2) It's 20/20 hindsight but I would not have arranged it to be shipped at the busiest time of year for the PO. A few years ago near the end of the year I wanted to get a truly one of a kind major error slabbed and I waited until January, and that was pre-Covid.
3) Are you 1000% sure it is bent? I would expect there to be some physical signs of the trauma, which I am not seeing on the obverse.
4) Although it is irreplaceable to you, it does have a value and hopefully was fully insured.
You just allowed me to come up with a theory of how that could happen to the coin. The forklift driver missed his mark and rammed his forks through the container(instead of under) with the coin being at the stopping point once complete compression had been reached. That's the only way I could see that coin being bent....unless they can really crank up the pressure on their sort machines so they force the non compliable thicker packages through. That is one of my gripes with the USPS...ya have to pay extra if a package is too thick(non-machinable) but they still run it through anyway.
@TomB said:
I realize you are frustrated and it is a darn shame about the coin, but the ending quote is waaaaaay over the top.
"I will forever despise them for this."
By far the most likely explanation is that an accident happened and there was nothing malicious. I think the employees are way too busy to be plotting slamming random packages with forklifts or something.
And I completely understand the fact the something essentially irreplaceable was lost, but folks here are just trying to cheer you up a bit. "My irreplaceable coin was run over by a train but insurance paid out" is much better than "My irreplaceable spouse was run over by a train".
2) It's 20/20 hindsight but I would not have arranged it to be shipped at the busiest time of year for the PO. A few years ago near the end of the year I wanted to get a truly one of a kind major error slabbed and I waited until January, and that was pre-Covid.
3) Are you 1000% sure it is bent? I would expect there to be some physical signs of the trauma, which I am not seeing on the obverse.
4) Although it is irreplaceable to you, it does have a value and hopefully was fully insured.
Regarding your 20/20 hindsight - seriously, how many times have you heard of an accident like this, where a very well packaged coin of that size has ended up getting bent? This outcome had an infinitesimal chance, compared to a package getting lost or delayed for an excessive amount of time.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm assuming you must surrender the coin to get paid on the insurance claim. If that's the case can you dissect the slab to see what the actual condition is? Knowing the post office they might pitch it without looking.
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
2) It's 20/20 hindsight but I would not have arranged it to be shipped at the busiest time of year for the PO. A few years ago near the end of the year I wanted to get a truly one of a kind major error slabbed and I waited until January, and that was pre-Covid.
3) Are you 1000% sure it is bent? I would expect there to be some physical signs of the trauma, which I am not seeing on the obverse.
4) Although it is irreplaceable to you, it does have a value and hopefully was fully insured.
Regarding your 20/20 hindsight - seriously, how many times have you heard of an accident like this, where a very well packaged coin of that size has ended up getting bent? This outcome had an infinitesimal chance, compared to a package getting lost or delayed for an excessive amount of time.
Huh? My point was that I would not (and personally did not) ship an irreplaceable coin during the time of year when volumes and risk are highest. How the coin might get lost or damaged is irrelevant to the fact that the risk is higher this time of year, and even more so with Covid.
This particular incident is incredibly unusual, but I strongly suspect that seasonal and Covid factors contributed to it. In any case, had the "normal" seasonal risk been enough to delay the transaction for a month or so, I doubt we'd be having this discussion.
But it's all academic at this point. The coin was ruined and insurance will presumably cover the value. All that's left to do is mourn, complain, and wonder "what if".
I was thinking along the lines of Mark Feld, this is practically a "black swan" event, something with a really, really small chance of occurring. I certainly understand the distress of the o.p.
I have received many,many coins delivered by the USPS and nothing has ever been lost or damaged. This is why we have insurance, to protect against rare, unforseen events.
I have 4 coins in the mail coming to me now, from 3 different locations. I am confident that they will arrive intact.
2) It's 20/20 hindsight but I would not have arranged it to be shipped at the busiest time of year for the PO. A few years ago near the end of the year I wanted to get a truly one of a kind major error slabbed and I waited until January, and that was pre-Covid.
3) Are you 1000% sure it is bent? I would expect there to be some physical signs of the trauma, which I am not seeing on the obverse.
4) Although it is irreplaceable to you, it does have a value and hopefully was fully insured.
Regarding your 20/20 hindsight - seriously, how many times have you heard of an accident like this, where a very well packaged coin of that size has ended up getting bent? This outcome had an infinitesimal chance, compared to a package getting lost or delayed for an excessive amount of time.
Huh? My point was that I would not (and personally did not) ship an irreplaceable coin during the time of year when volumes and risk are highest. How the coin might get lost or damaged is irrelevant to the fact that the risk is higher this time of year, and even more so with Covid.
