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Reddit user claims to find 1922 High Relief Peace
P0CKETCHANGE
Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
The photos below are from the post — https://www.reddit.com/r/coins/comments/lyn9h7/i_work_at_a_coin_shop_this_was_discovered_within/
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
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Okayyyy....
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
My first thought is that's not even a US Mint product as it's looks like a Chinese Replica.
Just based on pictures looks like a REALLY good counterfeit if it's not legit...
The "IN GOD WE" jumps out as being off right away for me though
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I suppose it's possible.
The E in Peace caught my eye as oddly long.
As well as the S and U coming out from behind the eagle's head quite intensely compared to the PCGS images.
The break in the eagle's neck feathers look a bit intense as well.
I don't have one handy to compare
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
Check this one out. It's the real thing.
Not mine, of course.
Pete
I just looked at the photo of a “medium relief” 1922 in Burdette’s guide book, and those letters look quite similar, so that’s also a possibility. The wear and toning look natural as well. If I found this and the weight was correct I’d be very happy.
Not for me, fwiw
Nice if real. My question is why photograph the coin in that plastic holder?
What I found interesting enough to post this is that one of the Reddit comments links to these diagnostics, and the coin in question seems to fit all of them. It also has that difficult-to-describe "fake" look common to counterfeits, but if you spend time looking at genuine examples including the one @BuffaloIronTail posted, they have a similar appearance.
Don't get me wrong — I am skeptical and think it's safer to assume counterfeit until proven otherwise, but there's certainly a chance, right? Another recent Reddit junk bin find turned out to be an authentic 1792 half disme. Supposedly they'll be sending the Peace Dollar for authentication, so we'll see.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Roger Burdette IS the expert on these.
I doubt a reddit user will just somehow "find" a 1922 HR Peace dollar...
The context that the poster shared is that he works at a coin shop and a coworker who was sorting through culls pulled it.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Back in the 1979-80 silver mania somebody working at a coin shop in Michigan found a circ. Proof 1922 dollar while sorting out a pile of dollars bought in over the counter from various people.
finally sat down and went over the info i have accrued and this reddit coin doesn't match ANY of the proof peace dollars i've examined.
if anyone has the precise number of known dies that have struck 1922 proof/matte or whatever peace dollars, we can lock this down very quickly.
here are the images from the OP for anyone wanting to do their own work.
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Note the long Ray above ONE on the rev. It differs between low, med and high relief. Looks like a circulated proof from afar.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I purchased an odd 1922 Peace dollar awhile back and didn't give it much thought. Now after viewing this thread I found it and it gives me pause.
peacockcoins
B in Liberty looks off to me on coin in question
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Lettering on yours looks mushier than the verified ones. I would suspect a Chinese Replica on that one, but not so with the one in the original post.
Have you weighed this yet?
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Is it possible that wear is the reason the numerals and letters appear thicker than a Regular Strike?
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I have consulted with the expert on these, and he says that it is impossible to say for sure from the pictures I sent him, but that it does have many of the characteristics of the HR and MR 1922 dollars and might be legitimate.
I would recommend that it be submitted to our host.
"Lettering on yours looks mushier than the verified ones. I would suspect a Chinese Replica on that one, but not so with the one in the original post.
Have you weighed this yet?"
I have. It weighs legit, and there is no seam. It is 90% silver, yet I do agree- the lettering is "off" and mushy. The tailfeathers are bold, though. I would classify it as a counterfeit.
peacockcoins
The ZERO and ONE in "ONE" on the reverse of yours look off.
Just my two cents.
Pete
has anyone else noticed the 1 diagnostic that disproves the reddit coin yet?
it is pretty visible and obvious from even just the 1 true proof peace posted in this thread. ha say that 3x fast.
With such a rare coin with a high incentive to be faked due to value I would not be so sure that the coin is real. Such few were minted and even fewer survive. 1 out of a million chance that it is real.
If this can show up at a garage sale, I will believe anything..
And hopefully someday someone will find a $4 gold Stella in a landfill..
what some people will do for the spotlight is amazing, people want their 15 mins of fame and this person is just one of many who will di anything to get that spotlight on them
Always expect the unexpected to happen, as it will anyway no matter what you do
We'll have to wait for confirmation, but the reddit user writes:
"UPDATE: NGC interviewed my boss. Its a discovery coin. It will be the first High Relief Prooflike Business strike. (Something to that nature) The coin will straight grade but havent told us the grade. Id assume there will be an article in the future. Ill update again once I know more. Sorry for the wait."
