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////// Should The Mint Try A Lottery For Low Mintage, High Demand Coins ? \\\\\\
Kudbegud
Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
The Mint really made a mess of the AGE & ASE opening day. The worst experience for a mint offering EVER ! The caveat is that the lottery must be run outside the Mint and it's distribution contractor or any other Mint associated entity. Vote, anonymously, and comment please.
////// Should The Mint Try A Lottery For Low Mintage, High Demand Coins ? \\\\\\
This is a private poll: no-one will see what you voted for.
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The Mint's website is woefully inadequate for a low mintage, high demand offering.
But it has always been inadequate, and the Mint doesn't seem to want to fix it.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
I think people would be upset either way. If the Mint did a lottery there would still be just as many people who didn’t get one and those people would be angry, thinking if there had just been a free for all they would’ve gotten one.
The Mint just needs to fix it’s website.
It's so ass-backwards, they hold these low mintage, high demand offerings before they have a website with the ability to handle the peak volume, and no user-friendly messages, either.
It could not be run by the Mint or any associated entity. "It's Rigged" would be the response. It would have to be run by a trusted outside firm. Like the one who runs the Oscars.
This is only a test to see how it worked and help making a decision if it could become a permeant fixture. Not even for every limited coin or medal.
A lottery will not solve the perceived problem. The big boys will still have their network lined up, with multiple accounts and entries, and the little guy will be greatly outnumbered; the bigger ones with network and resources will still score the majority. At least with the current system, you are in the snake pit with everyone else, so you at least have a brief chance that your electrons will edge out one of the big boys.
It's technically a lottery already.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I guess one big difference a lottery would make.... is that a person would not have to sit at the computer for 1 1/2 hrs trying to squeeze in an order.... with a lottery you would be able to make your entry (entries) and then not worry about it. If you win, you win. If you lose, you lose. So I can see both advantages and disadvantages.
I am NOT an IT person. I do not, therefore, know how much 'work' would be involved with "trying" a "lottery". Notwithstanding, I like the idea in theory.
In my mind, a "lottery" would:
~ eliminate the need for a website "fix". (Again, I am not an IT person. So, I do not know which option would be 'easier/cheaper'. That said, the Mint does not seem 'willing/able' to "fix" their website to accommodate these high-demand releases.)
~ make the process more "fair" by providing the same P(success) to all entrants. This is the case as 'bots', and other IT-related advantages would be neutralized.
~ still keep the releases vulnerable to flippers and their minions. For example, 'PFS Buyer Club'. These groups could still inundate the "lottery" with entries.
The 2009 UHR is how a program should be run. Anyone who wants one can get one provided they order by a specified date. There should be NO MORE low mintage limit offerings unless Congress authorizes a mintage limit like it does on commemorative coins. The US Mint should also stick to the KISS principle when it comes to its products, it's already losing money on numismatic operations.
The low mintage items.... keep a good deal of publicity and draws a lot of customers to the US Mint. Look how long the gold and silver WW2 75th anniversary Eagles were discussed and anticipated by everyone....
they should mint to demand on every issue.
if they insist on doing this "stuff" I'd take a lottery.
but they really should mint to demand.
The Mint should NOT be intentionally offering low mintage, high demand offerings... this does NOT benefit the Mint in any way. This only benefits those who are lucky to get the coins and those dealers of such coins who later flip them.
The Mint played these games in the 1930s making low mintage commemoratives that benefited dealers/promoters of the coins... and Congress investigated and the practice was halted for decades... Congress should be looking into why the Mint is offering these artificially low mintage modern rarities and who is really benefiting. Will that happen though... nope.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Congress today would probably tell them to do more of it....
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
anyway
I got the fax number to complain to the mint director. letters can be written to the mint director.
what will happen? All these people complaining... what will they do besides? nothing.
Poll: I have a mint complaint
Answer 1: I'll do nothing :======================================================: 100%
They will probably say they need to lower the mintages and that will make less people tru...
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
The thing is, they'd be disappointed they didn't win a drawing rather than raging about spending an hour on a website that's throttling your access to clicking on boats only to say "oops, something went wrong." If they simply "fixed their website" to handle a zillion customers at once, people would be upset about being at a disadvantage because they're slow typists or had someone microwave their lunch and knock out their WiFi. Let people get a single lottery entry using a verifiable credit card and mailing address for the weeks leading up to the release, then give the lucky winners a few days to confirm their order or pass.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
No. And frankly I think they should mint to demand. Open up orders for a week or month or year. Let as many people who want them, buy them. Then close the mintage. However many are minted are minted. Let the people who actually want them choose their future rarity.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
You're complaining about the wrong people. The mint doesn't decide how many coins to make. Congress passes the law and the mint carries out their instructions.
