When you cross coins from NGC to PCGS ....
bidask
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Do you send in the NGC label to request that NGC delete that particular coin from their pop database ?
If so, what is your experience with NGC fulfilling your request to do so?
Thank you,
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I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
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Yes, I send in NGC labels after I've crossed the coins to PCGS or cracked them out. I'm not sure about your second question about fulfilling my request. I have no correspondence with them other than returning the labels.
I have about 40 NGC labels where the coins have crossed but I have yet to send into NGC cause I’m paranoid they would not perform on my request to delete the coin from their database. I have no proof they would not however .
I am thinking as an alternative to take pics of the labels and send those pics in instead of the actual labels themselves.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Your efforts are commendable, but I think you’re trying to put out a house fire with a thimble.
I have a small pile of labels that I will give to a couple of different grading companies at Winter FUN, assuming there is a Winter FUN. I won't spend time and money to ship them anywhere though.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Meaning ...?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
The pop reports are so off that they are not reliable. Crackouts and those who never bother to send them in are big reasons why. I think that is what he is suggesting.
Both NGC and PCGS have reliably deleted the coins from their pop reports in my experience.
Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com
CN eBay
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
I believe he is insinuating that there are thousands and thousands of labels that do not get turned in so for the couple that do, it helps very little. A thimble of water instead of buckets and fire hoses etc.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I get that !
However when are only a handful graded coins at either TPG service I still have doubts to turn over the labels .
I should have made that more clear .
I am glad to hear CuKevin had positive experiences.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
So- because you're worried they won't delete the coin from their database, you choose a course of action that, in effect, assures they can't delete the coin from their database? I guess I'm not seeing the upside here.
That is correct . No upside until I can be sure they will be deleted !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
??? As long as you hold onto them, they can't be deleted. Do you want them deleted, or not?
Didn't the grading services pay 50 cents for each returned label?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
1735 MO 8E in 65, never updated the NGC database despite the label going in
1765 Guatemala 8R, been 3 weeks, no update to the NGC registry.
Experience not good with them updating.
Latin American Collection
Yes I do 😊
These are rare coins ....Mexican 8 reales first republic ( granted darkside but same issue ) .... what do you suggest ?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
That’s what I am talking about !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I've given up on the thimble.
After a cross I usually secure the old, often higher grade NGC cert to the reverse of the PCGS holder. So that it's clear this PCGS AU58 was previously graded MS62 by NGC, for example.
Lance.
Once upon a time they did. My understanding is NGC merely says thank you now. I think I heard PCGS will do something small for a large enough batch like a free grading cert or something. But neither may be true today any longer.
That is a good suggestion, thank you .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Send them in. They'll either do it or not. You can be pretty sure that, as long as you have them, they won't get deleted. Sending them pics of the labels? I'd be surprised if that would work. How would they know that the image you sent was legitimate? I'm quite sure it wouldn't take more than a few minutes to create a fake pic of labels of "cracked out" coins.
I'm a little OCD. So I first put the NGC label on a piece of clear packaging tape and fold the tape over it, effectively laminating the cert. Trim with scissors. A little double-sided scotch tape finishes things nicely.
Lance.
Do you do the same thing when the new PCGS grade is higher than the old NGC grade?
And if they do not then what ?
Hassle with them to do it ? No thanks 😊
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Just a little OCD ...
nonetheless, good idea
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
That's happened several times, with crosses and crackouts. Even with ANACS and ICG.
Yes, I do the same thing. I figure it's part of the coin's history that shouldn't be lost.
Lance.
Nothing. As far as the pop reports go, you're no worse off than if you keep them.
Did NGC ever announce that they stopped the label buyback program?
Here is a thread from 2018 where they still did it:
https://www.ngccoin.com/boards/topic/412515-ngc-label-buyback/
And the original post:
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/4438/label-buyback-program-/
If I can prove they don’t exist anymore at NGC by keeping their labels clearly I’m better off .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I suppose if you want to travel around the country to show them to people, you're right.
