Years ago there was a collector on the forum that collected Saints. His handle on the forum had Saint in the name. What happened to that guy? If I remember, he had an extensive Saint collection.
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@relicsncoins said:
Years ago there was a collector on the forum that collected Saints. His handle on the forum had Saint in the name. What happened to that guy? If I remember, he had an extensive Saint collection.
@relicsncoins said:
Years ago there was a collector on the forum that collected Saints. His handle on the forum had Saint in the name. What happened to that guy? If I remember, he had an extensive Saint collection.
@relicsncoins said:
Years ago there was a collector on the forum that collected Saints. His handle on the forum had Saint in the name. What happened to that guy? If I remember, he had an extensive Saint collection.
@relicsncoins said:
Years ago there was a collector on the forum that collected Saints. His handle on the forum had Saint in the name. What happened to that guy? If I remember, he had an extensive Saint collection.
This coin is a true gem! Breaking the world record in 2002 for being the most valuable coin ever sold, this specimen has a story unlike any other United States rarity.
Very true.
Due to the unique circumstances and rarity of the 1933 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle, PCGS is taking the unusual step of, at the auctioneer’s request, grading and certifying, but not holdering this rarity in PCGS’ tamper-evident holder. The winning bidder of the coin may submit it to PCGS for holdering to provide state-of-the-art security at no additional charge.
Previously, PCGS has only reserved non-holder certification to just one other rarity, which is the Walton specimen of the 1913 Liberty Nickel graded PCGS PR63.
Amazing that these two coins were certified but not holdered.
@relicsncoins said:
Years ago there was a collector on the forum that collected Saints. His handle on the forum had Saint in the name. What happened to that guy? If I remember, he had an extensive Saint collection.
Great pictures of a unique gold coin. Has more dings than I expected, but the reverse is very clean. I do agree with the grade though... the extreme magnification makes it look worse than it would be in hand. Cheers, RickO
@ricko said:
Great pictures of a unique gold coin. Has more dings than I expected, but the reverse is very clean. I do agree with the grade though... the extreme magnification makes it look worse than it would be in hand. Cheers, RickO
It’s not “unique”, other then with respect to being legal to own. When there’s more then one of something in existence, it’s not unique.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes there is chatter from unfortunate handling. Still, Wow!
btw the owners of the other 1933 saints never should have giving the coins to the Government to have a look.
My opinion and stick'n to it.
@metalmeister said:
Yes there is chatter from unfortunate handling. Still, Wow!
btw the owners of the other 1933 saints never should have giving the coins to the Government to have a look.
My opinion and stick'n to it.
What would you have advised them to do? On a practical basis, if they didn’t want to risk doing something illegal, their options were very limited.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Grading her is an insult.
I'd put it in a PCGS holder with a insert that said...
1933 $20
Farouk Weitzman
Couldn't they come up with a better cert#?
00193300?
Look at those rims...She never spent any time in a bag.
@ricko said: @MFeld... I did mean 'unique' as in the only 'legal to own' status.... I will try to be more precise in the future. Cheers, RickO
I knew what you meant, as would many/most other posters. But not everyone would. Edited: And when possible, I think it’s important to avoid possible misunderstandings of that nature.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I can only imagine what this will fetch. We can pick the coin apart all we want but there is exactly one that is legal to own and the history is well known and interesting. The CAC snipes don't belong in this thread.
@ReadyFireAim said:
Grading her is an insult.
I'd put it in a PCGS holder with a insert that said...
1933 $20
Farouk Weitzman
Couldn't they come up with a better cert#?
00193300?
Look at those rims...She never spent any time in a bag.
That’s quite some speculation, considering how such coins were typically stored, that large quantities of Saints have very clean rims and the marks on the coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@CalifornianKing said:
We should start a petition to get the goverment to allow 1933 double eagles, and 1964 silver dollars!
Start it!
People will sign
I am not quite sure how to start a petition. But I did go onto the white houses website and submitted a letter to them. I will post a thing on the forums.
My mom passed away ten years ago but left me this article. That's her handwriting so I have to believe she clipped the article in '57.
Am happy to see the coin go up on the block, but really not happy with the way our fellow citizens had their property seized. ( Long after this article ) Re: Langbords.
There ought to have been a different position taken, after realization more were out there.
Just my opinion. And I'm not in charge, or it would be different.