This particular incident is incredibly unusual, but I strongly suspect that seasonal and Covid factors contributed to it. In any case, had the "normal" seasonal risk been enough to delay the transaction for a month or so, I doubt we'd be having this discussion.
But it's all academic at this point. The coin was ruined and insurance will presumably cover the value. All that's left to do is mourn, complain, and wonder "what if".
And my point was, that even considering this time of year, with such high volume, delays, lost packages, etc., the risk of what occurred was not one that could reasonably be foreseen or even contemplated.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To be blunt. it is a shame that such a thing does happen!
on the other side, what would you have to lose by taking the coin out of the remains of the holder, take a close up from every side you can, and show it to the members here.???
and, while you are at it taking pictures, please show us images of the parcel it came in and, importantly, the packaging and what service was paid to USPS to ship it?????
all this might have a different attitude towards the whole story.
Am NOT trying to imply anything here. Just trying to get more info about some missing details.
looking fwd to the images, sharp and detailed please.
2) It's 20/20 hindsight but I would not have arranged it to be shipped at the busiest time of year for the PO. A few years ago near the end of the year I wanted to get a truly one of a kind major error slabbed and I waited until January, and that was pre-Covid.
3) Are you 1000% sure it is bent? I would expect there to be some physical signs of the trauma, which I am not seeing on the obverse.
4) Although it is irreplaceable to you, it does have a value and hopefully was fully insured.
Regarding your 20/20 hindsight - seriously, how many times have you heard of an accident like this, where a very well packaged coin of that size has ended up getting bent? This outcome had an infinitesimal chance, compared to a package getting lost or delayed for an excessive amount of time.
Huh? My point was that I would not (and personally did not) ship an irreplaceable coin during the time of year when volumes and risk are highest. How the coin might get lost or damaged is irrelevant to the fact that the risk is higher this time of year, and even more so with Covid.
This particular incident is incredibly unusual, but I strongly suspect that seasonal and Covid factors contributed to it. In any case, had the "normal" seasonal risk been enough to delay the transaction for a month or so, I doubt we'd be having this discussion.
But it's all academic at this point. The coin was ruined and insurance will presumably cover the value. All that's left to do is mourn, complain, and wonder "what if".
And my point was, that even considering this time of year, with such high volume, delays, lost packages, etc., the risk of what occurred was not one that could reasonably be foreseen or even contemplated.
Define "reasonably". LOL
I'm only half kidding. Some forumites are so paranoid about shipping disasters that they are surprised if the coin arrives intact.
2) It's 20/20 hindsight but I would not have arranged it to be shipped at the busiest time of year for the PO. A few years ago near the end of the year I wanted to get a truly one of a kind major error slabbed and I waited until January, and that was pre-Covid.
3) Are you 1000% sure it is bent? I would expect there to be some physical signs of the trauma, which I am not seeing on the obverse.
4) Although it is irreplaceable to you, it does have a value and hopefully was fully insured.
Regarding your 20/20 hindsight - seriously, how many times have you heard of an accident like this, where a very well packaged coin of that size has ended up getting bent? This outcome had an infinitesimal chance, compared to a package getting lost or delayed for an excessive amount of time.
Huh? My point was that I would not (and personally did not) ship an irreplaceable coin during the time of year when volumes and risk are highest. How the coin might get lost or damaged is irrelevant to the fact that the risk is higher this time of year, and even more so with Covid.
This particular incident is incredibly unusual, but I strongly suspect that seasonal and Covid factors contributed to it. In any case, had the "normal" seasonal risk been enough to delay the transaction for a month or so, I doubt we'd be having this discussion.
But it's all academic at this point. The coin was ruined and insurance will presumably cover the value. All that's left to do is mourn, complain, and wonder "what if".
And my point was, that even considering this time of year, with such high volume, delays, lost packages, etc., the risk of what occurred was not one that could reasonably be foreseen or even contemplated.
True. But if the normal risk had been enough to dissuade them from shipping, then when lightning struck there would have been nothing for it to hit. It was all serendipity in a bad way, but if it was avoided for any reason, then the bottom line is that it would have not happened.
So a guy goes to the beach for a swim only to find the beach closed due to dangerous riptides. He ignores the warning and goes swimming anyway, and a shark comes along and eats him. The riptides didn't get him but if he had heeded that warning then he would not have been there for the shark to attack him.
But, it's all pointless and of no consolation now...
@YQQ said:
To be blunt. it is a shame that such a thing does happen!
on the other side, what would you have to lose by taking the coin out of the remains of the holder, take a close up from every side you can, and show it to the members here.???
and, while you are at it taking pictures, please show us images of the parcel it came in and, importantly, the packaging and what service was paid to USPS to ship it?????
all this might have a different attitude towards the whole story.
