It does make you wonder what tactics the ultra rich do to avoid taxes on their expensive purchases. I mean if someone is buying a $50 million Monet artwork, surely they don’t want to pay $10 million in taxes.
Maybe my coin collection should be a 403(b). After all, it doesn’t see any real profit...
Funny how numismatic investments are taxable but investments in stocks are not........ Some of us buy and hold coins as an investment, not as an expensive trinket.
@bsshog40 said:
I do agree that unless the seller hasn't bought a coin in a long time, he should have known that sales tax was going to be added.
Not at all. Consider what we have learned. California charges sales tax for most items sold on eBay. California doesn't charge sales tax on coins over $1500 (all at once). Buyer agreed to pay $1499 + (we can assume) at least $1 shipping. Buyer thinks he paid enough on coins that he exceeded the sales tax limit. California would have only charged sales tax on shipping if the coin had been $1 more. If it had been, say, $1510 with free shipping, there would have been the same price net to seller, but no tax due to buyer. It's understandable if the buyer was used to spending just over $1500 on coins with no tax implications, I can understand why he got upset.
Then none of this nonsense would have ever happened.
Stop blaming the buyer for not following through with a sale when the seller did not explain the all-in price.
As far as I am concerned, a seller (of anything - a car, a house, etc). has the full and sole obligation to explain the total cost of purchase, including taxes, title, license, transfer fees, registration fees, etc., to a buyer, in order for a sale to be executed.
If I offer to buy a house from you for $100,000 as my all-in offer, and tell you that all taxes and closing costs are your burden to bear out of that $100,000; if you come to me and say there is a $10,000 sales tax and $2500 closing/title fee that you didn't tell me about, then I would walk from the sale since you did not disclose that to me before initiating an agreement.
Sellers cannot demand additional taxes or fees they did not make completely clear were required to be paid by the Buyer prior to agreeing to sell an item to them. That is modifying a contract after it is signed, which is a form of fraud.
@RedstoneCoins - I understand your point but this would entail the seller knowing the tax regulations of all 50 states and the location of buyer before the completion of the transaction. The seller does not demand nor receive the tax resvenue. Ebay is collecting the taxes as required by law and distributing it to the state of residence of the buyer.
I just completed an auction to an out of state buyer on ebay. I had no idea who was going to win the auction and what state they resided in so it would be impossible to price the item based on information I couldn't possibly know.
@pointfivezero said:
The seller does not demand nor receive the tax resvenue. Ebay is collecting the taxes as required by law and distributing it to the state of residence of the buyer.
eBay should not allow a person to click "Buy It Now" without showing the buyer the total all-in price that it will cost them to acquire the item, prior to committing to buy it.
This is the fundamental problem. eBay doesn't do that.
The seller should state in unequivocal terms that sales tax may be applied to the sale, depending on the state.
Frankly, eBay needs to handle this better.
But ultimately, it is always the responsibility of the seller to disclose all fees and costs involved in acquiring the item. Even if that means providing the taxes for all 50 states in the description.
Just because the law is complex and onerous does not mean you do not have to follow it. You have to follow the law. Disclosure is a part of the law. If you don't disclose something to someone in order to elicit their bid in a sale, and the omitted information fundamentally alters the status of the item in question, or the cost to acquire it, that is a failure on your part, along with any venue (eBay, or anyone else who facilitated it) who would also be an accessory to it.
For example, if I listed an item for $50 and said shipping was free of charge. Then after the sale, I messaged you and said my estimated shipping costs were underestimated and I wanted to charge you an additional $40 to ship the item on top of the $50 you already paid for it, that would clearly be failure to perform on my end, as well as fraud.
This is why in every case where prosecutors have gone after sales tax avoidance/circumvention cases, the seller was always held liable, not the individual buyers. Because the seller is ultimately responsible for tax collection and enforcement. eBay just politely tries to keep your business by making it easier on you by collecting on your behalf.
This will not stop until a uniform set of federal laws can clarify this issue. SCOTUS decision in the infamous "Wayfair" case that brought about unconstitutional interstate taxation of online sales is a disaster, and clear-cut example of legislating (more specifically, taxation) emanating from the judiciary, which is a power the Constitution reserves solely for the U.S. Congress.
@RedstoneCoins I agree with you, but I’m sure there’s an end user license agreement, or other T&Cs document that we don’t read, but click “accept” on that covers eBay puts the onus back on it’s users/customers.
