A most impressive Dickeson Continental Dollar

Zoins · June 22, 2020 11:49PM

Montroville Dickeson commissioned these in 1876 for the US Centennial.

This is a broadstruck error in silver and possibly unique.

Do we know who Dickeson commissioned to make the dies and strike these?

Is the current owner or any provenance for this piece known?

Stacks: 2013 Baltimore sale: https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-2JA92/1776-1876-continental-dollar-dickeson-copy-silver-415-mm-hk-852-rarity-7-broadstruck-ms-61-ngc

See one struck on a 1887-S Double Eagle here:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1037316/an-interesting-sc-i-found-listed-at-collectors-corner#latest

Broadstruck · June 23, 2020 5:12AM

I held that in hand at lot viewing back then and it was neat. Yet when I got back into exonumia I was told by someone (can't remember who right now?) "Are you collecting tokens or errors" and it stuck. Although token and medal errors are cool unless extremely dramatic there's far less interest in them than with mint error coins.

ricko · June 23, 2020 5:46AM

Very nice token.... would like to have one of those....Not necessarily the error one...Cheers, RickO

Zoins · June 23, 2020 7:43AM

@Broadstruck said:
Are you collecting tokens or errors

How about having Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!

Zoins · June 23, 2020 11:04PM

For this particular one, one reason I like it is that the broadstrike and wear makes it look older. The better struck pieces couldn't pass for a 1776 piece but this one just might!

Broadstruck · June 24, 2020 3:52AM

@Zoins said:
For this particular one, one reason I like it is that the broadstrike and wear makes it look older. The better struck pieces couldn't pass for a 1776 piece but this one just might!

Do you also cruise senior citizen homes for dates so you can pretend she had tea with Betsy Ross?

Zoins · June 24, 2020 3:54AM

@Broadstruck said:

@Zoins said:
For this particular one, one reason I like it is that the broadstrike and wear makes it look older. The better struck pieces couldn't pass for a 1776 piece but this one just might!

Do you also cruise senior citizen homes for dates so you can pretend she had tea with Betsy Ross?

No, but I do buy Fugio cents

Do you prefer modern coins then?

Bsktmkr · September 13, 2020 3:22PM

I examined the broad struck piece pictured above. If you look carefully at the bottoms of the lettering on the obverse, in particular TAL, you will notice that the bases are deformed. I have a cast copy of the Sommers Island copy with the same deformation in the bases of the letters. After examining the piece in person, I came to the conclusion that it is a cast copy and not an original die struck Dickeson Continental Dollar.

Zoins · September 13, 2020 3:41PM

@Bsktmkr said:
I examined the broad struck piece pictured above. If you look carefully at the bottoms of the lettering on the obverse, in particular TAL, you will notice that the bases are deformed. I have a cast copy of the Sommers Island copy with the same deformation in the bases of the letters. After examining the piece in person, I came to the conclusion that it is a cast copy and not an original die struck Dickeson Continental Dollar.

Wow. The lettering effect also shows on the RRE. Given that it sold for $3,525, would the buyer have any recourse with Stack's or NGC? The 2013 lot listing indicates NGC but interestingly, there is no slab photo.

Bsktmkr · September 13, 2020 3:56PM

My cast Sommers Island copy. Note the bases of the I LA. The S also has an issue, but is is less obvious.

An original for comparison.

keets · September 13, 2020 4:11PM

that affect on the lettering isn't an artifact of the die, it's caused by a metal flow problem. considering that the OP medal was struck with no collar, leaving less metal for the interior of the struck piece, it should have had a metal flow problem. cast copies will typically have a granular surface, apparent on your counterfeit. I don't see that on the OP medal which has smooth surfaces and unstruck planchet flaws. the medal can be viewed enlarged at Heritage, showing clear evidence of poor metal flow on both sides.

for those reasons, I can't agree with the contention by Bsktmkr that this is a counterfeit.

Bsktmkr · September 13, 2020 4:40PM

These were struck on a screw press and took multiple strikes to bring out the full detail, so I am willing to accept that it could well be a reject that survived.

CaptHenway · September 13, 2020 4:56PM

@Bsktmkr said:
I examined the broad struck piece pictured above. If you look carefully at the bottoms of the lettering on the obverse, in particular TAL, you will notice that the bases are deformed. I have a cast copy of the Sommers Island copy with the same deformation in the bases of the letters. After examining the piece in person, I came to the conclusion that it is a cast copy and not an original die struck Dickeson Continental Dollar.

That deformation is called “bifurcation.” Do a search for multiple older threads with my explanation of it. This is a not a cast piece.

Zoins · September 13, 2020 5:08PM

Nice info @keets and @CaptHenway.

I did find this 2008 post on bifurcation:

@CaptHenway wrote on September 9, 2008:

CaptainRon......getting back to your OP, there is only one die pair. As the numbers, stars and lettering were put on the dies one by one via hand-held punches, there would be numerous positional differences had two different die pairs been made.

I personally do not see any differences in the positions of the wingtips relative to the letters. You may have some striking differences (note the bifurcation in the lettering on the one coin), but they are still the same dies.

Captain Henway

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/676903/how-many-sets-of-dies-were-created-and-used-for-the-1792-half-dimes

CaptHenway · September 13, 2020 6:06PM

See this:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/746410/unusual-tooling-on-54-s-jeff/p1

A most impressive Dickeson Continental Dollar

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