Am NOT trying to imply anything here. Just trying to get more info about some missing details.
looking fwd to the images, sharp and detailed please.
What he’d leave to lose, is that since a claim will be filed, the less that’s done to the holder, coin and packaging, the better.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@YQQ said:
To be blunt. it is a shame that such a thing does happen!
on the other side, what would you have to lose by taking the coin out of the remains of the holder, take a close up from every side you can, and show it to the members here.???
and, while you are at it taking pictures, please show us images of the parcel it came in and, importantly, the packaging and what service was paid to USPS to ship it?????
all this might have a different attitude towards the whole story.
Am NOT trying to imply anything here. Just trying to get more info about some missing details.
looking fwd to the images, sharp and detailed please.
What he’d leave to lose, is that since a claim will be filed, the less that’s done to the holder, coin and packaging, the better.
Yes, this.
I'm also not sure what we expect to learn from such an outlier of an event. You can start shipping in steel crates, but the first time the steel crate gets crushed, then what do we do?
Oh man, how disappointing. I can't image your frustration. Finding the coin, working out the purchased price, talking to the dealer and other people, making a decision, pulling the trigger and then waiting for your beauty to arrive.... The chance of this happened is small but completely irrelevant..
I am sorry for your loss and hope another will come up someday and you get it...
2) It's 20/20 hindsight but I would not have arranged it to be shipped at the busiest time of year for the PO. A few years ago near the end of the year I wanted to get a truly one of a kind major error slabbed and I waited until January, and that was pre-Covid.
3) Are you 1000% sure it is bent? I would expect there to be some physical signs of the trauma, which I am not seeing on the obverse.
4) Although it is irreplaceable to you, it does have a value and hopefully was fully insured.
Regarding your 20/20 hindsight - seriously, how many times have you heard of an accident like this, where a very well packaged coin of that size has ended up getting bent? This outcome had an infinitesimal chance, compared to a package getting lost or delayed for an excessive amount of time.
Huh? My point was that I would not (and personally did not) ship an irreplaceable coin during the time of year when volumes and risk are highest. How the coin might get lost or damaged is irrelevant to the fact that the risk is higher this time of year, and even more so with Covid.
This particular incident is incredibly unusual, but I strongly suspect that seasonal and Covid factors contributed to it. In any case, had the "normal" seasonal risk been enough to delay the transaction for a month or so, I doubt we'd be having this discussion.
But it's all academic at this point. The coin was ruined and insurance will presumably cover the value. All that's left to do is mourn, complain, and wonder "what if".
And my point was, that even considering this time of year, with such high volume, delays, lost packages, etc., the risk of what occurred was not one that could reasonably be foreseen or even contemplated.
True. But if the normal risk had been enough to dissuade them from shipping, then when lightning struck there would have been nothing for it to hit. It was all serendipity in a bad way, but if it was avoided for any reason, then the bottom line is that it would have not happened.
So a guy goes to the beach for a swim only to find the beach closed due to dangerous riptides. He ignores the warning and goes swimming anyway, and a shark comes along and eats him. The riptides didn't get him but if he had heeded that warning then he would not have been there for the shark to attack him.
But, it's all pointless and of no consolation now...
So a guy goes to the beach, which is open. He goes swimming, since there is no warning sign about riptides or anything else. And a shark comes along and eats him. If he hadn’t gone swimming, he would not have been there for the shark to attack him.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
2) It's 20/20 hindsight but I would not have arranged it to be shipped at the busiest time of year for the PO. A few years ago near the end of the year I wanted to get a truly one of a kind major error slabbed and I waited until January, and that was pre-Covid.
3) Are you 1000% sure it is bent? I would expect there to be some physical signs of the trauma, which I am not seeing on the obverse.
4) Although it is irreplaceable to you, it does have a value and hopefully was fully insured.
Regarding your 20/20 hindsight - seriously, how many times have you heard of an accident like this, where a very well packaged coin of that size has ended up getting bent? This outcome had an infinitesimal chance, compared to a package getting lost or delayed for an excessive amount of time.
Huh? My point was that I would not (and personally did not) ship an irreplaceable coin during the time of year when volumes and risk are highest. How the coin might get lost or damaged is irrelevant to the fact that the risk is higher this time of year, and even more so with Covid.
This particular incident is incredibly unusual, but I strongly suspect that seasonal and Covid factors contributed to it. In any case, had the "normal" seasonal risk been enough to delay the transaction for a month or so, I doubt we'd be having this discussion.
But it's all academic at this point. The coin was ruined and insurance will presumably cover the value. All that's left to do is mourn, complain, and wonder "what if".
And my point was, that even considering this time of year, with such high volume, delays, lost packages, etc., the risk of what occurred was not one that could reasonably be foreseen or even contemplated.
