A world you wouldn't recognize and couldn't imagine.
A couple of centi-millionaires who seemingly don't know or care who Dave Akers was? One who can only read labels?
Can this curmudgeon expect the grace of divine Mercy? Please, Slammer, have at me. I hope you waste even more time than I did writing this.
Sweet piece, @Pedzola. Cherry and choice.
"ColonelJessup" had a very high success rate on properly assessing coins and "getting the grade" he was aiming at; probably the few downgrades he suffered were due to sticking his neck out on high risk coins. He should be on a Blue Ribbon panel of leading grading experts instead of sharing his pearls of wisdom and getting treated like the veriest tyro on online sites.
I appreciate the support. BTW, the two current best graders on this forum would be, IMNSHO, @MrEureka and the long-absent @njcoincrank. My suspicion is that Slammer is jealous because I am so much more articulate than he is when being obnoxious
CJ, obviously the ‘%’ was a twice used typo. But ya got me there I do not dispute. You are appreciated dude—especially when you ramble rant. And I did guess earlier with a non-specific “looks MS” 😎
@logger7 I like the “tyro” comment and think it’s a word that should be used more often.
Nice coin! Late to the party. I don't know these AT ALL but was gonna guess 55 even though can see a bit of luster peaking through. They are so small the original closeup really exaggerates those tiny tiny marks. Looks pretty in the last set of photos and with the trueview set back and I like the grade.
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It looks like both of the TPGs got this one right.
Very nice Charlotte gold piece....and an interesting thread. I would suggest people read the points carefully here. Can be a valuable learning experience. Cheers, RickO
Late to the party, but here are my grades:
The coin in the OP is an obvious 61-62. So is the TrueView coin.
The coin in the slab is an obvious 55-58.
The fact that they are the same coin is irrelevant. We're not grading coins here, we're grading pictures.
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My guess was 61, I wouldn't be surprised with a few attempts to get it there...
Great coin!
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