Well for me this was the last one in the series unless they crap one out Before they change the design. I will pick another series to collect maybe V proofs. I have all of the ASE’s and I am done with romper room mint antics
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I love the chaos, the highs and lows, the wins and losses, the war against the bots, the drama, the ability to flip. There are really no rules as the process changes each time. It’s part of the game and I hope it never changes.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
So, it sounds like you enjoy the current process.
Just curious - were you able to secure a coin?
Trying to think what this has to do with numismatics, actually.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Yes a silver. Had gold in bag but impossible to check out.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Well, much of collecting is about the quest...
In today’s world, with the internet, much of the quest is gone. With Google and a credit card, and a thought out plan, you can build a decent collection in a short time.
At least the US mint is keeping it interesting.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
A quest is one thing. A contentious online free-for-all is basically the 1983 Cabbage Patch Kids riots redux.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Truly the question could be: what does much of what comes out of the US Mint today have to do with numismatics? While some see value in the modern issues, I will flip this and put the proceeds into something else.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
I like the current system. It’s more fun this way.
If the lottery system was implemented the there is a chance for even more people to enter lowering you chances even more. There’s not guarantee either way.
Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
true. those that stuff the box will still have a better shot that the rest.
the certain people to be hurt by a lottery would be the bot programmers.
Instead of a Punch and Judy show, it would be much easier to get a computer with enough bandwidth to handle their customers. But I suppose that makes too much sense for a federal agency.
I'm not going to waste my day clicking refresh in the hopes of picking up something to flip but if I can go to a webpage and sign up for a chance to win, I'm in.
So- yes, it's possible a lottery would lower your chances.
I have a feeling this will make CoinWorld,
I missed out, and surprisingly I'm not upset...
I planned to do the un-thinkable, (for me at least) flip it...
That is not what I do, Karma?
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
How about a system where the mint takes as many orders as it wants for one day only? This way you have 24 hours to order, but its limited to how many are ordered in that time period?
Can someone point to evidence of the use of “bots” for this offering? It has been posted about over and over many time today, but where is this info coming from?
Bots are used so widely online by people trying to buy up limited quantity items to flip for a profit that the onus should be on the person claiming bots are not being used to back it up.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
they have done similar in the past where the time was 1 month i think
Generally, the person making the claim has the obligation to provide proof to back it up. It's not the responsibility of those skeptical of the claim to disprove it. Ignoring that for the moment, what would you accept as proof of bots not being used?
What about if individual accounts that had a multi month purchase history got right of first refusal. That would lower the one jump chump quota
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
why am I being sucked into this talk?
no one will complain to the mint. even if a lottery is agreed upon, no one will actually complain to the mint.
The best solution is a properly structured sealed bid auction.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Don’t ask me. I think the mint should stick to creating instruments of commerce for the people of this great nation. Limited-issue items, by definition, serve the interests of only a few. Government shouldn’t be in that business.
How about somewhat of a reward system for the people that have supported some of the mint coins in the past, True customers that like to collect rather than flip. Perhaps you have to have bought 15 coins in the past from the mint or have bought something each year for the past five years. That or a lottery would have saved 2 hours out of my day without raising my blood pressure.
will the lottery site crash when you go to register? lol
my luck, it will
Kennedys are my quest...
As long as the government insists on minting fewer coins than are demanded, there will be potential buyers who are disappointed. There is no system that will change this, all you can do is rearrange the deck chairs such that your chances improve.
disagree.
lodging lots of complaints (takes 10 minutes) with the mint director will get voices heard and perhaps get things changed.
or
people can complain here for hours on end and have 0.00 chance of anything happening.
You misunderstood my post. Make any changes you can think of and there will be people unhappy because they didn't get a coin. The only thing you can change is who the unhappy people are.
the unhappy numbers can be significantly reduced via mint to demand.
If it were mint to demand then there’s not point in fighting over getting the coin. That’s the fun part of this.
Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Well, sure. But that's not the situation I was commenting on:
"As long as the government insists on minting fewer coins than are demanded..."
If the mint strikes enough to meet demand, by definition there will be no buyers disappointed because they couldn't get one.
The website crashing is absolutely the best thing that could've happened. It makes it unreliable and part of the victory if you end up getting through.
Also, I have family members that are hearing the words "Usmint.gov" for the first time in their entire life. Why?? Because they have a chance at buying a coin for $3,000 and selling it for $6,000. THAT CREATES EXCITEMENT! That creates a challenge or a game. If everything worked perfectly no one would be talking about the darn thing... This is, of course, all just my opinion. But I believe it to be true.
We’ve talked lottery for years. Mint decides stupid ideas. Australia uses a lottery. I got one of their low mintage Kangaroo coins maybe 7/8 years ago.