True. But if the normal risk had been enough to dissuade them from shipping, then when lightning struck there would have been nothing for it to hit. It was all serendipity in a bad way, but if it was avoided for any reason, then the bottom line is that it would have not happened.
So a guy goes to the beach for a swim only to find the beach closed due to dangerous riptides. He ignores the warning and goes swimming anyway, and a shark comes along and eats him. The riptides didn't get him but if he had heeded that warning then he would not have been there for the shark to attack him.
But, it's all pointless and of no consolation now...
So a guy goes to the beach, which is open. He goes swimming, since there is no warning sign about riptides or anything else. And a shark comes along and eats him. If he hadn’t gone swimming, he would not have been there for the shark to attack him.
You have entered the realm of endless speculation. Under your scenario, all he'd have to worry about is an incredibly unlikely threat. There would be no other reason for him to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I can see that this thread is getting hijacked. No one knew or expected that this damage would happen. Let's just mourn the loss and leave it at that.
2) It's 20/20 hindsight but I would not have arranged it to be shipped at the busiest time of year for the PO. A few years ago near the end of the year I wanted to get a truly one of a kind major error slabbed and I waited until January, and that was pre-Covid.
3) Are you 1000% sure it is bent? I would expect there to be some physical signs of the trauma, which I am not seeing on the obverse.
4) Although it is irreplaceable to you, it does have a value and hopefully was fully insured.
Regarding your 20/20 hindsight - seriously, how many times have you heard of an accident like this, where a very well packaged coin of that size has ended up getting bent? This outcome had an infinitesimal chance, compared to a package getting lost or delayed for an excessive amount of time.
Huh? My point was that I would not (and personally did not) ship an irreplaceable coin during the time of year when volumes and risk are highest. How the coin might get lost or damaged is irrelevant to the fact that the risk is higher this time of year, and even more so with Covid.
This particular incident is incredibly unusual, but I strongly suspect that seasonal and Covid factors contributed to it. In any case, had the "normal" seasonal risk been enough to delay the transaction for a month or so, I doubt we'd be having this discussion.
But it's all academic at this point. The coin was ruined and insurance will presumably cover the value. All that's left to do is mourn, complain, and wonder "what if".
And my point was, that even considering this time of year, with such high volume, delays, lost packages, etc., the risk of what occurred was not one that could reasonably be foreseen or even contemplated.
True. But if the normal risk had been enough to dissuade them from shipping, then when lightning struck there would have been nothing for it to hit. It was all serendipity in a bad way, but if it was avoided for any reason, then the bottom line is that it would have not happened.
So a guy goes to the beach for a swim only to find the beach closed due to dangerous riptides. He ignores the warning and goes swimming anyway, and a shark comes along and eats him. The riptides didn't get him but if he had heeded that warning then he would not have been there for the shark to attack him.
But, it's all pointless and of no consolation now...
So a guy goes to the beach, which is open. He goes swimming, since there is no warning sign about riptides or anything else. And a shark comes along and eats him. If he hadn’t gone swimming, he would not have been there for the shark to attack him.
You have entered the realm of endless speculation. Under your scenario, all he'd have to worry about is an incredibly unlikely threat. There would be no other reason for him to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I can see that this thread is getting hijacked. No one knew or expected that this damage would happen. Let's just mourn the loss and leave it at that.
@shorecoll said:
I would bet that they had the package sorter cranked to max speed and that is what happened. It may be a casualty of the time of year volume surge.
He said the package was Registered. Registered is not placed on a sorter. They are worked by hand.
@TomB said:
I realize you are frustrated and it is a darn shame about the coin, but the ending quote is waaaaaay over the top.
"I will forever despise them for this."
By far the most likely explanation is that an accident happened and there was nothing malicious. I think the employees are way too busy to be plotting slamming random packages with forklifts or something.
And I completely understand the fact the something essentially irreplaceable was lost, but folks here are just trying to cheer you up a bit. "My irreplaceable coin was run over by a train but insurance paid out" is much better than "My irreplaceable spouse was run over by a train".
I have to respectfully disagree w some of you. If one of my truly prized possessions was destroyed by negligence as is the case here I'd despise them forever to. I don't think the OP means he dispises any individual. He has a great and justified sense of loss that the insurance money won't replace. The utter negligence - esp w a registered package - is inexcusable.
I understand that some are trying to cheer him up. If it were my prized possession any lighthearted comments would most certainly not cheer me up.
Obviously its not in the same universe as if his family member were run over. He never said it was.
First, to my knowledge, ( former UPS employ person ) There are no fork lifts that are used in there process.
There are what are called tugs. Kinda looks like a cartoon locomotive, funny looking so to say.
Sometimes tractors are leased, yes real tractors. due to a surge in deliveries.