Alotta chatter on the surfaces. Plus IIRC, alot of the Farouk coins were cleaned?
Why would he clean his gold coins?
Why would anyone clean any coin? I read somewhere that he cleaned his coins, I would wonder if he did and would want to get some experts to look at the coin if I were bidding, just sayin'. There are alot of manipulated coins in graded holders..............
@matt_dac said:
The CAC snipes don't belong in this thread.
What do you mean by snipe? I asked a legitimate question in the rare coin market. Has it been to CAC? I would want to know.
Because of the obvious, tiresome agenda of throwing a CAC grenade into a thread which has absolutely nothing to do with CAC. I was referring to this as the kick off:
I wonder how many high end collectors would pass on buying this coin unless and until it was submitted to CAC and received a green or a gold sticker (some collectors have exceedingly high standards and simply refuse to consider buying coins that do not have a CAC sticker because they do not want to have in their collection a coin that is "low end" for the grade)?<
@steveben said:
awesome coin. weird they did not holder it.
It's actually not that surprising to me if you consider the presentation in the link below. In this setting, I'm guessing some may feel a slab may detract from the specialness of the coin and that the audience may not be limited to coin collectors that are used to seeing a slab.
@metalmeister said:
Yes there is chatter from unfortunate handling. Still, Wow!
btw the owners of the other 1933 saints never should have giving the coins to the Government to have a look.
My opinion and stick'n to it.
What would you have advised them to do? On a practical basis, if they didn’t want to risk doing something illegal, their options were very limited.
interesting. i was under the impression from the extensive langboard thread that it wasn't an option. i thought they were "acquired" from a tpg?
@metalmeister said:
Yes there is chatter from unfortunate handling. Still, Wow!
btw the owners of the other 1933 saints never should have giving the coins to the Government to have a look.
My opinion and stick'n to it.
What would you have advised them to do? On a practical basis, if they didn’t want to risk doing something illegal, their options were very limited.
interesting. i was under the impression from the extensive langboard thread that it wasn't an option. i thought they were "acquired" from a tpg?
Why would CAC sticker matter in a case like this? It’s absolutely one of a kind In legal private ownership the government has no intention of legalizing another. Kinda a bummer that leg is so baggy but other than that WOW 🤩
It's a feather in PCGS hat to have graded such a coin, but I think, slabbed, unslabbed, CAC'd or Not CAC'd have very little influence on the value of such a coin.
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@Zoins said:
Yawn on the CAC discussion. Even TDN collects coins that don’t CAC.
I don’t consider Bruce an extremist on CAC. He is generally fairly reasonable although we disagree on the grading of ultra rarities. He views the grades as a relative ranking rather than a strict representation of condition. In that case we should stop grading all together and just start stating where the coins fall in the condition census (like class rank).
@Zoins said:
Yawn on the CAC discussion. Even TDN collects coins that don’t CAC.
I don’t consider Bruce an extremist on CAC. He is generally fairly reasonable although we disagree on the grading of ultra rarities. He views the grades as a relative ranking rather than a strict representation of condition. In that case we should stop grading all together and just start stating where the coins fall in the condition census (like class rank).
The next sentence of that post expresses my view. I think his position reflects actual market practices although it creates a bizarre special grading scale for ultra rarities and strips the numeric grades of meaning (or at least it creates confusion - MS65 for other issues should approximate MS65 for the 1933s).
The next sentence of that post expresses my view. I think his position reflects actual market practices although it creates a bizarre special grading scale for ultra rarities and strips the numeric grades of meaning (or at least it creates confusion - MS65 for other issues should approximate MS65 for the 1933s).
Is it really Bruce's particular view then, or is it just what exists?
The next sentence of that post expresses my view. I think his position reflects actual market practices although it creates a bizarre special grading scale for ultra rarities and strips the numeric grades of meaning (or at least it creates confusion - MS65 for other issues should approximate MS65 for the 1933s).
Is it really Bruce's particular view then, or is it just what exists?
@ReadyFireAim said:
Grading her is an insult.
I'd put it in a PCGS holder with a insert that said...
1933 $20
Farouk Weitzman
Couldn't they come up with a better cert#?
00193300?
Look at those rims...She never spent any time in a bag.
