Is this a US Mint waffled coin or PMD?

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Zoins
Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

This is a waffled coin, but was it waffled by the Mint or afterwards?

This is dated 1996 which is before the time the Mint started waffling coins in 2002. It also has a different waffle pattern than other US coins.

Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
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  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Isn't waffling a form of PMD?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Zoins
    Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2020 6:50AM
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    @PerryHall said:
    Isn't waffling a form of PMD?

    Is US Mint waffling done by US Mint staff in US Mint facilities? If so, I wouldn't consider that "post-Mint", which to me means after the piece is in possession of another party.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • TurtleCat
    TurtleCat Posts: 4,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It doesn’t look like any waffle ones I’ve seen, though I haven’t seen many. I’ll err on the side of done outside the mint.

  • Unknown
    Unknown
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  • bearcave
    bearcave Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @silverpop said:
    outside the mint PMD

    This

    Ken
  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    If I were betting... and there was some way to establish fact - I would wager on PMD.... done by someone long after the mint. Does not look like any mint waffled coins I have seen. Cheers, RickO

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2020 7:54AM
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    @Zoins said:

    @PerryHall said:
    Isn't waffling a form of PMD?

    Is US Mint waffling done by US Mint staff in US Mint facilities? If so, I wouldn't consider that "post-Mint", which to me means after the piece is in possession of another party.

    PMD means Post Mintage Damage. The waffling happened AFTER the coin was minted. If a mint employee took a freshly minted coin and beat it with a sledge hammer before it left the mint, it would be PMD. A lot of it comes down to intent. Waffling was intended to destroy the coin and render it into scrap metal.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • MWallace
    MWallace Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Could've been waffled at a foreign mint. They use a different waffling pattern.

  • Jimnight
    Jimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Doesn't look like waffling to me ... it looks like PMD.

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Jimnight said:
    Doesn't look like waffling to me ... it looks like PMD.

    It looks like both to me.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Jimnight
    Jimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @PerryHall said:

    @Jimnight said:
    Doesn't look like waffling to me ... it looks like PMD.

    It looks like both to me.

    :D Your right!

  • FredWeinberg
    FredWeinberg Posts: 6,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Not done by the US Mint's Waffle machine, imo

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • Zoins
    Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2020 8:41AM
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    @PerryHall said:

    @Zoins said:

    @PerryHall said:
    Isn't waffling a form of PMD?

    Is US Mint waffling done by US Mint staff in US Mint facilities? If so, I wouldn't consider that "post-Mint", which to me means after the piece is in possession of another party.

    PMD means Post Mintage Damage. The waffling happened AFTER the coin was minted. If a mint employee took a freshly minted coin and beat it with a sledge hammer before it left the mint, it would be PMD. A lot of it comes down to intent. Waffling was intended to destroy the coin and render it into scrap metal.

    That's not the definition I'm familiar with.

    There are generally two terms used "Post-Mint Damage (PMD)" and "Post-Strike Damage (PSD)".

    It seems you're using the definition for Post-Strike Damage.

    See this:

    https://varietyerrors.com/coins/post-mint-damage-post-strike-damage-what-you-need-to-know-about-pmd-psd-vs-error-coins-damaged-coins-value/

    Post Mint Damage & Post Strike Damage: What You Need To Know About PMD & PSD vs. Error Coins + Damaged Coins Value

    It stands for Post Mint Damage, and refers to any damage a coin has suffered after leaving the mint.
    [...]
    Post Mint Damage (PMD) and Post Strike Damage (PSD) are often mistaken for errors on U.S. coins

    And this:

    http://www.coinzip.com/articlesPage1.php?i=174

    PMD (Post Mint Damage
    [...]
    PMD stands for Post Mint Damage, and refers to any damage a coin has suffered after leaving the mint.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ctf_error_coins
    ctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2020 8:50AM
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    The US mint did not waffle that coin, wrong pattern.

  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Agree on the PMD vs PSD distinction. Plenty of PSD has come out of the mint over the years.

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