I may have tracked down (A SECOND ONE) the very hard to find 1988d "Wide AM"? SCOPE PICS

joeykoins · February 8, 2021 12:58PM

Hi guys, yes I think I found it? Mind you, pretty rough, but at least it's the harder one of the two. The Denver is more valuable. Maybe a grade 50-58?
I'll take better pics with my scope later.
Acetone bath later, as well. Thanks

tincup · February 8, 2021 1:13PM

I'm no expert on these... the gap between the A and M does look wider.... but the FG initials do not seem to match the position of the PCGS photo that I just looked at. Based on that... I'd say not.... but get more opinions!!

1630Boston · February 8, 2021 1:15PM

I'm no expert but it looks like it to me @joeykoins

LanceNewmanOCC · February 8, 2021 1:20PM

i agree and after clicking a bunch of your threads, nice you see you have a find.

the odds are very small but i know people that have bought the wide/close AM coins that were taken apart and mated together. forget the term for it just now.

tincup · February 8, 2021 1:36PM

The 'FG' position does confuse me... but like I said.... certainly no expert on these. So if others say it is... then congrats on a good find!

joeykoins · February 8, 2021 1:38PM

This variety is a strange one. I don't know why they call it the, "Wide AM"? This particular one emphasizes more on the "FG" initials. Rather than the two letters, A +M. Whether the G, in FG, happens to be a straight G or a Detailed G. And yes, the ones that appear closer to the building is the winner!

IkesT · February 8, 2021 3:53PM

Joey, your cent is not the FS-901 (RDV-006); it has the common RDV-005 reverse.

Both the RDV-005 and RDV-006 have a wide AM. The Wide AM is not the pickup point for the 1988 and 1988-D 1c FS-901. It is the designers' intials. The Cherrypicker's Guide confused everyone by labeling it that way and the TPG's followed suite. The close AM reverse (RDV-007) was not used on any cents until 1992; it was never used on any 1988 cents.

For the 1988 and 1988-D 1c Fs-901, look for bolder/thicker "FG" initials, and extra serifs at the top and bottom of the stem of the "G". Also keep in mind that several of the coins pictured on coinfacts are incorrectly attributed as the FS-901. Here is one that's correct:

https://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/38290331_174253866_Max.jpg

The images below are from VarietyVista:

http://varietyvista.com/01b LC Doubled Dies Vol 2/Memorial Reverse Design Varieties.htm

joeykoins · February 8, 2021 4:10PM

Scope Pictures

IkesT · February 8, 2021 4:25PM

@joeykoins said:

Scope Pictures

It is RDV-005. Designers' initials are not bold enough and don't have well-developed serifs. Lots more empty space inside the "G" because it relatively thin. Sometimes the RDV-005 can look like it has a faint hint of the bottom serif, as on your example. Also note that the terminal of the loop of "G" hangs farther over the stem on the RDV-005 than on the RDV-006.

LanceNewmanOCC · February 8, 2021 4:27PM

@IkesT said:
Joey, your cent is not the FS-901 (RDV-006); it has the common RDV-005 reverse.

tyvm. when i coinfacted that wide am 1988-d, i just took it's word for it (and was shocked such a creature existed) and was thinking there is only the serif G rev but i should have stuck with my gut.

i've only found one of these but i know there are probably a few handfulls out there with some variations.

that wide am designation probably shouldn't be applied to the fs-901 descript except as a diagnostic, not the premier feature.

coinbuf · February 8, 2021 4:28PM

Does not appear correct from what I see.

joeykoins · February 8, 2021 4:33PM

PCGS Coin Facts

My Coin

I Guess I do see the Difference. Thanks

IkesT · February 8, 2021 4:39PM

You're welcome.

Jimnight · February 8, 2021 4:57PM

tincup · February 8, 2021 5:09PM

Thanks for the info IkesT... clears up my confusion and makes sense now.

keets · February 8, 2021 6:35PM

Joey, acetone on Copper/Bronze should be a no-no.

joeykoins · February 8, 2021 7:57PM

@keets said:
Joey, acetone on Copper/Bronze should be a no-no.

Thanks for the heads up. When I do, I only let it sit for maybe only a few minutes. Then immediately rinse in warm water. Thanks

Coinscratch · February 8, 2021 8:35PM

I found one the other day. And to me the A & M actually look closer on the wide variety. Yours has a bubble on the initial making it look like the right G.

joeykoins · February 9, 2021 1:18AM

A Second One? Fatter?

Is it this Horizontal line that my coins are lacking?

ricko · February 9, 2021 7:10AM

@IkesT.... Excellent information and details.... clears up some confusion I was having.... Thank you, Cheers, RickO

yspsales · February 9, 2021 7:28AM

Years ago I went thru these by the box full.

I swear there is a third die reverse to these.

There would be wide, close and something in between... but it was there.

Maybe I am thinking the 1992.

Nice finds BTW

cmerlo1 · February 9, 2021 10:49AM

Definitely one I look for. I believe the Denver coins are more common that the Philly ones.

IkesT · February 9, 2021 11:35AM

@joeykoins said:

Is it this Horizontal line that my coins are lacking?

Yes, that is the top serif on the stem of "G" that juts out to the left. It is present on the RDV-006, but not the RDV-005. You are right that your coins don't have it.

If you want a study piece for the RDV-006, you can use any cent from 1989 to 1991. The vast majority of 1992 cents also have the RDV-006 (the rare 1992 & 1992-D Close AM have RDV-007). The 1998-2000 Wide AM FS-901 cents also have the RDV-006.

IkesT · February 9, 2021 11:50AM

@cmerlo1 said:
Definitely one I look for. I believe the Denver coins are more common that the Philly ones.

It is actually the other way around - there are more of the Philadelphia than the Denver.

VarietyVista lists the known dies for these varieties:

1988 1c RDV-006 (FS-901) - 7 known dies
1988-D 1c RDV-006 (FS-901) - 3 known dies

http://varietyvista.com/01b LC Doubled Dies Vol 2/1988PRDV0061.htm
http://varietyvista.com/01b LC Doubled Dies Vol 2/1988DRDV0061.htm

The VarietyVista page layout makes it easy to overlook this information. You can go through the different dies by clicking the top right link:

cmerlo1 · February 9, 2021 12:06PM

Thank you!

@IkesT said:

@cmerlo1 said:
Definitely one I look for. I believe the Denver coins are more common that the Philly ones.

It is actually the other way around - there are more of the Philadelphia than the Denver.

VarietyVista lists the known dies for these varieties:

1988 1c RDV-006 (FS-901) - 7 known dies
1988-D 1c RDV-006 (FS-901) - 3 known dies

http://varietyvista.com/01b LC Doubled Dies Vol 2/1988PRDV0061.htm
http://varietyvista.com/01b LC Doubled Dies Vol 2/1988DRDV0061.htm

The VarietyVista page layout makes it easy to overlook this information. You can go through the different dies by clicking the top right link:

LanceNewmanOCC · February 9, 2021 12:14PM

@cmerlo1 said:

VarietyVista lists the known dies for these varieties:
1988 1c RDV-006 (FS-901) - 7 known dies
1988-D 1c RDV-006 (FS-901) - 3 known dies

that is impressive considering how low the pops seem to be.

wonder if that means these are a lot of leftover dies with short lives? i'll have to look at some more pics for cracks/breaks/gouges/extreme polishing etc.

IkesT · February 9, 2021 12:53PM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@cmerlo1 said:

VarietyVista lists the known dies for these varieties:
1988 1c RDV-006 (FS-901) - 7 known dies
1988-D 1c RDV-006 (FS-901) - 3 known dies

that is impressive considering how low the pops seem to be.

wonder if that means these are a lot of leftover dies with short lives? i'll have to look at some more pics for cracks/breaks/gouges/extreme polishing etc.

Seven dies and three dies might seem like a lot, but think about it this way - the Cherrypicker's Guide estimates an average die life for the Lincoln cent to be 1.4 million strikes. If that's the case, you would need 4,352 dies to strike the 6,092,810,000 mintage of the 1988 cent, and 3,753 dies to strike the 5,253,740,443 mintage of the 1988-D cent.

In other words, you'd expect to find about 1 in 622 1988 cents and 1 in 1251 1988-D cents that are the FS-901. Not the easiest varieties to find, although they do show up on eBay at least semi-regularly (again, watch out for the many misidentified coins!). The circulated examples I've seen are often uncertfied and don't sell for a lot (at least for the Philly), so the low pops may be partly due to lack of demand. The confusion around identification is probably not helpful for the demand, IMO.

joeykoins · February 9, 2021 3:41PM

@IkesT said:

Great info, dude. Thank you

Snowman24 · February 9, 2021 4:36PM

Joey - it looks like like your cent is one of them, but on the rough side. I'm surprised how far this variety has gone since first sending it in.

Here is the article from Coin World that Dr James Wiles used when my i sent him the first one.

joeykoins · February 9, 2021 4:41PM

@Snowman24 said:
Here is the article from Coin World that Dr James Wiles used when my i sent him the first one.

Wow, is this your discovery?
Are you, Jeff, the man? Lol

ms70 · February 9, 2021 5:09PM

What kind of scope are you using?

joeykoins · February 9, 2021 5:21PM

@ms70 said:
What kind of scope are you using?

Very inexpensive but very effective. At Walmart/Amazon.

rec78 · February 10, 2021 12:53AM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@cmerlo1 said:

VarietyVista lists the known dies for these varieties:
1988 1c RDV-006 (FS-901) - 7 known dies
1988-D 1c RDV-006 (FS-901) - 3 known dies

that is impressive considering how low the pops seem to be.

wonder if that means these are a lot of leftover dies with short lives? i'll have to look at some more pics for cracks/breaks/gouges/extreme polishing etc.

Could be that not too many collectors are searching for this variety. I will bet that there are many more to be found and many more that will never be found.

abcde12345 · February 10, 2021 6:37AM

@Jimnight said:

I may have tracked down (A SECOND ONE) the very hard to find 1988d "Wide AM"? SCOPE PICS

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Scope Pictures

Scope Pictures

I Guess I do see the Difference. Thanks

A Second One? Fatter?

Is it this Horizontal line that my coins are lacking?

Is it this Horizontal line that my coins are lacking?

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