As I’ve had to tell many a contractor in a past life: “failure to read and understand your contract doesn’t mean you’re not obligated to it.” I know I haven’t read all the legal jargon on the bay, and I’ll bet it’s covered pretty specifically. (But I still pretty much agree with you)
@RedstoneCoins - your shipping example is a horse of a different color. Revising a shipping fee is clearly a deceptive practice.
Here’s my (last) point. I just selected a BIN on eBay. The taxes are clearly listed BEFORE I confirm payment along with a tax disclaimer. I hate taxes as much as the next person but I have zero sympathy for the buyer in this case.
Something just dawned on me. Am I understanding that the buyer just clicked on Buy it Now and didn't pay for it? If that's the case...no harm, no foul! You can cancel the sale and ebay will relist it for free. Then you could just raise the price a little so it isn't taxed. If the buyer did pay and wanted to cancel that's a whole different animal thanks to Paypal.
Good screenshot.
When the buyer accepted the BIN button, he/she doesnt know the tax charged until the payment screen from Ebay/PP. By canceling before payment is made, it shouldn't caused too much hardship on the seller's end. PP couldnt docked their non-refundable fee & Ebay should be able to relist it for free and refund the seller's FV fee.
I had an ebay seller I was going back and forth with offers on send me a message and tell me "Find my website". I googled his username, found his site, contacted him there, and we arranged a deal off eBay, where he basically cut out eBays fee and it covered the $50 or so apart we were.
This may be a good way to approach these situations in the future.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@RedstoneCoins said:
eBay should not allow a person to click "Buy It Now" without showing the buyer the total all-in price that it will cost them to acquire the item, prior to committing to buy it.
eBay does show the buyer the total all-in price prior to committing to buy something.
I tried contacting the buyer with the aforementioned advice, and I have not received any reply back yet. Would you look at an item a little differently if it was listed for $1500.01? I would be a little suspicious.
oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's
If he can’t figure in the tax to his bid than he shouldn’t bid. Can’t tell you how many items I’ve purchased lately paying tax on all of them. It’s just the way it’s going to be from now on.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@oih82w8 said:
I tried contacting the buyer with the aforementioned advice, and I have not received any reply back yet. Would you look at an item a little differently if it was listed for $1500.01? I would be a little suspicious.
Why? I've used that strategy before by pricing something at $25.01 when there was a coupon for any purchase over $25. It saves the potential buyer the need to contact you and the $0.02 difference in price is virtually meaningless.
Comments
It does make you wonder what tactics the ultra rich do to avoid taxes on their expensive purchases. I mean if someone is buying a $50 million Monet artwork, surely they don’t want to pay $10 million in taxes.
Maybe my coin collection should be a 403(b). After all, it doesn’t see any real profit...
send him a BIN at $1501
Funny how numismatic investments are taxable but investments in stocks are not........ Some of us buy and hold coins as an investment, not as an expensive trinket.
OINK
Not at all. Consider what we have learned. California charges sales tax for most items sold on eBay. California doesn't charge sales tax on coins over $1500 (all at once). Buyer agreed to pay $1499 + (we can assume) at least $1 shipping. Buyer thinks he paid enough on coins that he exceeded the sales tax limit. California would have only charged sales tax on shipping if the coin had been $1 more. If it had been, say, $1510 with free shipping, there would have been the same price net to seller, but no tax due to buyer. It's understandable if the buyer was used to spending just over $1500 on coins with no tax implications, I can understand why he got upset.
Home State of the buyer dictates the tax rate.....
Seller should have priced the item at $1501.
Then none of this nonsense would have ever happened.
Stop blaming the buyer for not following through with a sale when the seller did not explain the all-in price.
As far as I am concerned, a seller (of anything - a car, a house, etc). has the full and sole obligation to explain the total cost of purchase, including taxes, title, license, transfer fees, registration fees, etc., to a buyer, in order for a sale to be executed.
If I offer to buy a house from you for $100,000 as my all-in offer, and tell you that all taxes and closing costs are your burden to bear out of that $100,000; if you come to me and say there is a $10,000 sales tax and $2500 closing/title fee that you didn't tell me about, then I would walk from the sale since you did not disclose that to me before initiating an agreement.
Sellers cannot demand additional taxes or fees they did not make completely clear were required to be paid by the Buyer prior to agreeing to sell an item to them. That is modifying a contract after it is signed, which is a form of fraud.
@RedstoneCoins - I understand your point but this would entail the seller knowing the tax regulations of all 50 states and the location of buyer before the completion of the transaction. The seller does not demand nor receive the tax resvenue. Ebay is collecting the taxes as required by law and distributing it to the state of residence of the buyer.
