2021 Peace and Morgan Dollars Designs

Zoins · December 20, 2020 9:02AM

Any idea what the 2021 Peace and Morgan Dollars are going to look like yet?

I've seen a bunch of articles but not images yet.

Here's the 2021 Peace Dollar and Quadruple Slug from north of the border.

PerryHall · December 20, 2020 9:34AM

They need to use the Morgan and Peace design from 1921 to properly commemorate these coins. Change the date and copy the original design and planchet specs.

ricko · December 20, 2020 3:33PM

I agree that using the same designs, different dates would be the best course. However, I think the Mint has different ideas....Not sure, but just a feeling. Cheers, RickO

DennisH · December 20, 2020 3:43PM

@PerryHall said:
They need to use the Morgan and Peace design from 1921 to properly commemorate these coins. Change the date and copy the original design and planchet specs.

I very much agree!

Crypto · December 20, 2020 3:43PM

High Relief and/or proof like please

koynekwest · December 20, 2020 3:51PM

@DennisH said:

@PerryHall said:
They need to use the Morgan and Peace design from 1921 to properly commemorate these coins. Change the date and copy the original design and planchet specs.

I very much agree!

As do I.

bluelobster · December 20, 2020 3:56PM

I like the 1921 Peace design and would like that replicated, if they do that, I'm sure they would replicate the Morgan as well. I have to say, the portly lady liberty profile on the Morgan, was one of my least favorite liberty designs.

MsMorrisine · December 20, 2020 4:13PM

PL or DMPL ?

messydesk · December 21, 2020 8:59AM

@Zoins said:
Any idea what the 2021 Peace and Morgan Dollars are going to look like yet?

It's well within the Mint's capacity to make them look like Peace (high relief) and Morgan (not 1921) dollars, respectively. Whether they do that or opt for caricatures that make for easier production of gimmicky finishes will determine my purchase strategy.

LGTheCoinAnalyst · December 21, 2020 6:48PM

I am very close to the people directly involved in this and can assure you the plan is to faithfully reproduce the original 1921 designs for both coins.

Zoins · December 21, 2020 6:54PM

@LGTheCoinAnalyst said:
I am very close to the people directly involved in this and can assure you the plan is to faithfully reproduce the original 1921 designs for both coins.

It would be great to have Morgan business strikes like the originals, both BU cartwheels and DMPL. Those were glorious coins, but I'm not sure if the Mint does either any more. I haven't seen either in recent coins, but I have my fingers crossed!

LGTheCoinAnalyst · December 21, 2020 7:05PM

BU and Proof yes including HR Peace dollar, but I don't know about DMPLs. Details are still being worked out.

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ · December 21, 2020 7:41PM

@LGTheCoinAnalyst keep us updated! 😀😎

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ · December 21, 2020 9:06PM

didn't know about these:

"The Philadelphia Mint did not strike Proof versions of either design for general collector sale in 1921, though several controversial special strikes are known for the 1921 Morgan dollars — the so-called Zerbe Proofs and Chapman Proofs, supposedly specially struck for two of the most prominent of numismatists of the era." [from https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/monday-morning-brief-for-dec-21-2020-finally-some-good-news]

anybody have one of these, or are these like super duper saudi oil barron rare?

messydesk · December 21, 2020 9:26PM

@ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ said:
didn't know about these:

"The Philadelphia Mint did not strike Proof versions of either design for general collector sale in 1921, though several controversial special strikes are known for the 1921 Morgan dollars — the so-called Zerbe Proofs and Chapman Proofs, supposedly specially struck for two of the most prominent of numismatists of the era." [from https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/monday-morning-brief-for-dec-21-2020-finally-some-good-news]

anybody have one of these, or are these like super duper saudi oil barron rare?

The Chapman proofs, with a dozen or so known, come up on auctions once in a while -- mid to high 5 figures or so. The "Zerbe proofs" seem to be specially curated business strikes. They do look special, but still a far cry from what a proof should look like, and there's no record of them being struck at Zerbe's behest.

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ · December 21, 2020 9:29PM

thanks, @messydesk!

olympicsos · December 22, 2020 4:35AM

@LGTheCoinAnalyst said:
I am very close to the people directly involved in this and can assure you the plan is to faithfully reproduce the original 1921 designs for both coins.