Based upon the coins I have seen BidAsk post, I knew if was mostly or entirely non-US. If the coin is really rare like the two you listed here, I don't think it matters. Any knowledgeable buyer is likely to know or can find out it's a duplicate. It isn't like this type of coin hardly ever exists in the same grades as these two. It's cheaper coin but I have a 1759 Peru 2R MS-63 that is listed in both that I know is a duplicate.
Different consideration but there is a difference in relative marketability between US coinage and others. I understand why others cross US coinage. I wouldn't bother with the coins I own because I don't think it would make any difference.
Most serious buyers of rare coins look up pops.
If I looked up a 1759 2 reales I would think 2 coins grade at 63 ....one at each service .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Most serious buyers understand the limitations of the pop reports.
edited to add... And if the buyer is really a serious collector, he will have a pretty good idea of when the pop report is wrong, and why.
I doubt that 😊
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
That's certainly your prerogative.
Complete foolishness. You assert that you can prove something by holding the certs, prove to who? Are you planning to travel around the country with a stop in each state and hold a press conference to announce that you can prove the pop report is wrong because you have not returned the certs?
Talk about chasing your tail, you want to prove something is true because of your inactions make it true.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I was hoping PCGS would get that recognition software up and running so they can prune the pop numbers.
I'm thinking folks would be shocked when they see the "jump-coins" pops get cut by 1/3. (wild guess)
It would be interesting to see how many non-TV cert numbers are in the last few rows.
My Saint Set
They don't know the series if they think that. Sure, it's possible but very unlikely.
Exactly.
Why would a buyer care that you have purposely skewed the NGC pop report by not sending in the cert when the coin is in PCGS plastic?
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Only if advantageous for me. This has occurred only in a few cases for me where the total population for a coin between NGC/PCGS was less than 10 in all grades combined.
If crossing a coin with a super low population across the board. For non ultra rarity example think cameo proof Buffalo nickel, non-1939 cameo Mercury Dime, or cameo Liberty Walking half dollar, I do think keeping an accurate population report shows the true rarity of the coins. It might hold true for PL/DMPl coins as well for certain dates. Then there are ultra rarities and very tough varieties.
As my op stated Ihave some doubts about NGC removing coins from there data base if their certs were surrendered to them
That’s what Brian experienced
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
First world problems, for sure.
The US pop reports for various dates is likely off by a range of 20-25% in view of cross overs and crack outs in an effort maximize the grade. Fixing this is not something that can easily be done.
In thinking about the OP, world coin submissions are still at a stage where the population reports could still be managed. Unfortunately, it has not really been established that there is an appetite to effective update pop reports. And it should be noted that the world coin market is just different in that one can not and should not rely solely on population reports to determine rarity and surviving population.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Correct, it just depends upon the series. Generically, here are the primary reasons it isn't representative and why it's usually badly understated:
One: The coins are mostly owned by collectors who do not like TPG, particularly outside the US and the low number of other countries where it isn't preferred. (This would mostly be China, South Africa and maybe Canada. Excludes NCLT as it's a lot more common with this coinage and the survival rate is close to 100% anyway. I have also noticed the counts are meaningful for other coinage but don't know or believe it indicates a strong preference. Example is Australia and Korea.)
Two: TPG grading does little if anything to noticeably improve marketability. In some instances, it's my opinion that "details" grading reduces it. The coin is worth more ungraded in the home market than in the holder.
Three: The coins are owned by non-collectors who don't know what they have. This is more likely with more recent coinage or in markets with little if any organized collecting.
There are no absolutes here. I use a combination of the TPG data, prior sales, mintage data and a guesstimate of attrition by comparing the coin or series to those (mostly US) with better estimates.
One other thing to consider with world coinage is that with population counts so low, a higher supply (if it actually exists) doesn't necessarily mean the coin should be worth less. The supply for many of the most preferred world coinage is so low that there is at least equal reason to believe that it reduces the (potential) collector base since there is little if anything to buy. A higher supply might be more than offset by increased demand.
I have no doubt the bags of Morgan dollars that sat in vaults for generations are a good example of this. People don't generally start collections of coins they have no realistic hope of ever acquiring.
I’m attempting to collect them all .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
What did you find so amusing in my prior post? If you think my comments are so off base, just come out and say it.
Huh ? Ok ....the above comment is off base.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.