I am sure that it was in a bag. The important difference is, that bag was never shipped to a Federal Reserve Bank via railway freight
with a truck ride at either end and then a truck ride to a member bank.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
The next sentence of that post expresses my view. I think his position reflects actual market practices although it creates a bizarre special grading scale for ultra rarities and strips the numeric grades of meaning (or at least it creates confusion - MS65 for other issues should approximate MS65 for the 1933s).
Is it really Bruce's particular view then, or is it just what exists?
I think he has pretty much acquiesced to it.
It’s been that way for as long as I can remember, which is admittedly not as long as some.
Back around the time of the first Sotheby’s sale, at least one, and probably two, of the major TPG’s announced that they had assigned a grade to the coin. Does anybody remember who that was/were, and what the grade(s) was/were?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@DarkRage666 said:
So why are these illegal to own compared to other gold eagles?
some, like me, say they are legal to own.
the 1933 DE were ordered melted. it is alleged that some were secretly removed from the mint via illegal means. for further reading read up on the 1933 double eagle story, the Farouk specimen and the Langbord lawsuits.
As much as you might want them to be legal to own - and so do I - saying that they are so would be incorrect. The legal system has spoken and all appeals have been exhausted.
So, will the Feds grab this one up too?
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
@DarkRage666 said:
So why are these illegal to own compared to other gold eagles?
some, like me, say they are legal to own.
the 1933 DE were ordered melted. it is alleged that some were secretly removed from the mint via illegal means. for further reading read up on the 1933 double eagle story, the Farouk specimen and the Langbord lawsuits.
As much as you might want them to be legal to own - and so do I - saying that they are so would be incorrect. The legal system has spoken and all appeals have been exhausted.
So, will the Feds grab this one up too?
Of course not - they already legalized it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@matt_dac said:
The CAC snipes don't belong in this thread.
What do you mean by snipe? I asked a legitimate question in the rare coin market. Has it been to CAC? I would want to know.
Because of the obvious, tiresome agenda of throwing a CAC grenade into a thread which has absolutely nothing to do with CAC. I was referring to this as the kick off:
I wonder how many high end collectors would pass on buying this coin unless and until it was submitted to CAC and received a green or a gold sticker (some collectors have exceedingly high standards and simply refuse to consider buying coins that do not have a CAC sticker because they do not want to have in their collection a coin that is "low end" for the grade)?<
Au contraire, getting a bean or not will tell you something about the quality of the surfaces. Rarity or not, who wants to pay millions for a coin with questionable surfaces. Hence a legit question. If you think this is a 'tiresome agenda', I guess you don't care about surface quality of a coin. I do. Hence my question.
Comments
We should start a petition to get the goverment to allow 1933 double eagles, and 1964 silver dollars!
Start it!
People will sign
Years ago there was a collector on the forum that collected Saints. His handle on the forum had Saint in the name. What happened to that guy? If I remember, he had an extensive Saint collection.
I believe you mean @saintguru
Yes, that's him.
I wonder if he's in the running for this!
If this were a common date Saint and in a 65 slab, would JA sticker it? I wouldn't think so.
My opinion - grade is irrelevant for a coin like this. It's awesome that PCGS got to grade it and put truviews up so that we can get such
Successful BST (me as buyer) with: Collectorcoins, PipestonePete, JasonRiffeRareCoins
I seem to remember a few years back he was selling his collection to pay for kid's college or something along those lines.
Very true.
Amazing that these two coins were certified but not holdered.
Hopefully his kid has made it back 10x for him via Bitcoin
Has it been sent to CAC yet?
Alotta chatter on the surfaces. Plus IIRC, alot of the Farouk coins were cleaned?
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Why would he clean his gold coins?
Great pictures of a unique gold coin. Has more dings than I expected, but the reverse is very clean. I do agree with the grade though... the extreme magnification makes it look worse than it would be in hand. Cheers, RickO
It’s not “unique”, other then with respect to being legal to own. When there’s more then one of something in existence, it’s not unique.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes there is chatter from unfortunate handling. Still, Wow!
btw the owners of the other 1933 saints never should have giving the coins to the Government to have a look.
My opinion and stick'n to it.
100% Positive BST transactions
What would you have advised them to do? On a practical basis, if they didn’t want to risk doing something illegal, their options were very limited.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Grading her is an insult.
I'd put it in a PCGS holder with a insert that said...
1933 $20
Farouk Weitzman
Couldn't they come up with a better cert#?
00193300?
Look at those rims...She never spent any time in a bag.