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Great hair detail in that strike
Rumblings abound this was certified as a medium relief by NGC. Graded problem-free AU.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I don't see enough luster for AU, maybe it looks different in hand?
Could this be NGC's page on the coin? Looks like an AU55, only one in the pop.
https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/peace-dollars-1921-1935-pscid-50/1922-medium-relief-1-ms-coinid-17386
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That would make sense, as the coin has all the pickup points of the medium relief (AKA "modified high relief production trial", j-2020). Assuming it's genuine, that's definitely what it is.
It seems like this would be a difficult coin to fake convincingly. It would certainly be difficult for a counterfeiter to get their hands on one in order to copy it.
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thanks for posting just in case though.
@PocketChange
Thanks for starting this thread. It brought back memories of my posting on a 2014 thread here titled, "1922 High Relief: No True View."
FWIW, here was my posting back then. (I can add that as CaptHenway alluded above, Roger Burdette is "the expert" on these and one of the first things I did after learning of the rarity and controversies surrounding the High Relief Peace Dollars was to go out and get Roger's book. Needless to say there was a time when there was even less recognition of the validity of various of the High Reliefs but Roger at least verified their legitimate existence outside of mint meltings.)
My 2014 posting:
"This has been a fascinating thread. For a significant period of time I have had a 1921 PR62 Satin Proof Peace Dollar in another grading company's holder. If I recall correctly, even back when I acquired it there was some level of controversy surrounding these proofs."
Now that the major grading companies are now holdering these I probably ought to pull mine out of storage.
Here is a link to the referenced 2014 thread.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/10815949#Comment_10815949
It should be be submitted for a professional opinion, that's for sure.
Nice coin if you can find one.
Pete
That is possible, just ask Fred Weinberg. He threw one away.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12637799#Comment_12637799
I remember that. I believe the dealer was Ernest F. Lush who had a shop on Southfield Road at that time.
Yep!
Shazam.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
simply cannot believe they put that in a j-2018 (MY mistake) holder. yet another island i may just be on by myself.
i'll wait as i've seen more than a few coins come out of holders during my tenure here.
discoveries do make my liver quiver but only if they are accurate, including the many i have.
TYVM for the images DD.
What do you find inaccurate about the J-2020 designation?
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
They didn't attribute the coin as J-2018; they attributed it as J-2020. The J-2020 has a different obverse and reverse design than the J-2018. Everything checks out, as far as I can see. They made the correct determination.
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ty. that explains it. i had too many images open and was looking at the J-2018.
rule #1 for me. don't post too early and don't post too late.
congratz to the finder. a BIG congratz.
it is the only one that could be considered and it is the one it turned out to be!
Definitely hats off to the finder - a wonderful find and an amazing coin!
So what was the 1 diagnostic that disproved the reddit coin for you at that point in time?
I started out doubtful and then assumed fake after comparing it to the ususal High Relief die details which didn't quite match, like how far the point of the bust sticks into the 9.
But then I recalled the discovery of the Judd-2020 so-called medium reliefs auctioned a several years ago and noticed that the design details matched. And as @IkesT noted above "It seems like this would be a difficult coin to fake convincingly. It would certainly be difficult for a counterfeiter to get their hands on one in order to copy it."
Makes me wonder if some of the 3,200 were released and still waiting to be found in circulated condition. Or if it is a one-off situation like the other circ 1922 High Relief and probably tied to an insider who got one and later someone spent it meaning it's unlikely to find any more.
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Stack's Bowers press release from 2014:
An Incredible Offering of Peace Dollar Trials Formerly Property of Mint Director Raymond T. Baker
stacksbowers.com/BrowseAuctions/PeaceDollarDiscovery.aspx
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One of the Judd-2020 lots:
1922 Peace Silver Dollar. Modified High Relief Production Trial. Judd-2020. Proof-67 (PCGS). CAC. Satin Finish.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/1-1N8PO/1922-peace-silver-dollar-modified-high-relief-production-trial-judd-2020-proof-67-pcgs-cac-satin-finish
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PCGS CoinFacts page about them:
https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1922-1-modified-high-relief-production-trial-j-2020/97384
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Goldberg auctions were consigned two related non-Judd-2020 High Reliefs also in 2014 from the same source with some additional info:
1922 PCGS graded Proof 67 CAC Approved Matte Finish High Relief
images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=80&lot=1344&lang=1
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1922 PCGS graded Proof 64 Matte Finish High Relief
images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&lang=1&sale=80&lot=1345
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"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin