Indian Error? PMD? Calling Fred Weinberg

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Coppercolor
Coppercolor Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭
edited January 19, 2021 6:20PM in U.S. Coin Forum



This 1901 Indian at first blush looked like it had post mint damage but for three reasons I question that impression:
1) there is one place where the damage to the rim (in the form of flattening) continues into the face of the coin in the form of pitting or missing planchet
2) It’s not obvious from looking at the side of the rim that there’s damage
3) there is a section of denticles on the reverse that are missing entirely, not just where it could be exposed to a flattening blow

What am I seeing? All comments welcome unless you’re gonna call me late for dinner 😄

I'd like my copper well done please!

Comments

  • amwldcoin
    amwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Was there supposed to be a picture with your post? If so I don't see it.

  • bearcave
    bearcave Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Me neither.

    Ken
  • oih82w8
    oih82w8 Posts: 13,206 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I dunno, what are you seeing?

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • Jimnight
    Jimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    :/

  • lablover
    lablover Posts: 3,731 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Picture Dude!!!! Maybe to much wine Jeff?

    "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
  • Coppercolor
    Coppercolor Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭
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    @lablover said:
    Picture Dude!!!! Maybe to much wine Jeff?

    Well, it WAS downloading them. Let me edit

    I'd like my copper well done please!
  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MasonG said:
    Probably like this one.

    NICE!

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MasonG said:
    Probably like this one.

    NICE!

    Wouldn't mind at all if it was mine, but it's not. Just a picture I found on the intertubes.

  • seanq
    seanq Posts: 8,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Ex jewelry piece, probably in something like a belt buckle. I differentiate it from an encased cent because there are discrete impressions on the rim, as opposed to an overall 360 degree flattening. Either way it is post mint damage.

    Sean Reynold

    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The four leaf clover design overlaps the rim. You can see the stem on the rim below the date.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2021 7:28PM
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    @MasonG said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MasonG said:
    Probably like this one.

    NICE!

    Wouldn't mind at all if it was mine, but it's not. Just a picture I found on the intertubes.

    I sort of half started collecting the Pan Am Expo. I like Bison and I live near Buffalo NY. LOL.

    Expos are fun to collect, but there is just sooooo much stuff.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • seanq
    seanq Posts: 8,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MasonG said:
    The four leaf clover design overlaps the rim. You can see the stem on the rim below the date.

    Taking a closer look, you are exactly right, and I stand corrected. I was looking more at the flat areas at 10:00 and 12:00, which I took as remnants of a pronged holder. Thanks for pointing this out.

    Sean Reynolds

    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:
    I sort of half started collecting the Pan Am Expo. I like Bison and I live near Buffalo NY. LOL.

    Expos are fun to collect, but there is just sooooo much stuff.

    I went through an encased cent phase years ago. Only have a couple anymore, this is the only Indian cent left...

  • NumisOxide
    NumisOxide Posts: 11,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jonathanb said:
    It was an encased cent, in a four-leaf clover holder (likely for the Pan-American Exposition, based on the date). The bases of the leaves overlapped the rim of the coin. If you look at the edge there's a decent chance that it's deformed as well.

    Too bad, it would have decent value in that grade as an encased cent.

    Definitely right.

  • Coppercolor
    Coppercolor Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭
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    @MasonG said:
    Probably like this one.

    Mason G you absolutely and completely nailed it. Right down to the single denticle left un-smooshed where the clove stem intersects with the coin at about 6 Oclock. I was resistant to the idea it was encased because I just couldn't imagine what encasement would leave this pattern..... which is no longer an issue :smiley:

    I'd like my copper well done please!
  • FredWeinberg
    FredWeinberg Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Good morning - I saw my name but obviously not needed for this thread!

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • Jimnight
    Jimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    What @FredWeinberg said.

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Too bad the surrounding piece is no longer with it. In that condition, it is worth more intact than as an individual cent. Cheers, RickO

  • 291fifth
    291fifth Posts: 25,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It will still make a good album coin for a collector on a budget.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • messydesk
    messydesk Posts: 20,814 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It is satisfying to see a question answered in such a manner as to leave no further room for conjecture, complete with a supporting picture, within 30 minutes of it being asked. Goofy as it is, at times, this is a pretty cool place.

    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution

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