My Saint Set
@MFeld... I did mean 'unique' as in the only 'legal to own' status.... I will try to be more precise in the future. Cheers, RickO
I knew what you meant, as would many/most other posters. But not everyone would. Edited: And when possible, I think it’s important to avoid possible misunderstandings of that nature.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I can only imagine what this will fetch. We can pick the coin apart all we want but there is exactly one that is legal to own and the history is well known and interesting. The CAC snipes don't belong in this thread.
That’s quite some speculation, considering how such coins were typically stored, that large quantities of Saints have very clean rims and the marks on the coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I am not quite sure how to start a petition. But I did go onto the white houses website and submitted a letter to them. I will post a thing on the forums.
For anyone wondering. I made a petition to unban the 1933 double eagle.
http://chng.it/z9V426GVtK
My mom passed away ten years ago but left me this article. That's her handwriting so I have to believe she clipped the article in '57.
Am happy to see the coin go up on the block, but really not happy with the way our fellow citizens had their property seized. ( Long after this article ) Re: Langbords.
There ought to have been a different position taken, after realization more were out there.
Just my opinion. And I'm not in charge, or it would be different.
What do you mean by snipe? I asked a legitimate question in the rare coin market. Has it been to CAC? I would want to know.
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
Why would anyone clean any coin? I read somewhere that he cleaned his coins, I would wonder if he did and would want to get some experts to look at the coin if I were bidding, just sayin'. There are alot of manipulated coins in graded holders..............
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
Because of the obvious, tiresome agenda of throwing a CAC grenade into a thread which has absolutely nothing to do with CAC. I was referring to this as the kick off:
Yawn on the CAC discussion. Even TDN collects coins that don’t CAC.
I hope to one day buy modern US gold and enjoy the design.
Until then, maples and krugs I guess.
awesome coin. weird they did not holder it. ms65? lol
It's actually not that surprising to me if you consider the presentation in the link below. In this setting, I'm guessing some may feel a slab may detract from the specialness of the coin and that the audience may not be limited to coin collectors that are used to seeing a slab.
Sotheby's presentation of the Stuart Weitzman Collection is just phenomenal
interesting. i was under the impression from the extensive langboard thread that it wasn't an option. i thought they were "acquired" from a tpg?
See here: https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/roy-langbord-divulges-details-on-1933-double-eagles.html
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Why would CAC sticker matter in a case like this? It’s absolutely one of a kind In legal private ownership the government has no intention of legalizing another. Kinda a bummer that leg is so baggy but other than that WOW 🤩
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
It's a feather in PCGS hat to have graded such a coin, but I think, slabbed, unslabbed, CAC'd or Not CAC'd have very little influence on the value of such a coin.
I don’t consider Bruce an extremist on CAC. He is generally fairly reasonable although we disagree on the grading of ultra rarities. He views the grades as a relative ranking rather than a strict representation of condition. In that case we should stop grading all together and just start stating where the coins fall in the condition census (like class rank).
You don't agree with Bruce's view?
Will it still be allowed into a CAC only PCGS registry category? To some that could theoretically be an issue... 😂
The next sentence of that post expresses my view. I think his position reflects actual market practices although it creates a bizarre special grading scale for ultra rarities and strips the numeric grades of meaning (or at least it creates confusion - MS65 for other issues should approximate MS65 for the 1933s).
Is it really Bruce's particular view then, or is it just what exists?
I think he has pretty much acquiesced to it.
I am sure that it was in a bag. The important difference is, that bag was never shipped to a Federal Reserve Bank via railway freight
with a truck ride at either end and then a truck ride to a member bank.
It’s been that way for as long as I can remember, which is admittedly not as long as some.
If you want to change it, go for it
Back around the time of the first Sotheby’s sale, at least one, and probably two, of the major TPG’s announced that they had assigned a grade to the coin. Does anybody remember who that was/were, and what the grade(s) was/were?
Would they throw in an air-tite ?
So, will the Feds grab this one up too?
From the video, it looks like it has a Capital Plastics holder.
Of course not - they already legalized it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Au contraire, getting a bean or not will tell you something about the quality of the surfaces. Rarity or not, who wants to pay millions for a coin with questionable surfaces. Hence a legit question. If you think this is a 'tiresome agenda', I guess you don't care about surface quality of a coin. I do. Hence my question.
SH
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Does anyone have any decent pictures of the NGC MS66 Langboard specimen?