CACflation
batumi
Posts: 885 ✭✭✭✭
I recently saw a coin I once owned a few years ago in an upcoming auction which did not pass CAC when I submitted it-through a major auction house a few years prior. The coin is a beautiful and rare key date in a popular series-I will not list it as it is soon coming up for auction. The coin was in good hands as it was not played with in any way other than a gleaming plus graded and CAC endorsed holder, new number though the pedigree remains. It now is the finest known PCGS example-pop.-1 with two others in the straight grade. On a lesser piece, that would not have raised my eyebrows, as I realize no service regardless of reputation can bat 1000-I see a few lesser pieces endorsed in a full grade higher holders when they were not in the previous holders. I am curious if others on the forum have had a similar experience.
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POOF
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Lotta CAC love lately SMH. Who has the dead horse GIF
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Yes, I have had similar experiences with the TPGs. I have owned a couple early coins that were body bagged when I submitted them and appeared in straight graded holders later. In both cases I landed on my feet because I knew who would buy the coins despite the fact that they had been wrongly condemned.
This is the known, exploited, and continuing weakness of grading without standards. Cheers, RickO
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Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
No matter what people think, they do sell for more if you are into that.
Opinions, opinions, opinions.
Grading is an merely an opinion provided at a point in time. Some opinions are better than others. Some opinions as to the grade of a coin can change over time. Its simply not about gradeflation all the time... Was the initial opinion reasonable at the time? Seems there are can be differing views as to a grade. Just because TPG grades the coin at x grade does not make it a fact... it is not a math problem with an absolute answer. Grading will always have a subjective component.
This is simply how it is...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
If I could sum it up this way:
Many think coin grading is a math problem or an algorithm.
It isn't.
If you don't want the wrong opinion, don't send your coins in. Leave them in 2x2's everyone is happy.
Yes that sort of thing happens and many have probably endured.
If a CAC sticker is important to you, save yourself a lot of grief and just pay the "CAC Tax" and buy a slab that already has a CAC sticker.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Since a “+” was added to the previous grade, wouldn't PCGS/CACflation be a more accurate thread title?😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Only one solution for this, there needs to be an independent review company who evaluates all previous grades and reviews. A sticker for the sticker.
Only here it seems the CAC thing seems a big deal. My take a lot of them heavily (probably buried lol) invested in them. Setup at the recent Houston Spring Show did not see a single CAC coin especially in the inventory of a major wholesaler or a dealer I have known for a long time who had 4 cases of slabbed coins probably averaging $500-$1000 or more for most. Nor was I offered any slabbed coins from the public. Having sold out all my CAC I might have bought some say around 73 pct CPG. Then of course the task of getting all the money.
It’s nice to see a coin you sold in a new holder with a sticker huh. Life goes on so now it’s on the new owner get all the money out of his investment. I would not envy him.
I would be curious what is CAC CPG MV for your prior coin vs a non CAC? The CDN app will tell you. On many CAC mkt value premiums can be substantial. But everybody knows you then have to find somebody who will pay the money. But then If the MV run up say around $700 (1911-D MS65 Saint for example) not bad $15 investment getting it cac’d.
A CAC -CAC.
PCGS should start making the slabs larger so we have more room for the stickers.
If any of you crack anything out, let me know. I just want to collect the stickers.
Note, I like PCGS and CAC. I don't always agree with either one of them. But it gives me great confidence when buying sight unseen. It also makes it easier for me to determine the value with a near certainty that was not possible during the raw, mail-bid days.
I've bought around $100k in coins sight unseen in the last two years. Thanks to TPGS's and CAC, I'm not buried in anything and have sold 75% of that for a profit. I would have bought about 5% of that without the slab and the sticker.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I personally think there is bias and favoritism across the whole spectrum of evaluating coins by every entity involved.
From Redfield to GSA, there has always been a promotional aspect to holders and stickers.
Modern evolution to a better system.
If it was the same coin in same holder then my 🕷 senses would tingle a bit, and tick me off as well. Easily tracked by serial number.
In this case, you gotta laugh... or cry.
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Only here? You need to get out more and broaden your horizons. The overall market (including that for CAC coins) is far greater than “here”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I like your selling point and was their w $25 k buying cash hoping some CAC would walk up at my price. Besides that I am more focused in new frontiers of low pop World and Currency. I cited empirical material examples at a well attended major show in one of the nations largest cities which is good enough for me lol.
Did you consider that your wholesaler didn't have CAC in his wholesale inventory because it was easier to retail them? Or, similarly, that he can't acquire such items because no one will sell to him at the sub-wholesale level.
CAC is a major market force. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but it is silly to deny it. Greysheet CAC pricing is largely based on ACTUAL DEALER BIDS on the CDN Exchange. It's not a fiction.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Oh I don’t disagree or deny. But it does take somebody with the funds, interest, bullish outlook to be involved in the CAC market (vs bullion area for instance) - CAC CPG is real. Not to mention blockbuster auction records CAC coins realized. I had 25k buying cash there hoping find some nice CAC. But of course at my price. On something like a 1946-S MS65 generic $110 MV WLH no it would be silly expect that be CAC rofl. However on something like the example I cited of the 1911-D MS65 Saint the CAC premium vs non CAC around $700. that’s a different animal.
As far as the wholesaler who owns a shop in another city perhaps any CAC coins he has likely are at the shop at full retail. But more likely the owners of that material go the auction house route in selling. As far as his material at the show my best guess that stuff walked in shop at a below bid level. He was busy all show at his table with mainly dealers I bought a few myself. I try to get setup in bourse room early as possible have early crack at stuff of interest including his. The guy with the 4 cases of slabs probably bought 2 dozen coins from the wholesaler. As He was nearby saw him price them then took a look at his stuff. Then got in a conversation with an ancient coins dealer at my table. Numismatics is an area of diverse paths.
In a really wealthy area like LA I would expect to see considerably more CAC at shows like $1000 plus ish coins. And I would wager they pay well for them.
I think CAC has done an amazing job not changing its standards and not creating CAC inflation. CAC has reviewed over a million coins. It would be shocking if there were not a few examples here or there where a coin got stickered as set forth in the OP. By and large that hasnt happened on a significant scale in the coins I collect. I know this because the CAC population has remained remarkably stable in those series I focus on. For the average collector it would be a mistake to focus on the small number of exceptions.
Numerical grades are an opinion.
CAC stickers are an opinion.
Opinions change.
Dave
I find it difficult to believe that there was not one CAC'd coin at the entire show. I do not live in an area that is any "richer" than Houston and at the local monthly show last month of the thirty or so sellers setup at least half had one or more slabbed coins with CAC stickers. I am not surprised that you would not see any in the case of a wholesaler.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
If the wholesaler has any have not seen them at shows. He does a big business and is constantly busy.