The original 1921 Morgan design isn't that great compared to the 1878-1904 Morgans. I'm happy if they do a HR Peace $1 that's faithful to the 1921 design (and can be better struck with the technology now), but for the US Mint to get the Morgans right, it has to be based on the 1878-1904 Morgans. Only problem with that is that the original hubs have been destroyed for the 1878-1904 Morgans.

messydesk · December 22, 2020 7:15AM

@olympicsos said:

@LGTheCoinAnalyst said:
I am very close to the people directly involved in this and can assure you the plan is to faithfully reproduce the original 1921 designs for both coins.

The original 1921 Morgan design isn't that great compared to the 1878-1904 Morgans. I'm happy if they do a HR Peace $1 that's faithful to the 1921 design (and can be better struck with the technology now), but for the US Mint to get the Morgans right, it has to be based on the 1878-1904 Morgans. Only problem with that is that the original hubs have been destroyed for the 1878-1904 Morgans.

The 1921 design was a hasty copy from a coin. Fortunately, the 1964 Morgan hubs still exist, and they are more faithful to the 1879-1904 design.

DBSTrader2 · December 22, 2020 7:44AM

I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison of the 1878-1904 vs 1921 Morgans, to see the differences everyone's referencing. Anyone have a good pic?

WAYNEAS · December 22, 2020 8:05AM

so should I now go onto the mint web site and keep clicking the refresh button until one comes up so I can add it to my bag?
Best to start early before the "bots" take over or am I already too late? LOL

messydesk · December 22, 2020 9:45AM

@DBSTrader2 said:
I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison of the 1878-1904 vs 1921 Morgans, to see the differences everyone's referencing. Anyone have a good pic?

I have a few. Here's a sharply detailed 1886 along with the nicest 1921-S you'll ever see. If all you ever saw was the earlier dates, a 1921 would look fake. I don't have huge images at my disposal at the moment. You might want to go to CoinFacts and blow some of those up for a closer look.

Higashiyama · December 22, 2020 10:04AM

And to see the progression towards mediocrity, add the old SF mint commem reverse to the sequence.

SaorAlba · December 22, 2020 1:48PM

I am prepared for low relief, spaghetti haired monstrosities, but hoping for better.

Zoins · December 22, 2020 5:37PM

Looks like I found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tJnSkgC6to

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ · December 22, 2020 6:46PM

not for me .... 😒

DBSTrader2 · December 25, 2020 11:09PM

Boy, that 2-headed "tribute" coin looks SO imbalanced!! Angles of the head tilt are disconcerting, as is the Peace head's "overhang" into the legend. Everything about it just screams "hack job!"...............

kiyote · December 25, 2020 11:31PM

I would be surprised if they used anything other than a .999 planchet

DCW · December 26, 2020 2:09PM

When are they supposed to be sold? Any ideas?

DNADave · December 26, 2020 2:30PM

Puke. !
That’s awfully bad.

Cook Islands put out some crazy stuff

oih82w8 · December 26, 2020 2:41PM

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ · December 26, 2020 3:13PM

@DCW said:
When are they supposed to be sold? Any ideas?

can't imagine anytime before June, as the legislation has just recently been moving through approval process - I would guess fall maybe? pure speculation

SaorAlba · December 26, 2020 3:30PM

When I think of the Cook Islands, I think of this - all they are famous for:

BStrauss3 · December 26, 2020 6:24PM

The law says...

(1) IN GENERAL.—The designs of the coins minted under this Act shall honor either the Morgan dollar or the Peace dollar, as follows—

(A) MORGAN DOLLAR.—The coins honoring the 100th anniversary of completion of coinage of the Morgan dollar shall have an obverse design and a reverse design that are renditions of the designs historically used on the obverse and reverse of the Morgan dollar.

(B) PEACE DOLLAR.—The coins honoring the 100th anniversary of commencement of coinage of the Peace dollar shall have an obverse design and a reverse design that are renditions of the designs historically used on the obverse and reverse of the Peace dollar.

Rendition is an interesting term, it doesn't - in law - mean copying, translating, interpreting...

https://dictionary.findlaw.com/definition/rendition.html

although it does in common usage:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/rendition

The law says not less that 0.900 silver, so 0.999 would be acceptable.

