Need help with a 1955 DDO Lincoln Cent, Experts Please?

MarkW63 · May 16, 2021 1:41PM

I don't want to make the same mistake I made when I bought my first 1909S-VDB.
So, I'd like to have some expert opinions on these three examples.
I'm not going to buy one that not at lest slabbed & graded!
But, of these three how am I doing as far as dancing around counterfeits?
Thanks

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194115408646?hash=item2d322e1306:g:sbsAAOSw8FhghbeF
https://www.ebay.com/itm/384161215333?hash=item5971caf365:g:ArkAAOSwZH1gnEcI
https://www.ebay.com/itm/193734514476?hash=item2d1b7a172c:g:XAUAAOSwiBhf-0Xs

BillJones · May 16, 2021 1:54PM

I would pass on all three of them. If you have up to $1,875 to spend, I'd wait for one that has not been cleaned. All three are nothing but trouble so far as I'm concerned. They are "roach motel" buys. Checking in (buying them) is easy, but checking out (selling them) is not.

The Grey Sheet says an AU-58 is worth $1,550. If that's true, why can't a dealer sell you one for around $2,000?

Finding the 1955 doubled die with a lot of ORIGINAL RED is tough, but brown ones that have not been messed with should be available.

Here's the one in my collection. NGC called this "MS-62, brown" which it isn't; it's a high end AU. This is the sort of color you should be looking for with mint luster showing up under the brown color. I bought this years ago from a dealer who sent it in for ANACS papers, but asked for it not to be graded. I had NGC grade this about 20 years ago.

MsMorrisine · May 16, 2021 1:57PM

The middle one IS NOT slabbed. Why is that even considered?
As with the 09SVDB - do NOT buy details graded coins.
Why are any of these considered?

keyman64 · May 16, 2021 2:03PM

No, no and no.

Stick with problem-free PCGS & CAC Blessed examples.
If you search for something so that you "get a deal," it will be the seller that gets the deal while looking for the sucker that is born every minute. Go for quality, not quantity. If you go to sell a problem coin one day, the only thing that potential buyers will see are the problems and then you will take a massive loss. Why do you want that for yourself?

coinbuf · May 16, 2021 2:03PM

Bad to awful photos of problem coins each of them, don't just walk run away.

MsMorrisine · May 16, 2021 2:25PM

Great Collections has an auction site
Heritage Auctions is another
Stacks Bowers is another

Then there are dealers like The Penny Lady

There are fakes for every coin, but you’ll have little to no trouble with the above.

coinbuf · May 16, 2021 2:40PM

If you want some nice Lincoln key dates I suggest you stop slumming around eBay hoping to find a diamond in the rough and talk to a Lincoln specialist like Andy at Angel Dee's. On his website right now is a gorgeous AU58 for sale, is it cheap no, but as the saying goes cheap coins are not great and great coins are not cheap. Key date coins are the coins you should be willing to stretch for, you will be much happier in the long run.

There is also a PCGS AU55 in an upcoming Stacks auction currently at $750. I do not like the Stacks coin as much as the one Andy has, but by opening up your horizons past just eBay you will find many nice coins sometimes for less than eBay.

mr1931S · May 16, 2021 3:08PM

The third one calls the piece PCGS graded in it's title. If that is the case why is an ANACS slab shown in the images? I would wait for something nicer to come along. One should be able to buy a very nice, no problem example of this error for two grand.

Cameonut · May 16, 2021 3:32PM

Pass x 3. Better pieces out there.

Zoins · May 16, 2021 3:34PM

Agree with the posts above. Get a problem free one.

braddick · May 16, 2021 3:40PM

I, too, would pass, outside of if I had to choose among the three, I'd go with the first one.
There was a member here selling a PCGS DD with a hole, and I did think it was extremely cool. I almost purchased it when offered!

291fifth · May 16, 2021 3:46PM

Pass on all three for the reasons others have already stated.

braddick · May 16, 2021 3:54PM

This is the Angel Dee coin referred to up above. (I am actually impressed with how inexpensive it is compared to problem coins that are not significantly cheaper.)

MarkW63 · May 16, 2021 4:57PM

@MsMorrisine said:
1. The middle one IS NOT slabbed. Why is that even considered?
2. As with the 09SVDB - do NOT buy details graded coins.
3. Why are any of these considered?