I thought the slabs are indestructible.
Like a Timex watch.
A lot of people hired during the holidays are temporary. Wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't intentional. Just seen on the news last nite a video of a UPS driver drop kicking a package to the front door of a house. Turned out to be a cell phone that is now busted.
@bronzemat said:
I spent a few grand on some ancients last night & kindly asked the dealer to please don't mail it till after new years despite the tracking notice already sent. I haven't bought coins in two months but these are too nice to pass up.
I have noncoin packages still not having arrived yet and it's been 2 weeks since their last scans.
I don't want my coins to go missing so I have no problems waiting.
.
I've discovered that if you initiate a "missing package" search and file an insurance claim, packages mysteriously show up in 1 to 3 days.
The Post Office knows exactly where each tracking number is, whether they show it or not on their website. They know down to the truck it's on.
Thank you for your replies. There are a few people asking for pictures of the packaging. Here are those photos. There are indentations in both the outer and inner boxes. As well as some punctures on the top.
@emeraldATV said:
First, to my knowledge, ( former UPS employ person ) There are no fork lifts that are used in there process.
There are what are called tugs. Kinda looks like a cartoon locomotive, funny looking so to say.
Sometimes tractors are leased, yes real tractors. due to a surge in deliveries.
I thought the slabs are indestructible.
Like a Timex watch.
Are you familiar with the registered mail process? It is my understanding that these items are locked up and signed off for upon moving from location to location. And my friend advised me that if there is any sign of damage at any time, they are to be flagged.
@YQQ said:
To be blunt. it is a shame that such a thing does happen!
on the other side, what would you have to lose by taking the coin out of the remains of the holder, take a close up from every side you can, and show it to the members here.???
and, while you are at it taking pictures, please show us images of the parcel it came in and, importantly, the packaging and what service was paid to USPS to ship it?????
all this might have a different attitude towards the whole story.
Am NOT trying to imply anything here. Just trying to get more info about some missing details.
looking fwd to the images, sharp and detailed please.
@DollarAfterDollar said:
I'm assuming you must surrender the coin to get paid on the insurance claim. If that's the case can you dissect the slab to see what the actual condition is? Knowing the post office they might pitch it without looking.
I looked at the coin from all angles while doing my best to keep the slab intact. It has a 10-15 degree bend. Whatever did this exerted hundreds of pounds of force. Maybe even more. I was hoping the slab was just cracked and the coin had a shot at reholder.
2) It's 20/20 hindsight but I would not have arranged it to be shipped at the busiest time of year for the PO. A few years ago near the end of the year I wanted to get a truly one of a kind major error slabbed and I waited until January, and that was pre-Covid.
3) Are you 1000% sure it is bent? I would expect there to be some physical signs of the trauma, which I am not seeing on the obverse.
4) Although it is irreplaceable to you, it does have a value and hopefully was fully insured.
Yes the coin has around a 10-15 degree bend. Looking at it in the holder, it does not appear that way. But I inspected it further and it does have damage.
@bronzemat said:
I spent a few grand on some ancients last night & kindly asked the dealer to please don't mail it till after new years despite the tracking notice already sent. I haven't bought coins in two months but these are too nice to pass up.
I have noncoin packages still not having arrived yet and it's been 2 weeks since their last scans.
I don't want my coins to go missing so I have no problems waiting.
.
I've discovered that if you initiate a "missing package" search and file an insurance claim, packages mysteriously show up in 1 to 3 days.
The Post Office knows exactly where each tracking number is, whether they show it or not on their website. They know down to the truck it's on.
Z
I have done that already as of 3 days ago and still nothing.
I had something happen similar shipped to a buyer years ago. Slab broken in half. Upon return - The coin was undamaged. Since then I put “fragile handle with care” stickers on both sides. Like you I was absolutely livid such a thing happened. It was a Franklin half PCGS. About a $100 MS65coin no top pop.
u were saying that there was a box inside the box?
the outer board is made of corrugated cardboard which is not a great protector and does spring back to its original position unless crushed. there seems to be some evidence of this. back to the inside box...... pictures and packing material please, If you still have it.?
Interesting thread. The initial posts are clear as to the coin was clearly bent, and the box does not show much damage.
I totally understand the frustration of the coin loss. I have poured over many slabed Franklins looking for my desired combination of: color, overall marks on the coin, marks along the bell lines, other bell line conditions, etc...
To find that one coin that "speaks" to you, then see it trashed, must definitely be frustrating.
The damage seems so pinpointed and forceful. I picture impact machinery used in machine shops. Seems that the package was somehow out of place somewhere and quickly sandwiched (pinched) against a fixed/stationary object. Someone mentioned a fork lift. That could make sense if the package was slammed into a wall while somehow hanging over a fork. On my ship, we had a package elevator. Sometimes something slid and was caught up between a set of arms and the walls.
