Options
An interesting SC$ I found listed at Collectors Corner.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
I suppose I knew these existed but hadn't seen/heard of one prior to finding it at the "Collectors Corner" under the So-Called Dollar listings. Hibler-Kappen 2nd Edition lists it as HK-852b Gold. 40.5mm to 41mm. 56.8 grams and this example has the added caveat of having been over-struck on a $20 Gold Liberty. I thought followers of this niche would enjoy seeing it.
I copied the images below but this link https://collectorscorner.com/Products/Item.aspx?id=47498235 will allow the image to be viewed much larger and, if interested, instructions for purchase. It's a bit "spendy" for a SC$, though!!! 
Al H.
6
Comments
Dumb question, but how could it be that size and weight if struck on a $20 Liberty which is smaller and lighter? Is this a variant of HK-852b, perhaps HK-852c?
Nice looking!
I remember seeing an ad for this or another one in Coin World back in (IIRC) 1976.
Dumb question, but how could it be that size and weight if struck on a $20 Liberty which is smaller and lighter? Is this a variant of HK-852b, perhaps HK-852c?
not a dumb question at all, actually a very well reasoned question.
I have been questioning here at the forum to both PCGS and NGC: Why don't won't you place the weight and diameter of certain medals on the insert?? both TPG's do it for some medals but others such as this, which could prove helpful, fail to have anything added. just from doing a comparison of pictures with a standard HK-852 it seems clear that this medal has a larger diameter, but that could be easily estimated with accuracy even in the holder.
what seems high is the weight. no mention of this is listed in the 1st Edition. perhaps it is a typo in the 2nd Edition, but I doubt it. there are a couple of members who might be able to help since they were involved in the gathering of information for the 2nd Edition.
MINE!
I wish.
Is that struck from the Bowers dies or Bashlow dies?
Beautiful So-Called Dollar!
Great find @keets ! Awesome that it's in an older holder too.
I'd assume Bowers given that he commissioned it per the description.
I need new glasses! 🤣
Looking at the magnified pictures, there does seem to be some traces of the original coin still visible on the reverse...Cheers, RickO
They forgot the right parentheses after the date on the label.
(1961
Man, that would annoy me to no end if it were mine.
A permanent marker can fix that
Anyone know who did the restrikes for Bowers?
I believe they were minted by John Pinches & Sons of England.
Very cool. Mine is a different color and a whole lot cheaper.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
Nice !!!
Calling it a "restrike" rather than a "replica" is far more annoying to me.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
There might be some reasoning I am not privy to, but I agree. How is this token a "restrike"?
It’s a restrike of a replica
Although it is an interesting strike, in reality this SCD has less numismatic significance than a Civil War struck over dime. They're both concoctions made for sport on request but at least the over dimes use original concept dies. Now in the convoluted collector world of today the view is quite different and the conver$ation occurs on different terms.
How is this token a "restrike"?
the original was a Continental Dollar and Dickeson made copies around 1876, although "Copy" probably isn't a good description, they look entirely different. the term "replica" by Zoins is a better fit. during the period around 1915-1920 Elder made restrikes using the Dickeson dies. subsequent to that Bashlow made more and then Bowers made some.
by my reckoning and using what Bowers made as our beginning, those are a Copy of a Copy of a Restrike of a Replica of a Continental Dollar.
Bowers was only 23 when he commissioned this 😳
That's pretty impressive.
I wonder how many other YNs commissioned pieces to be struck so early. Certainly August Sage. Any others?
Thread Revival
You snooze you lose!
The price has gone up now!
This is interesting. It's still offered by Brian Hodge, President of Minshull Trading...
...but is also now offered for more by Apmex. Does Apmex resell things it doesn't have or do they have this now?
Although it is an interesting strike, in reality this SCD has less numismatic significance than a Civil War struck over dime.
and the argument could be made that both are less Historically significant than a 1943 Steel Cent.
The difference between this and the Civil War piece is that a Civil War token was originally made for commerce. This piece was made to celebrate the centennial of the country and based on, well, what seems to be a European medal made some years after the original Declaration of Independence. As such, an argument could also be made that an original Continental Dollar "coin" has less numismatic significance than say a 1943 Steel Cent too!
This piece was made to celebrate the centennial of the country.
well, not really. this piece, struck in 1961, was an financial endeavor by Bowers and the Gold was most probably for someone/something special, maybe even for Bowers as a keepsake. it should be noted that during the past year he has sold quite a large number of Tokens from his personal collection.
I intended to talk about the Montroville Dickeson dies and 1876 original Dickeson strikings, but should have made that more clear.
Is it known how the Dickeson pieces were distributed for the Centennial?
Haha me too actually. 🤓
Super cool piece.
And what a lovely ride it has been! I wish I had more money to throw at his offerings, as some of this stuff has been locked away for 4 and 5 decades.
Which begs the question:
Do all of these rare pieces go back into hiding or are they bounced around from eBay to Stacks to eBay to GC to eBay to Heritage like numismatic ping pong?
The days of a massive collection like his (or Brand, Ford, Tanenbaum, Partrick, etc.) staying off market for half a century may be gone. Exonumia has become more popular, and with an increase in popularity, prices are climbing.
But that is probably for another thread
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
It is interesting to know about who is building vs. selling collections. A lot of great exonumia show up at Stack's without any provenance.
I wonder who picked up the Partrick tokens. I would have loved to get some but they are out of my wheelhouse at the moment. Wonder if when they will show up on the market again. I find it fascinating that many were in old ATS holders without TrueViews. It kind of makes them more mysterious.
It reminds me of the Ostheimer Collection of So-Called Dollars which was off the market for 45+ years.
@Zoins
I really wish I pushed more on the Partrick auction. Some incredible pieces! I did not know that the man collected exonumia like that.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Do all of these rare pieces go back into hiding or are they bounced around from eBay to Stacks to eBay to GC to eBay to Heritage like numismatic ping pong?
speaking only for myself, I am a collector trying to shape and hold my collection as long as I can, but that just can't be 40-50 years. unfortunately, I didn't embark upon my serious collecting until I was nearing 45 years of age. also, my strategy is to sell/upgrade when possible, thus financing what I have instead of keeping everything I ever buy. without knowing the ages of my forum cohorts it's hard to tell who is similarly situated, but I'd bet the boat is crowded.
collecting is different today than it was in the past, coins seem as though they are way, way more expensive by comparison to the days of the old timers like Brand, Ford, Tanenbaum, Partrick, etc. and it limits many of us. my hunch is that there are quite a few collections around which are very nice although not into the multi-millions of dollars in value, but still collections to be respected. they don't seem to be sold in the big catalogue fashion because they just aren't that big, but there's lots of coins tied up.
to answer your question, I think some stuff from bigger auctions gets flipped quickly but I think a good amount, especially of the better quality, rare and expensive items get held for a long time.
Eric P. Newman lived until 106
retirement and a fixed income have drastically altered my ability to be a serious buyer.