Well, I didn't mean to mislead anyone to thinking I was buying one of them, I posted them to see if the selection of them would end up being counterfeits. I have come into a little bit of money and so I'm thinking possibly about purchasing a 55 DDO so, I'm just trying to learn the counterfeits of this coin to be a little better in the know.
I saw the one that said cleaned, (but I didn't see signs of harsh cleaning)
The price could end up under $2,000
It doesn't look to be a counterfeit,
And I know how this goes with coins, If your looking in the $1,500 range you'll be led to go to the $1,800 range, if you jump to the the $2,500 you get pushed to go $3,000
Lets chat about the first one for under $2,000
Okay, its clearly marked cleaned that's a strike against its value, but is it a FAKE/COUNTERFEIT?
If its cracked out of the slab and put into a coin flip holder will anyone 40 years from now be able to tell it was ever cleaned?
So, the question is, pretend I bought door number one, would I have gotten a counterfeit?

Jimnight · May 16, 2021 5:12PM

I would pass on the three of them.

MsMorrisine · May 16, 2021 5:22PM

@MarkW63 said:

If its cracked out of the slab and put into a coin flip holder will anyone 40 years from now be able to tell it was ever cleaned?

this seems like the real reason you are buying problems coins. finding ones that "you might not know it is."

I can't help in those regards.

MarkW63 · May 16, 2021 5:31PM

@braddick said:
This is the Angel Dee coin referred to up above. (I am actually impressed with how inexpensive it is compared to problem coins that are not significantly cheaper.)

I placed an inquiry/reserve for this coin, I like it, its PCGS graded, so now I wait for a response.
Thanks for the post.

logger7 · May 16, 2021 5:41PM

These should not be that hard to find certified as nice high end AUs or above average RB Uncs for $2k-$2500. Years ago a jeweler came into a coin show looking to sell his 55 ddo to raise legal fees for a drug bust he was hit with. I paid him $2K and the coin graded MS62 RB but was a hard sell on ebay; I sent it to cac and they offered me reasonable money.

MarkKelley · May 16, 2021 7:28PM

There are better coins around that are better deals. Problem free coins cost just a little more than this. Over the past several months I sold two of these (yes, on eBay), both no problem coins.. The first was a NGC AU-58 for $1800 and the other a PCGS AU-55 for $1700. Keep looking and be patient.

MarkW63 · May 16, 2021 7:43PM

@braddick said:
This is the Angel Dee coin referred to up above. (I am actually impressed with how inexpensive it is compared to problem coins that are not significantly cheaper.)

Boy, you're in trouble with my wife
This coin is No Longer Available thanks to you. (its mine now)
This until recently was just a bucket list coin for someone like me, but with a turn of events its become a reality.
So, I really do appreciate you posting that coin listing.
And I also appreciate all the forum members who post comments & contribute content in my discussions
We've gotten LOTS of fake/counterfeits 09S-vdb taken down off ebay.
Thanks to everyone!
Mark

LanceNewmanOCC · May 16, 2021 8:54PM

@MsMorrisine said:
1. The middle one IS NOT slabbed. Why is that even considered?
2. As with the 09SVDB - do NOT buy details graded coins.
3. Why are any of these considered?

.
what is that quote one of our forum buddies has, "the pain of poor quality is remembered long after the joy of low price is forgotten." - something to that effect

MarkW63 · May 16, 2021 9:42PM

@MsMorrisine said:

@MarkW63 said:

If its cracked out of the slab and put into a coin flip holder will anyone 40 years from now be able to tell it was ever cleaned?

this seems like the real reason you are buying problems coins. finding ones that "you might not know it is."

I can't help in those regards.

Well, I mean if its graded as CLEANED but I like the finish, and cleaned lowers the price to a point that gets me what I would call a nice "Genuine" rare coin to add to my collection then I'm happy.
Now, to the point of cleaned could someone tell it 40 years later.
I meant a coin grading company, I've watched many youtube video's and I've saw at lest two different ones where the person got a coin graded and it came back listed as CLEANED, they stated they felt pretty certain that the coins had not been cleaned. So, they cracked the slabs, sent the exact coin to another grading service and when the coins came back they were not listed as being cleaned, they did have the remains of the cracked open slabs with the label reading "Cleaned"
So, my thinking was that if the cleaned coin has a pretty nice finish on it (not sanded, or pencil eraser) then left in a coin flip to farther turn color (naturally) could it possibly pass as a non cleaned coin (40 years later)?
Now I have seen slabbed coins marked as "Cleaned" that look awful and I wouldn't want them in my collection.
So, if I know the coin is listed as cleaned, but has a nice finish, very good detail, and a lower price then at this point in my life I'm happy with the coin in my collection.
Now, I could end up in tears to find I spent say $1,000 on what was supposed to be a "Genuine" to later find out its a fake/counterfeit.
Keep in mind that I'll never be a high end coin collector, I'm only trying to complete or build a pretty nice Lincoln collection, and I get that there is almost ALWAYS far better grades of everyone of the coins in my collection. I had no intentions on EVER buying a 55 DDO, for me, my family, its just a childhood fantasy coin, never a reality of owning one, even a bad one!
And its a hard sell to get the wife to the reality that coins like this are considered an investment, she's having trouble with me buying two copper pennies that in total is going to cost me $2,900 when our primary car only cost $ 4,100
LoL, I bought my first NEW push mower in over 40 years just a couple of weeks ago for $420.00 and I had a wresting match with myself for a week before I bought it, of course the wife was all in on that.
Maybe when I get up in the morning I'll find that buying that 55 DDO from Angel's coins was just a dream LoL!
In my neck of the woods (others around me) would say, "I thought you were smarter than that, you've lost your marbles completely if you paid $2,000 for a frigg'in penny"
Thanks for your post!

