Crazy price for 1961 ms 66 fs nickel.
robbylu52
Posts: 287 ✭✭✭
Have you seen this crazy offering for a 1961 Jefferson nickel for $17,000. I thought this was a coin you put in a bubble gum machine lol. Seriously though I would buy a 1916 d Mercury dime ms 64 fb. What do you guys think. What happened to collectors buying rare dates instead of ms 67-68 Morgan’s.
What do you guys think?
1
Comments
1881 s Morgan’s that is
The market is what it is.
Some dates are very hard to find with full steps. You may not want that nickel but it is more rare than a16-D dime which you can easily find in an hour, any day of the year.
I rather buy an unc Bust $1/2
BHNC #203
I collected Full Step Jefferson Nickels for a number of years until I became disenchanted with the way that both PCGS and NGC interpreted both the numerical grade and the step detail. this is not meant to be critical of those tpg's, but with PCGS in particular there is a very well defined outline of what Full Steps are in their own Coin Grading book. I reached a point where I couldn't reconcile the difference between that definition and what was in their graded holders. I still have more Jefferson Nickels than any other coin, they're just all raw.
understanding that, if a 1961 Jefferson Nickel is properly graded as having Full Steps it is a valuable coin and well worth the price noted by the OP. consider that 73,640,100 coins were struck and only 23 have been certified by PCGS as having Full Steps. the coin series is popularly collected and those collectors who are serious tend to have the means to pay these high prices. also, make no mistake about the fact that collectors search for this date to no avail at a time when the reward is great. the rarity of the date in FS is real.
I would ask the OP and others a simple question: Why is it OK to justify this high price for coins you understand and enjoy, yet insist that there's something amiss when collectors pay these prices for coins you don't understand or enjoy?? speaking only for myself, I would never buy a 1916-D Mercury Dime in any grade for any price and I think I own one Bust Half-Dollar and maybe 1-2 Morgan Dollars, those just aren't coins that interest me.
the difference is clear, I don't feel a need to come here and bitch about those coins when they fetch high prices. buy what you like and welcome to the forum.
That Jefferson with FS in a high grade is indeed rare. Try finding one, then perhaps you will gain an appreciation for the value. I have noticed that frequently, collectors who are focused on other series, are often amazed at the value of coins that are not within their interest segment. Cheers, RickO
Well said @keets. Collect what you like. Don’t criticize others for what they collect.
PCGS price guide at 20k for one of the 5 known 66 examples. Still no full step example of the 60-d Jeff. Anyone remember PCGS removing the only known FS example from their holder?
yeah, that was about 10 years ago and I think Wondercoin was somehow involved with a client of his.
To each his own. Didn’t mean any disrespect to anybody. I just think the inherent rarity of a coin is being displaced by exaggeration on esoteric designations such as full bands full bell lines full head etc. so in my thinking I would rather own a 1942/1 in ms 64-65 than a 1945 fsb
Mercury in 64-65, or a 80-90% full head 1927s quarter than a more common date in full head. Rare coins will always be in demand and hold their prices. What will a ms 68 1881s be worth in 20 years. Jmop. Good luck to all in their collecting pursuits.
Possibly JustHavingFun?
I believe that's the guy, I know he was living overseas at the time and bought the coin with the intention of making things right.
Okay so the Jefferson is very rare in fs it still is a 1961 modern Jefferson which is a common coin. So is a 1945 Mercury dime a common coin. Key Mercury dimes are genuine and inherently rare no matter what the grade, with or without fsb.
This is just my own opinion and thinking about the hobby. Don’t mean to demean anybody’s collecting niche.
The "full step" bit is just another example of a successful promotion in coin collecting. I never bought into it and have no interest in it to this day.
Glad someone agrees with my thought process. Thanks for your comment.
I invite all comments from my fellow collectors. This a forum of free opinions for discussion not personal attacks
Key Mercury dimes are NOT RARE. They are more scarce than common mercury dimes, but there are still tens of thousands of them.
You can choose not to care about full steps, but the natural extension should be that grade never matters. Would you pay the same for an UNC 16-D dime as you would for a VG 16-D dime? After all, they are both 16-D dimes and "equally rare".
Like it or not, conditional rarity is a thing. You can choose not to care. You can choose to only collect VG coins because conditional rarity is irrelevant, but the market is the market. The best way to lose money on coins is to ignore the market.
Key Mercury dimes are rare especially in higher ms grades. This is a fact period wether or not you want to believe it
There are many areas of numismatic that others are extremely passionate about which are of absolutely no interest to me.
There are a few areas that I'm passionate about that others think are nuts and overpriced.
To each their own. Collect what you want. I'm not going to criticize or question someone's purchase just because it isn't something I'm into. If someone is excited about an acquisition, be it $10 or 10m, be happy for them.
The "ultra high grade coin for my registry set" is another example of a successful promotion in coin collecting. It is also another bit I never bought into.
Most Merc collectors hold the 45 philly full bands example in high regard, fetching mega money. Isn’t this the exact same scenario as the ‘61 full step Jefferson?
This is an interesting topic - part of the broader topic of what drives collector interests and why, and what trends may emerge. Condition rarity has been a topic on these boards for 20 years! When discussing the sometimes huge increase in price associated with a single grade point, there was sometimes a refrain “people pay for quality”, which was somewhat unsatisfactory, since a prime example of an MS64 might still go for far less than an MS65. These discontinuities have diminished somewhat due to plus grades and CAC, which is arguably good for collectors.