@ChrisH821 said:
Must have been run over by a forklift or something. Maybe closed in a door accidentally, who knows.
Any other picture angles? How bad is the bend?
Thanks for your comment. I said bent in half when I should have said "bent down the middle". It is maybe a 10 to 15 degree bend. For a second I thought maybe the coin had a chance. Then upon further inspection I noticed it was bent. Must've been hundreds of pounds of force.
The holder is bent, the coin doesn't look like it in the photos.
Step 1: File insurance claim and collect.
Step 2: Send as is to PCGS as a regrade.
@ChrisH821 said:
Must have been run over by a forklift or something. Maybe closed in a door accidentally, who knows.
Any other picture angles? How bad is the bend?
Thanks for your comment. I said bent in half when I should have said "bent down the middle". It is maybe a 10 to 15 degree bend. For a second I thought maybe the coin had a chance. Then upon further inspection I noticed it was bent. Must've been hundreds of pounds of force.
The holder is bent, the coin doesn't look like it in the photos.
Step 1: File insurance claim and collect.
Step 2: Send as is to PCGS as a regrade.
The coin is bent 10-15 degrees. I have said that multiple times. Regrade would receive “damage” details.
@ChrisH821 said:
Must have been run over by a forklift or something. Maybe closed in a door accidentally, who knows.
Any other picture angles? How bad is the bend?
Thanks for your comment. I said bent in half when I should have said "bent down the middle". It is maybe a 10 to 15 degree bend. For a second I thought maybe the coin had a chance. Then upon further inspection I noticed it was bent. Must've been hundreds of pounds of force.
The holder is bent, the coin doesn't look like it in the photos.
Step 1: File insurance claim and collect.
Step 2: Send as is to PCGS as a regrade.
I am pretty certain you have to surrender the item when the claim is filed/paid.
I would suggest that he could try to buy it back when the PO auctions off the damaged goods it has paid on, but I doubt it would be possible to track it through to that point.
@emeraldATV said:
First, to my knowledge, ( former UPS employ person ) There are no fork lifts that are used in there process.
There are what are called tugs. Kinda looks like a cartoon locomotive, funny looking so to say.
Sometimes tractors are leased, yes real tractors. due to a surge in deliveries.
I thought the slabs are indestructible.
Like a Timex watch.
Are you familiar with the registered mail process? It is my understanding that these items are locked up and signed off for upon moving from location to location. And my friend advised me that if there is any sign of damage at any time, they are to be flagged.
I think your understanding is correct.
I can think of very few if any scenarios where that damage was "legitimate" (accidental) within the Registered Mail process.
The box was speared with something, and I now suspect that it might have been intentional by someone looking for something to steal. If that is the case they did not see what they were looking for.
And the PO should absolutely have flagged that damage before it ever got to you. When you mail a RM package that sort of breach would not be allowed.
If you wanted to you could alert the postal inspectors in case they found other similar irregularities ar a particular facility, but they probably have their hands full. Still, the whole thing stinks to high Heaven.
@emeraldATV said:
First, to my knowledge, ( former UPS employ person ) There are no fork lifts that are used in there process.
There are what are called tugs. Kinda looks like a cartoon locomotive, funny looking so to say.
Sometimes tractors are leased, yes real tractors. due to a surge in deliveries.
I thought the slabs are indestructible.
Like a Timex watch.
Are you familiar with the registered mail process? It is my understanding that these items are locked up and signed off for upon moving from location to location. And my friend advised me that if there is any sign of damage at any time, they are to be flagged.
I think your understanding is correct.
I can think of very few if any scenarios where that damage was "legitimate" (accidental) within the Registered Mail process.
The box was speared with something, and I now suspect that it might have been intentional by someone looking for something to steal. If that is the case they did not see what they were looking for.
And the PO should absolutely have flagged that damage before it ever got to you. When you mail a RM package that sort of breach would not be allowed.
If you wanted to you could alert the postal inspectors in case they found other similar irregularities ar a particular facility, but they probably have their hands full. Still, the whole thing stinks to high Heaven.
Talk about speculation! There are far easier and faster ways to look for something to steal and then do so.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
That is sure a shame, sorry to see it happen.
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1) I feel for your loss.
2) It's 20/20 hindsight but I would not have arranged it to be shipped at the busiest time of year for the PO. A few years ago near the end of the year I wanted to get a truly one of a kind major error slabbed and I waited until January, and that was pre-Covid.
3) Are you 1000% sure it is bent? I would expect there to be some physical signs of the trauma, which I am not seeing on the obverse.
4) Although it is irreplaceable to you, it does have a value and hopefully was fully insured.