ricko · May 17, 2021 6:01AM

I would pass on all three.... And the response you noted from non-collectors is typical. Your caution is well founded. It is that very reason that you should stick with a reputable dealer (Such as Angel Dee). Also, given your caution around other expenses - expenses that would be considered necessary for the home/family - I can see the justification for further caution. Good luck, Cheers, RickO

JBK · May 17, 2021 6:26AM

It seems to me that you are both overthinking certain aspects and underthinking others.

Some random thoughts...

@MarkW63:
So, they cracked the slabs, sent the exact coin to another grading service and when the coins came back they were not listed as being cleaned.

Will some lightly cleaned coins cross into lower tier slabs as problem-free? Maybe. But you still have the same coin, just different plastic.

So, my thinking was that if the cleaned coin has a pretty nice finish on it (not sanded, or pencil eraser) then left in a coin flip to farther turn color (naturally) could it possibly pass as a non cleaned coin (40 years later)?

I would not assume that the passage of time will necessarily erase signs of cleaning, even if the only real indicator is some funky color.

Now, I could end up in tears to find I spent say $1,000 on what was supposed to be a "Genuine" to later find out its a fake/counterfeit.

If you are buying a top tier slab, this is not a consideration. Unless, if course, you think the whole slab is fake. In that case, just check the # and any pics on the TPG's site.

And its a hard sell to get the wife to the reality that coins like this are considered an investment, she's having trouble with me buying two copper pennies that in total is going to cost me $2,900 when our primary car only cost $ 4,100.

I understand your challenge, but the 55 DD is one of the great classics, and while your car will depreciate down to scrap value, the coin will hopefully hold its value or increase.

Finally, if you are determined to get an impaired coin to make it more affordable, then all that really matters is that you are happy with it. But, you need to be realistic about what you are buying and not hope or assume that you can erase the impairment with a new slab or the passage of time.

And...whether or not you can imagine a future that far forward, someday you or an heir will sell that coin, and a decent honest example will be easier and more profitable to sell.

MarkW63 · May 17, 2021 7:33AM

@JBK said:
It seems to me that you are both overthinking certain aspects and underthinking others.

Some random thoughts...

@MarkW63:
So, they cracked the slabs, sent the exact coin to another grading service and when the coins came back they were not listed as being cleaned.

Will some lightly cleaned coins cross into lower tier slabs as problem-free? Maybe. But you still have the same coin, just different plastic.

So, my thinking was that if the cleaned coin has a pretty nice finish on it (not sanded, or pencil eraser) then left in a coin flip to farther turn color (naturally) could it possibly pass as a non cleaned coin (40 years later)?

I would not assume that the passage of time will necessarily erase signs of cleaning, even if the only real indicator is some funky color.

Now, I could end up in tears to find I spent say $1,000 on what was supposed to be a "Genuine" to later find out its a fake/counterfeit.

If you are buying a top tier slab, this is not a consideration. Unless, if course, you think the whole slab is fake. In that case, just check the # and any pics on the TPG's site.

And its a hard sell to get the wife to the reality that coins like this are considered an investment, she's having trouble with me buying two copper pennies that in total is going to cost me $2,900 when our primary car only cost $ 4,100.

I understand your challenge, but the 55 DD is one of the great classics, and while your car will depreciate down to scrap value, the coin will hopefully hold its value or increase.

Finally, if you are determined to get an impaired coin to make it more affordable, then all that really matters is that you are happy with it. But, you need to be realistic about what you are buying and not hope or assume that you can erase the impairment with a new slab or the passage of time.

