Should coins with too many chops be discounted?
goldrealmoney79
Posts: 417 ✭✭✭
I know trade dollars have chop marks, and that there is crowd that collects them and I understand the appeal. I myself like a coin with thoughtfully placed chop. However the problem I have is there are some coins with so many chops that details of the coin are obscured severely. If you get too many on one side then the other side gets damaged from all metal movement as well. These coins with too many chops have so many details and beauty lost that they should be sold at a severe discount. Am i wrong to think so? Do you think there should be a premium for too many chops?
For example this one below is being marketed as monster chop marks, but I dont see the appeal to all the damage.
0
Comments
Should? Who do you imagine would enforce this?
I think it was discounted, but more likely for surface conditions than too many chops.
Yes, they should definitely be discounted. And also, those offering said discounts should please take my want list.
Years ago, yes. Today? I think the more the merrier is generally the rule.
Love your avatar! At first I thought it might be chop marked!
I made those for a trip to Hawaii a couple years ago (hence the palm tree). I kept a couple and several were left behind in the sand on various beaches.
No different than whether a ugly toned coin should be discounted. Some like it some don't.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Awesome!
And wait! I see a Palm Tree chop mark in it!
Fun idea with coins!
Should coins with too many chops be discounted?
Coins with any post-mint damage should be discounted.
Chopmarks are damage which occurred after the coin left the mint.
Therefore, coins with any chops should be discounted.
To me, chopmarks are just like wear, they are normal effects of a coin being used for its intended purpose, for commerce.
Trade Dollars were intended to be used in the Asia and chopmarks were standard practice there,
Scratches are normal wear due to circulation; Should this coin be discounted?
And yet I’d pay MORE for certain dates. Go figure
Is it market acceptable?
And scratches depends on the coin.
Since the objective is to maximize seller profits (in net present value),
then the answer depends on the demand for coins with "too many" chops.
If such a coin is priced too high, it will sit in inventory for a long time, and money is lost based on the interest rate.
If it is discounted too much, it may sell quickly, but it could have sold for more, also quickly.
You could research this by looking at how long such coins sit in inventory.
It's not an easy thing to research, because you have to look over time.
Many coins sit on ebay for months and years, though.
People often pay more for certain ocean damaged coins because of the sunken ship they were on, too. The coins are still damaged, though.
At some point, It comes down to market acceptability. Some people pay more for environmentally damaged toned coins too.
In order for a sale to occur, the buyer and seller will agree on a price.
If one is not one of those two, I'm curious why one would think one's opinion matters.
Well, since I own it, it was obviously acceptable to me--but at a discounted price to what an unscratched one would have cost me.
As for the 17/4, yes, it is damaged. No, I do not think it belongs in a straight graded holder. Would I buy it if I had the money?
In a heartbeat. I would still, however, offer less than I would have without the damage.
no one is going to twist your arm
I captured this image from another forum;
...did not catch the rev though.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Is that a coin with chopmarks, or chopmarks with a coin underneath?
I think the difference lies in the meaning of the damage. A chop means the coin was successfully used for its purpose. A coin from a wreck has a tie to a historical event and unlike many coins, can be directly placed to something beyond when it was minted. A scratch can just happen. But if you could find out that George Washington scratched a specific coin, it would be worth a fortune.
Buy what you like.
I think it's a moot point because odds are that most collectors would not be buying a chopmarked coin for an otherwise unchopped Trade Dollar set, they operate as essentially two different issues. A chopmarked 1875-P, for instance, is of greater value to a chopmark collector than a T$ collector looking for a general representative of the date. Furthermore, the appeal of a chopmarked coin in general is much more subjective than an unmarked coin; surfaces and detail matter as they do in conventional numismatics, but so do general appearance, chop placement, whether the individual chops are interesting or significant, etc. In the case of something like common chopmarked Portrait 8 Reales, extremely heavily chopmarked examples actually bring a substantial premium over moderately chopped hosts, for the novelty/historical value.
They are not interchangeable but collectors to pursue both.
As mentioned by @tradedollarnut, sometimes the chopmarked coin is worth more!
In general, a common coin that is frequently chop marked sells at a discount with chops. If it is heavily chop marked the discount is larger.
However as TDN and ChopmarkedTrades state, there are some coins that actually increase in value with chop marks.
I, for one, will pay through the nose for a 75-P or 78-CC chop marked Trade dollar. And probably for certain Liberty Seated Dollars.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
History when interesting adds value to artifacts
Also are we talking just punch chops, ink chops count? Wash them
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
@JBK... Now that is a coin I would like to have in my collection - I am a fan of Churchill and have another one stamped by a forum member. I guess I will have to go to Hawaii and do some beach detecting. Cheers, RickO
Oh yeah... as far as chopmarked coins go.... How often have we heard collectors say "If only this coin could talk." Well, in a manner of speaking, the chopmarked coins ARE talking...telling of their history in a distant land and commerce. They add character. Cheers,RickO
If chop-marked coins could talk there were would probably be some choice four-lettered words, you know, like "ouch" used.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
No... collectors will pay/bid what it is worth to them. And in part that valuation may be attributable to the identity and combination of chop marks
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I consider chopped coins to be damaged and do not buy them.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Chopped marked coins - my offer / bid discounted and the more chops lower the offer if any.
Sounds like you’re really into chopmarks and buy a lot of chopped coins.
How many are too many?
Some of this discussion reminds me of one of the most prolific writers on and collectors of love tokens from back in the '80s and '90s. He waxed poetically on the subject and the beauty of the pieces in his collection but was adamant when buying that he was purchasing damaged coins and they should be priced as such. He even published buying tables of coin types & grades & what % of bid he would pay in grade (usually 10%-15%).
Many merchant counterstamps increase the value of the host coin -- if you are strictly buying coins you call a c/s damage and think it is worth less but if you have a broader view of numismatics you view a c/s as what it is and not what it used to be.
I think it's essentially a supply demand thing. the reason common dates with chops discount the value is because they satisfy the demand of the collector base.
Other varieties simply dont, and so it becomes much harder to acquire those special coins, either a rare variety, or unusual condition.
personally, I love chopped trade dollars. And, Im not even going to get into the hypocrisy of what is natural/unnatural "damage" - other than noting it exists.
Unless your coin is straight from the mint, it has damage. The ONLY question that matters is market acceptability and how it affects supply versus demand.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
@DDR @tradedollarnut @ChopmarkedTrades
Thanks for the very informative breakdown and furthering my understanding of the market.
Some people like them and find them historically significant. I consider it PMD and wouldn't buy one.
I like chops, but prefer to be able to see host coin as well