With regard to FS, FH, FSB type designations, it would be interesting to contemplate an alternate universe in which these are given percentage ratings, say, two decimal points. Probably this would bring down the value of the 100 % full step, while raising the value of the 93 % coin?
@robbylu52 "Have you seen this crazy offering for a 1961 Jefferson nickel for $17,000."
Just because a coin is offered doesn't mean it will sell for that price.
As someone that had 2 1961 MS-66 FS I can tell you they don't sell for price guide value.
This is true. Real true. No doubt true. This is a lock true.
Did I cover them all?
Pete
$2340 for a HA auctioned MS65 FS in February 2021. One of 11 for that grade in PCGS universe.
Very few recorded sales for any FS from that year/mint in past decade.
Somebody has set a happy price.
Their coin, their price.
TBH... with a pop of 5 and 11 in the next grade down... Can't blame them.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
You answered your own question. You said "okay so [this] Jefferson is very rare in fs.... " This is why it costs so much---it is very rare in this condition.
You mentioned the 16-D merc as being rare, however there is nothing even remotely rare about a 16-D merc dime. As Keets noted you can find one within an hours search 24/7. Many true full step Jefferson nickels are indeed rare, they just don't enjoy the same promotion effect that coins like the 16-D merc or 09-SVDB Lincoln have benefitted from.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
There is a difference between key date and rare. A rare coin may not be a key date and key date may not be rare.
And 1961 FS nickels are RARE IN HIGHER MS GRADES. Same thing.
LOL. I'm not so sure @keets will be happy about being confused with me.
Most key dates are not rare, Mercury Dimes included. You could go to pretty much any coin show, stand in a random spot on the bourse, and always be within 20 feet of a key date Mercury Dime. What they are is expensive, because the supply is outstripped by the demand.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
The price of key date coins such as the 1909s vdb penny and 16d Mercury dime is also tied to their popularity and demand so even though the population is somewhat high they always will be important to collectors and be sought after even if you can find them easily
You can’t equate a 1961 nickel with key date rarities as they are in their own league. The 1955 double die penny 1918d 8/7 nickel for example are major famous rarities even though they are error coins and in a somewhat different category than regular key dates. The 16d dime 1909s vdb 1927s quarter etc. proof gold, rare early 19th century type coins. These are the blue chip coins
Can even justify the price of dcam Franklins as they are not only very rare they have amazing visual eye appeal even they are late date common proofs
There's nothing wrong with not being interested in high grade nickels- I'm not. Where you're going to run into difficulty is trying to convince the people who are that they should stop.
Go to any coin dealers with a readily available 16d dime and a 1961 nickel fs and see which one they are most interested in.
Or a 1909s vdb and see which one sells immediately
You probably will have a 1916-d to offer them but you wont have the 1961 FS
Not saying the 16d dimes are super rare in high grades. Would rather buy a 1926s Mercury in 66fb very low pop semi key than a 1916d dime in 67 fb with a pop of 10 even as their maybe resubmissions
The way coins are "equated" are by market prices. A high grade 1961 FS nickel is worth a lot. What if I said I collect only proof gold and 1916-d dimes are common coins from the 20th century that are overpriced and only proof gold is truely worth the price? It's clear you like mercury dimes and dont appreciate jeff nickels---fine. Others feel differently. To each their own.
These coins are rare but that alone doesn't justify the price. DEMAND does. Evidently, there are enough people interested in 61P FS Jefferson's that create a 5 figure price. I've never been terribly interested in Jeff nickels myself but to each their own.
I agree with the OP about the "full" whatever thing. After collecting Merc dimes some years ago the idea of "FB" soured on me as many of these coins were NOT full struck....they just had full bands. Since then I've pretty much stayed away from the "full" designations. You can put together a nice set of Mercs or Jeffs or whatever without worrying about the "full" designations. But, again, to each their own.
jom
You are contradicting yourself. You are interested in condition rarities if they are Mercury dimes (including FULL band designation) but not Jefferson nickels (FULL step).
If you understand the 66FB 1926-S Merc, you should understand the FS 1961 Jefferson - even if you don't want one.
Personally, I don't want either one. But I'm not trying to force everyone to agree with me. I always defer to the Market. It's smarter than me.
So if you pick a MS66 FS out of a mint set... you wont try and maximize value?
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
I am not contradicting myself. My starting point is rare regardless of fb fs fh fbl. A 1926s is a fairy rare coin in high grade ms with or without full bands. A 1961 nickel is worth almost nothing in ms 66 unless it has the so called full steps.
So if DLRC is asking $16,000 as an opening bid, seems astronomical to me
So if I found a 1961 nickel with almost 90% full steps it would be worth virtually nothing but add fs designation and it is now $16,000?
Same can be said for Merc dimes.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
The solution is easy; don't buy 1961 nickels with full steps.
This argument isn't any different for the people who hate toned coins and can't understand the associated premiums.
A 26-D quarter without a FH is painfully common; there are only a couple dozen in FH. A 65FH (if you can find one) will cost well into the 5 figures.
The beauty of coin collecting is nobody is forced to "buy into" anything. There are always people that will.
Two coins both in the same holder and same grade---one has a CAC approval and the other doesnt. The CAC coin is worth double. Does that bother you? A 1916-d dime is worth 39,000 in ms66 but worth $65,000 in ms66fb. Does that bother you? I'm just not sure why the 1961 nickel example bothers you so much?