And...whether or not you can imagine a future that far forward, someday you or an heir will sell that coin, and a decent honest example will be easier and more profitable to sell.

WoW! thank you for all the work and time you put into breaking down my post, that was very thoughtful for sure!
I'm 64 years old now so a 40 years future sell what have to be some other family member like Grandson (Well step-grandson)
As for the 40 year rejuvenation I didn't mean an expectation, but rather maybe it could slide buy some grading service.
All this talk about cleaning coins reminds me of my elderly mother (she passed away Saturday) setting in her recliner going through her little bag of old common dates pennies cleaning them. It was just a way for her to pass the time and at 92 years old to her the pennies were better because they were prettier, they were all cleaned up, even behind the ears. I think she just put a dab of hand lotion on them and rubbed it in with her fingers, then wiped them off with a cleaned dish towel.
If she had a had a rare dated penny that she had cleaned I would have loved to have it. (Good By Mom)

MsMorrisine · May 17, 2021 11:59AM

if you are going to crack a holder and submit a problem coin in hopes of it coming back straight graded, you better know the difference between the two.

MarkW63 · May 17, 2021 12:21PM

@MsMorrisine said:
if you are going to crack a holder and submit a problem coin in hopes of it coming back straight graded, you better know the difference between the two.

No plans for me doing that, but I see collectors on ebay doing it pretty often. One guy wasn't happy with like a MS63 grade so he cracked the slab, sent it somewhere else and he claimed to have gotten the MS65 that he thought it should be.
At present I have no plans on every getting a coin graded, I mean the only collection I have is the Lincoln cents and for my purpose (my goal) is to get all the cents into the coin slots in the album, so for me, a lose coin in a slab by itself doesn't fit my goal. Thirty plus years of a goal of completing the album is hard to rethink and go a different direction. That's likely the reason all but say three or 4 of the coins were gotten RAW not slabbed, but those were not considered "Rare" either
But, my comment about the coin getting regraded 40 years down the road was a just by chance someone in the family wanted to get it graded.
Now, breaking the 55 DDO out of its slab is going to be more of a problem for me just because of its net value, so It'll be slabbed for a while after I get it while I torment over putting in my album or leaving it in the slab

JBK · May 17, 2021 12:24PM

Get a Chinese fake for the album and keep the slabbed one in plastic.

MarkW63 · May 17, 2021 3:37PM

@JBK said:
Get a Chinese fake for the album and keep the slabbed one in plastic.

Now that's a thought.

MsMorrisine · May 17, 2021 3:44PM

don't support the counterfeiting "industry"

MarkW63 · May 17, 2021 3:57PM

@MsMorrisine said:
don't support the counterfeiting "industry"

LoL! another really good point.

ChrisH821 · May 17, 2021 4:04PM

The one you selected was an excellent choice!
If you want one for an album, maybe you can find one with a scratched reverse for that.

MarkW63 · May 17, 2021 5:59PM

@ChrisH821 said:
The one you selected was an excellent choice!
If you want one for an album, maybe you can find one with a scratched reverse for that.

Well, buying one of these for me is a once ion a lifetime purchase. I'm pretty sure it will end up in my coin flip album, I don't have one of those exposed folded out punched paper album's, mine's a notebook style that holds those 2"X 2" coin flips.
I cut my 09S-VDB out of it PCGS slab and put it in the album, as well as at lest two other coins. I did keep the slabs for each one, I cut the circle out with a Dremel tool rather than "Cracked them out".

logger7 · May 17, 2021 6:02PM

This is one I imaged in a dealer's case a while back:

I heard dealer's and regular people tell about stories of where these came from, I believe somewhere in New England in a hoard. At coin shows there are usually some to choose from.

MarkW63 · May 17, 2021 7:23PM

@logger7 said:
This is one I imaged in a dealer's case a while back:

I heard dealer's and regular people tell about stories of where these came from, I believe somewhere in New England in a hoard. At coin shows there are usually some to choose from.

You know that many years ago (like 40 years) there used to be coin shows come through my area a couple of times a year, but I've not seen or heard of one even near me in I'll say over 20 years or more.
Here is my next focus for my Lincoln collection.
I'd like to have all the Lincoln proofs back to 1936 beyond that is back to dreaming again, I have all of them except these,
1942
41
40
39
38
37
36
Then I need upgrades for these that I have that are like grade G-4 (an upgrade that I'm talking about is like to at lest VF)
1910-S
1911-D
1911-S
1912-D
1912-S
1913-P
1913-S
1914-P

Catbert · May 18, 2021 9:46AM

Protect your purchase. Leave it in the PCGS slab!