I just completed an auction to an out of state buyer on ebay. I had no idea who was going to win the auction and what state they resided in so it would be impossible to price the item based on information I couldn't possibly know.
eBay should not allow a person to click "Buy It Now" without showing the buyer the total all-in price that it will cost them to acquire the item, prior to committing to buy it.
This is the fundamental problem. eBay doesn't do that.
The seller should state in unequivocal terms that sales tax may be applied to the sale, depending on the state.
Frankly, eBay needs to handle this better.
But ultimately, it is always the responsibility of the seller to disclose all fees and costs involved in acquiring the item. Even if that means providing the taxes for all 50 states in the description.
Just because the law is complex and onerous does not mean you do not have to follow it. You have to follow the law. Disclosure is a part of the law. If you don't disclose something to someone in order to elicit their bid in a sale, and the omitted information fundamentally alters the status of the item in question, or the cost to acquire it, that is a failure on your part, along with any venue (eBay, or anyone else who facilitated it) who would also be an accessory to it.
For example, if I listed an item for $50 and said shipping was free of charge. Then after the sale, I messaged you and said my estimated shipping costs were underestimated and I wanted to charge you an additional $40 to ship the item on top of the $50 you already paid for it, that would clearly be failure to perform on my end, as well as fraud.
This is why in every case where prosecutors have gone after sales tax avoidance/circumvention cases, the seller was always held liable, not the individual buyers. Because the seller is ultimately responsible for tax collection and enforcement. eBay just politely tries to keep your business by making it easier on you by collecting on your behalf.
This will not stop until a uniform set of federal laws can clarify this issue. SCOTUS decision in the infamous "Wayfair" case that brought about unconstitutional interstate taxation of online sales is a disaster, and clear-cut example of legislating (more specifically, taxation) emanating from the judiciary, which is a power the Constitution reserves solely for the U.S. Congress.
But I digress.
Write your Congressman.
@RedstoneCoins I agree with you, but I’m sure there’s an end user license agreement, or other T&Cs document that we don’t read, but click “accept” on that covers eBay puts the onus back on it’s users/customers.
As I’ve had to tell many a contractor in a past life: “failure to read and understand your contract doesn’t mean you’re not obligated to it.” I know I haven’t read all the legal jargon on the bay, and I’ll bet it’s covered pretty specifically. (But I still pretty much agree with you)
@RedstoneCoins - your shipping example is a horse of a different color. Revising a shipping fee is clearly a deceptive practice.
Here’s my (last) point. I just selected a BIN on eBay. The taxes are clearly listed BEFORE I confirm payment along with a tax disclaimer. I hate taxes as much as the next person but I have zero sympathy for the buyer in this case.
Don't give them any more ideas!
And all of the services you are provided will go away with this 'crap'. Yikes......
So why not agree to the cancellation, turn around and sell it to him off ebay for $1500.01?
Best, SH
Something just dawned on me. Am I understanding that the buyer just clicked on Buy it Now and didn't pay for it? If that's the case...no harm, no foul! You can cancel the sale and ebay will relist it for free. Then you could just raise the price a little so it isn't taxed. If the buyer did pay and wanted to cancel that's a whole different animal thanks to Paypal.
Good screenshot.
When the buyer accepted the BIN button, he/she doesnt know the tax charged until the payment screen from Ebay/PP. By canceling before payment is made, it shouldn't caused too much hardship on the seller's end. PP couldnt docked their non-refundable fee & Ebay should be able to relist it for free and refund the seller's FV fee.
Seller is only out on time.
Note the part that say's no sales tax on any 1500+ purchase IF SHIPPED TO A CALIFORNIA ADDRESS
Steve
I had an ebay seller I was going back and forth with offers on send me a message and tell me "Find my website". I googled his username, found his site, contacted him there, and we arranged a deal off eBay, where he basically cut out eBays fee and it covered the $50 or so apart we were.
This may be a good way to approach these situations in the future.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
"UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA".
Anyone ever found this error on a U.S. Coin ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
eBay does show the buyer the total all-in price prior to committing to buy something.
I tried contacting the buyer with the aforementioned advice, and I have not received any reply back yet. Would you look at an item a little differently if it was listed for $1500.01? I would be a little suspicious.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
If he can’t figure in the tax to his bid than he shouldn’t bid. Can’t tell you how many items I’ve purchased lately paying tax on all of them. It’s just the way it’s going to be from now on.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Why? I've used that strategy before by pricing something at $25.01 when there was a coupon for any purchase over $25. It saves the potential buyer the need to contact you and the $0.02 difference in price is virtually meaningless.