I wish we could have seen the box. Can’t imagine how that happened without the box being destroyed.
You just allowed me to come up with a theory of how that could happen to the coin. The forklift driver missed his mark and rammed his forks through the container(instead of under) with the coin being at the stopping point once complete compression had been reached. That's the only way I could see that coin being bent....unless they can really crank up the pressure on their sort machines so they force the non compliable thicker packages through. That is one of my gripes with the USPS...ya have to pay extra if a package is too thick(non-machinable) but they still run it through anyway.
Regarding your 20/20 hindsight - seriously, how many times have you heard of an accident like this, where a very well packaged coin of that size has ended up getting bent? This outcome had an infinitesimal chance, compared to a package getting lost or delayed for an excessive amount of time.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm assuming you must surrender the coin to get paid on the insurance claim. If that's the case can you dissect the slab to see what the actual condition is? Knowing the post office they might pitch it without looking.
Huh? My point was that I would not (and personally did not) ship an irreplaceable coin during the time of year when volumes and risk are highest. How the coin might get lost or damaged is irrelevant to the fact that the risk is higher this time of year, and even more so with Covid.
This particular incident is incredibly unusual, but I strongly suspect that seasonal and Covid factors contributed to it. In any case, had the "normal" seasonal risk been enough to delay the transaction for a month or so, I doubt we'd be having this discussion.
But it's all academic at this point. The coin was ruined and insurance will presumably cover the value. All that's left to do is mourn, complain, and wonder "what if".
I was thinking along the lines of Mark Feld, this is practically a "black swan" event, something with a really, really small chance of occurring. I certainly understand the distress of the o.p.
I have received many,many coins delivered by the USPS and nothing has ever been lost or damaged. This is why we have insurance, to protect against rare, unforseen events.
I have 4 coins in the mail coming to me now, from 3 different locations. I am confident that they will arrive intact.
And my point was, that even considering this time of year, with such high volume, delays, lost packages, etc., the risk of what occurred was not one that could reasonably be foreseen or even contemplated.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To be blunt. it is a shame that such a thing does happen!
on the other side, what would you have to lose by taking the coin out of the remains of the holder, take a close up from every side you can, and show it to the members here.???
and, while you are at it taking pictures, please show us images of the parcel it came in and, importantly, the packaging and what service was paid to USPS to ship it?????
all this might have a different attitude towards the whole story.
Am NOT trying to imply anything here. Just trying to get more info about some missing details.
looking fwd to the images, sharp and detailed please.
Define "reasonably". LOL
I'm only half kidding. Some forumites are so paranoid about shipping disasters that they are surprised if the coin arrives intact.
True. But if the normal risk had been enough to dissuade them from shipping, then when lightning struck there would have been nothing for it to hit. It was all serendipity in a bad way, but if it was avoided for any reason, then the bottom line is that it would have not happened.
So a guy goes to the beach for a swim only to find the beach closed due to dangerous riptides. He ignores the warning and goes swimming anyway, and a shark comes along and eats him. The riptides didn't get him but if he had heeded that warning then he would not have been there for the shark to attack him.
But, it's all pointless and of no consolation now...
What he’d leave to lose, is that since a claim will be filed, the less that’s done to the holder, coin and packaging, the better.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I would bet that they had the package sorter cranked to max speed and that is what happened. It may be a casualty of the time of year volume surge.
true
Yes, this.
I'm also not sure what we expect to learn from such an outlier of an event. You can start shipping in steel crates, but the first time the steel crate gets crushed, then what do we do?
Oh man, how disappointing. I can't image your frustration. Finding the coin, working out the purchased price, talking to the dealer and other people, making a decision, pulling the trigger and then waiting for your beauty to arrive.... The chance of this happened is small but completely irrelevant..
I am sorry for your loss and hope another will come up someday and you get it...
So a guy goes to the beach, which is open. He goes swimming, since there is no warning sign about riptides or anything else. And a shark comes along and eats him. If he hadn’t gone swimming, he would not have been there for the shark to attack him.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You have entered the realm of endless speculation. Under your scenario, all he'd have to worry about is an incredibly unlikely threat. There would be no other reason for him to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I can see that this thread is getting hijacked. No one knew or expected that this damage would happen. Let's just mourn the loss and leave it at that.
Isn't that the point Mark was trying to make?
Send it in for a reholder and ask for "conservation".
Seriously, sorry for your loss. It's like a death.
Seriously, I don't think so.
He said the package was Registered. Registered is not placed on a sorter. They are worked by hand.
So sorry to hear this. Stunned to know this happened to registered mail.
USPS raises fees yet deteriorates in service seemingly by the day.
Really sad. Just horrible.