You made the right choice in buying the Angel Dees coin. I see very little downside in your purchase. I would like to own that coin too!

ElmerFusterpuck · May 18, 2021 1:01PM

You did the right thing by staying away from the 3 problem coins, Angel Dees is a top notch outfit. It looks like prices have been moving up on this popular variety, I was lucky to get a lustrous PCGS AU-58 CAC piece for around 1600 a couple of years ago.

MarkW63 · May 18, 2021 2:33PM

@Catbert said:
Protect your purchase. Leave it in the PCGS slab!

You made the right choice in buying the Angel Dees coin. I see very little downside in your purchase. I would like to own that coin too!

Not For Sale
I got the coin this morning,
It was suppose to have been a Signature Required Delivery (One Day), the postal service just left it on my front porch, the wife was up and she saw him drive away, so she check to see if they left a package, YEP!
The price listed on the coin covered everything, to my door.
They responded SUPER fast to my emails,
They shipped SUPER FAST!
They have a 7 day return policy if you have a problem with a coin!
I'm really happy with Angel Dee's coins.

MarkW63 · May 19, 2021 4:33AM

@MsMorrisine said:

@MarkW63 said:

If its cracked out of the slab and put into a coin flip holder will anyone 40 years from now be able to tell it was ever cleaned?

this seems like the real reason you are buying problems coins. finding ones that "you might not know it is."

I can't help in those regards.

Well, if they're slabbed and state "Cleaned" I would know that its cleaned.
What I mean is that if its a "Cleaned" coin, but its surface to me is NICE and hasn't been harshly cleaned to the point it doesn't look "Cleaned" to me and being marked "Cleaned" puts the price of a coin that has less wear and more detail in the price range of an un-cleaned coin more worn with less detail then I'm in on buying it.
And corroded coins for me fall into the class of actual "Damaged" (worse than badly worn ones) and I pass those up (Lincoln Cents that is).
Thanks for you comment!

MarkW63 · May 19, 2021 5:07AM

@MsMorrisine said:

@MarkW63 said:

If its cracked out of the slab and put into a coin flip holder will anyone 40 years from now be able to tell it was ever cleaned?

this seems like the real reason you are buying problems coins. finding ones that "you might not know it is."

I can't help in those regards.

Also, if ANY US coin as been cycled through the Los Vegas area, its likely to have been "Cleaned" its my understanding that all the Casinos uses, or used massive coin cleaners.
My other point is that I'm finding people claiming to have had coins graded that came back listed as "Cleaned" but when they got them re-graded they were not labeled as such. I take that to possibly (??) mean that there may be some coins that 'Might' have been cleaned but lands in as questionable, which might it time become a little more difficult to determine if it was cleaned 40 years earlier.
So, when I'm talking about "Cleaned" I guess I'm talking about just barely crossing that threshold of "cleaned" My wife finds "Cleaned" coins in the washer machine all the time after doing my laundry, and if they were in the pocket of my work pants then they've likely been "Chemically" cleaned

MarkW63 · May 20, 2021 8:37PM

Well, I had heard my 92 year Mother mentioned that she had been cleaning pennies, I didn't know the extent of what that meant, I knew it was just a way to pass time as being able to do other normal things was getting more limited.
She passed away this past Saturday, we had her funeral yesterday.
Come to find out that she had small jars of pennies to yet go through, but she had a number of pennies "Cleaned & Rolled" and stashed away but as of yet I've not found any older than 1940, she didn't know anything about collecting, she just saved pennies.
I have no plans on going through the 1960's and up rolls, but I did go through the rolled 40's & 50's and I can tell these have been cleaned, my older brother couldn't, he thought Mom had rolled them I guess new.
Now my 09S-VDB though graded is listed as "Cleaned" I'll say it doesn't look cleaned to me, or to say, I'm very happy to have such a rare coin in my personal collection that is in that good of condition.
Here are the rolls of my mother's 1940 "Cleaned Pennies" I just looked through. They're going to get re-rolled, I'm going to mark the wrappers just like Mom did, 40's / 50's / 60's etc... and cash them in, thousands of cleaned US Lincoln wheat cents.
I didn't find one keeper date to add to my collection.

nwcoast · May 20, 2021 8:56PM

Very sorry for your loss.
It sounds like your mom has her heart in the right place.
My mom passed away at 92 just a few months over a year ago.
Best to you and your family.

Need help with a 1955 DDO Lincoln Cent, Experts Please?

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