And it doesn't say they can't do a spaghetti hair monstrosity; nor that they have to simply reproduce the 1921 coins.

BStrauss3 · December 26, 2020 6:29PM

Further, it ain't a done deal.

The act was presented to the president on 12/24.
He has 10 days not including Sundays to sign or veto.

Except the act dies when the new Congress is sworn in on January 3rd.

Zoins · December 26, 2020 8:45PM

I'm glad these coins represent the non-partisan Lady Liberty, Columbia

koynekwest · December 26, 2020 10:21PM

Ditto.

BLUEJAYWAY · December 27, 2020 4:35AM

I always wonder how much these retread designs stimulate new collectors into the hobby fold.

Zoins · December 27, 2020 4:45AM

@BLUEJAYWAY said:
I always wonder how much these retread designs stimulate new collectors into the hobby fold.

The ability to get a top graded specimen for a reasonable price can stimulate new collectors in classic designs.

When you're new, it's easier to buy a PR70 or from the Mint in OGP than trying to figure out what old Morgan or Peace dollar to get, and potentially regretting it.

Onastone · December 27, 2020 2:37PM

@Zoins that's real? Two headed monstrosity? DNADave beat me to it...> @DNADave said:

Puke. !
That’s awfully bad.

Zoins · December 27, 2020 9:37PM

@Onastone said:
@Zoins that's real? Two headed monstrosity?

It’s legal tender but not from the US. It's from the Cook Islands, a nation in the British Commonwealth under the Queen of England.

Since it's legal tender, I wonder if PCGS will slab it.

https://doublelibertysilverdollar.com/

Here's another from Cook Islands.

https://getdoublelibertydollars.com/

Still waiting for the US designs.

RedStorm · December 28, 2020 4:18AM

The mint has previously done a re-creation/duplication of the reverse of the Morgan already, correct? On the San Francisco mint commemorative. Did they do a good job with that one? My recollection was it was “ok” but a little flat and lifeless...

Namvet69 · December 28, 2020 4:32AM

No thanks, I'll pass. And only a half oz. to boot! Peace Roy

Zoins · December 28, 2020 6:10AM

@BStrauss3 said:
The law says not less that 0.900 silver, so 0.999 would be acceptable.

An interesting effect of using .999 could be the creation of monster toners like Silver Eagles.

291fifth · December 28, 2020 6:50AM

They should limit production to 1921 of each.

Zoins · December 28, 2020 6:56AM

@291fifth said:
They should limit production to 1921 of each.

That should be low enough to get us to a 19.21 second ordering window

jerseycat101 · December 28, 2020 7:21AM

Is there any indication when the offerings will be made available by the Mint?

Zoins · December 28, 2020 7:38AM

@jerseycat101 said:
Is there any indication when the offerings will be made available by the Mint?

Not that I've seen but I'm hoping for some news from @LGTheCoinAnalyst

@LGTheCoinAnalyst said:
I am very close to the people directly involved in this and can assure you the plan is to faithfully reproduce the original 1921 designs for both coins.

Higashiyama · December 28, 2020 8:05AM

@RedStorm said: The mint has previously done a re-creation/duplication of the reverse of the Morgan already, correct? On the San Francisco mint commemorative. Did they do a good job with that one? My recollection was it was “ok” but a little flat and lifeless...“

Flat and lifeless is a precise description. I sure hope they do better with these. The matte finish used on modern commems is also an issue-just not right for a Morgan!

KARacing · May 3, 2021 2:34PM

FYI there are a lot of updates on the US Mint site regarding look, availability and the law behind it.
It appears that it will be pretty faithful to the original...

Check out:
https://catalog.usmint.gov/morgan-2021-silver-dollar-with-cc-privy-mark-21XC.html?cgid=2021-product-schedule
and some of the news links to get more details.

MsMorrisine · May 3, 2021 2:45PM

@LGTheCoinAnalyst said:
I am very close to the people directly involved in this and can assure you the plan is to faithfully reproduce the original 1921 designs for both coins.

the 1921 reverse has 4 rays, not 3, under the word "ONE"

MsMorrisine · May 3, 2021 3:20PM

this looks a little 1921-ish or is it just me?

2021 Peace and Morgan Dollars Designs

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