I have to respectfully disagree w some of you. If one of my truly prized possessions was destroyed by negligence as is the case here I'd despise them forever to. I don't think the OP means he dispises any individual. He has a great and justified sense of loss that the insurance money won't replace. The utter negligence - esp w a registered package - is inexcusable.
I understand that some are trying to cheer him up. If it were my prized possession any lighthearted comments would most certainly not cheer me up.
Obviously its not in the same universe as if his family member were run over. He never said it was.
First, to my knowledge, ( former UPS employ person ) There are no fork lifts that are used in there process.
There are what are called tugs. Kinda looks like a cartoon locomotive, funny looking so to say.
Sometimes tractors are leased, yes real tractors. due to a surge in deliveries.
I thought the slabs are indestructible.
Like a Timex watch.
A lot of people hired during the holidays are temporary. Wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't intentional. Just seen on the news last nite a video of a UPS driver drop kicking a package to the front door of a house. Turned out to be a cell phone that is now busted.
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What a terrible accident... and especially for Registered Mail.... Indeed, a painful loss. Cheers, RickO
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I've discovered that if you initiate a "missing package" search and file an insurance claim, packages mysteriously show up in 1 to 3 days.
The Post Office knows exactly where each tracking number is, whether they show it or not on their website. They know down to the truck it's on.
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I can completely relate to your use of the verb "despise".
To feel contempt or deep repugnance for.
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Hello everyone,
Thank you for your replies. There are a few people asking for pictures of the packaging. Here are those photos. There are indentations in both the outer and inner boxes. As well as some punctures on the top.
Are you familiar with the registered mail process? It is my understanding that these items are locked up and signed off for upon moving from location to location. And my friend advised me that if there is any sign of damage at any time, they are to be flagged.
I have posted some more photos for you
posted some more photos
I looked at the coin from all angles while doing my best to keep the slab intact. It has a 10-15 degree bend. Whatever did this exerted hundreds of pounds of force. Maybe even more. I was hoping the slab was just cracked and the coin had a shot at reholder.
Yes the coin has around a 10-15 degree bend. Looking at it in the holder, it does not appear that way. But I inspected it further and it does have damage.
I have done that already as of 3 days ago and still nothing.
I had something happen similar shipped to a buyer years ago. Slab broken in half. Upon return - The coin was undamaged. Since then I put “fragile handle with care” stickers on both sides. Like you I was absolutely livid such a thing happened. It was a Franklin half PCGS. About a $100 MS65coin no top pop.
u were saying that there was a box inside the box?
the outer board is made of corrugated cardboard which is not a great protector and does spring back to its original position unless crushed. there seems to be some evidence of this. back to the inside box...... pictures and packing material please, If you still have it.?
Closed it in your safe door? lol j/king GL
Interesting thread. The initial posts are clear as to the coin was clearly bent, and the box does not show much damage.
I totally understand the frustration of the coin loss. I have poured over many slabed Franklins looking for my desired combination of: color, overall marks on the coin, marks along the bell lines, other bell line conditions, etc...
To find that one coin that "speaks" to you, then see it trashed, must definitely be frustrating.
The damage seems so pinpointed and forceful. I picture impact machinery used in machine shops. Seems that the package was somehow out of place somewhere and quickly sandwiched (pinched) against a fixed/stationary object. Someone mentioned a fork lift. That could make sense if the package was slammed into a wall while somehow hanging over a fork. On my ship, we had a package elevator. Sometimes something slid and was caught up between a set of arms and the walls.
The holder is bent, the coin doesn't look like it in the photos.
Step 1: File insurance claim and collect.
Step 2: Send as is to PCGS as a regrade.
Oh, I think the fork lift theory posited earlier in this thread just became more likely.
The coin is bent 10-15 degrees. I have said that multiple times. Regrade would receive “damage” details.
I am pretty certain you have to surrender the item when the claim is filed/paid.
I would suggest that he could try to buy it back when the PO auctions off the damaged goods it has paid on, but I doubt it would be possible to track it through to that point.
I think your understanding is correct.
I can think of very few if any scenarios where that damage was "legitimate" (accidental) within the Registered Mail process.
The box was speared with something, and I now suspect that it might have been intentional by someone looking for something to steal. If that is the case they did not see what they were looking for.
And the PO should absolutely have flagged that damage before it ever got to you. When you mail a RM package that sort of breach would not be allowed.
If you wanted to you could alert the postal inspectors in case they found other similar irregularities ar a particular facility, but they probably have their hands full. Still, the whole thing stinks to high Heaven.
When the package was delivered to you, did the carrier acknowledge that the box was damaged? Did you open this in the presence of a USPS employee?
If not, I'm curious if you're concerned that the USPS might say the damage happened after it was delivered to you.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Talk about speculation! There are far easier and faster ways to look for something to steal and then do so.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.