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Guess the Grade - 1872 Indian Head - Grade revealed and pic added

mothra454mothra454 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭
edited September 3, 2020 5:13AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I know the pics suck, but I don't have it in hand yet. Just wondering what the local experts think of the grade....


And here's the holder. It sounds like a lot of posters had it right - at one time this was judged VF20, but compared to more recently graded ones could probably slab as a 25 or 30?

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Comments

  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,963 ✭✭✭✭✭

    VF35, maybe EF40

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,837 ✭✭✭✭✭

    20

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,645 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I thought VF at first glance. 25 or so ?

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  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,645 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Photo is compliments of pcgs coinfacts. Screenshot is just a courtesy.

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  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,740 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Guessing the NGC holder says VF35, my grade is VF25.

    Nice color and look on a super tough earlier date in the upper circ grades like this.

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  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    VF30 popped in my head, nice coin!

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  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,727 ✭✭✭✭✭

    VF20, no more. I don't like the gunk around the lettering as it can hide corrosion.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • mothra454mothra454 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    Thanks for all your guesses, keep 'em coming! I certainly think it's a nice coin (color, look, and strike) despite the gunk. What's the etiquette on when to reveal the answer?

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  • MASSU2MASSU2 Posts: 267 ✭✭✭✭

    To me, that's a VF20 but I assume it's slabbed higher at 25 or 30.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,628 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would give her a VF20...ATS is a little looser on their grades though.

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  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMO, thats an old school Vf-20, but wouldnt be surprised if its a 30-35 as thats how they grade them now (pst 10-15 years)

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    VF30 or VF25 if the graders were in a bad mood or did not like the gunk. As to when to reveal the answer most give it 10hrs to a day before showing.

    My Lincoln Registry
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  • CalifornianKingCalifornianKing Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭✭

    I'd call it a VF25

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not my series, but my initial thought was lower end VF.

    My Roosevelt Dime Registry Set
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm with a lotta folks here. It is just barely a VF old school but nowadays I think it's probably in a 30 holder. Heck, I've seen worse in 40 holders!

  • jedmjedm Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If that's not a 30 I'd be surprised.

  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 11,009 ✭✭✭✭✭

    VF30

  • oldUScoinsoldUScoins Posts: 243 ✭✭✭✭

    VF20

  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭✭✭

    VF30. But the coin looks dirty. An acetone dip might help the black stuff on the reverse?

  • ShaunBC5ShaunBC5 Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I thought 40 when I first saw it. Haven’t been looking at them long enough to think new/old school. Just looks like a lot of details in a crummy pic.

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,894 ✭✭✭✭✭

    VF20.
    Lance.

    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,654 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with Lance, VF20.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

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  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would go with VF30....Cheers, RickO

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,429 ✭✭✭✭✭

    30

    Latin American Collection

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    30

  • mothra454mothra454 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    Thanks all for your input! I posted a pic of the slab in the first post now. It definitely seems like one of those old school/new school differences that had it at a VF20 back then (30 years ago or so?), but when I looked at comps these days it compared favorably with VF30 pics. I don't like the gunk on there either, but I'm not gonna crack it out to restore it just yet ;)

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  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,645 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jedm said:
    If that's not a 30 I'd be surprised.

    Them old anacs slabs, we spoke about in the shop recently, are coming to roost.
    I would think restoration services and crossover might boost the value of this one.

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  • mothra454mothra454 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @jedm said:
    If that's not a 30 I'd be surprised.

    Them old anacs slabs, we spoke about in the shop recently, are coming to roost.
    I would think restoration services and crossover might boost the value of this one.

    Thanks for the advice! Not sure what you mean by "coming to roost"?

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  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ANACS was extremely tight at times in the past. I got a seated dime that was in a photo cert that was graded AU55, sent to our hosts and it came back 63!

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  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,645 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mothra454 said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @jedm said:
    If that's not a 30 I'd be surprised.

    Them old anacs slabs, we spoke about in the shop recently, are coming to roost.
    I would think restoration services and crossover might boost the value of this one.

    Thanks for the advice! Not sure what you mean by "coming to roost"?

    Some people are collectors of the old white anacs slabs. Coming to roost meaning it's nice to see one parked here. But, being that I like coins, they're all okay by me wherever they're roosting.

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  • mothra454mothra454 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    Ah gotcha. I like old holders of all types, I was looking at a Morgan CC in a PCGS OGH when I came across this one. You're right that the older holders are best when they come back to those who appreciate them.

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  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,894 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Huh. I thought "coming (home) to roost" meant bad things done in the past come back to bite you. Or is that only if it's chickens roosting, not old small ANACS slabs?

    Whatever. I love those ANACS slabs.
    Lance.

    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,727 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I find the positive comments about the old ANACS slabs to be darkly amusing. When they were current many dealers, especially the big name "investment" types would badmouth them without fail. Many still do.

    The VF 20 grade was correct then and is still correct today.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • mothra454mothra454 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2020 6:15AM

    @291fifth said:
    I find the positive comments about the old ANACS slabs to be darkly amusing. When they were current many dealers, especially the big name "investment" types would badmouth them without fail. Many still do.

    The VF 20 grade was correct then and is still correct today.

    Interesting, thanks! I looked up a couple examples of other VF grades in more recent holders to compare it to, even with my poor grading skills. For my education, can you show me what features make these other coins grade higher?

    https://davidlawrence.com/product/1931356/#

    https://lccoins.com/default/1872-indian-cent-vf35-pcgs.html

    Edit: fixed 2nd link

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  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,727 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mothra454 said:

    @291fifth said:
    I find the positive comments about the old ANACS slabs to be darkly amusing. When they were current many dealers, especially the big name "investment" types would badmouth them without fail. Many still do.

    The VF 20 grade was correct then and is still correct today.

    Interesting, thanks! I looked up a couple examples of other VF grades in more recent holders to compare it to, even with my poor grading skills. For my education, can you show me what features make these other coins grade higher?

    https://davidlawrence.com/product/1931356/#

    https://lccoins.com/default/1872-indian-cent-vf35-pcgs.html

    In the case of the first coin shown I personally would reject it as a VF25. I don't like the look of the coin at all and would pass on it regardless of the stated grade. Remember, this is about "opinions" and "opinions" can and do vary a lot in the world of coin collecting. Grade conservatively. If in doubt, it always goes to the lower grade. Think like a dealer. Buy like a dealer.

    The second coin would not load so I can't comment on it.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • mothra454mothra454 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:

    @mothra454 said:

    @291fifth said:
    I find the positive comments about the old ANACS slabs to be darkly amusing. When they were current many dealers, especially the big name "investment" types would badmouth them without fail. Many still do.

    The VF 20 grade was correct then and is still correct today.

    Interesting, thanks! I looked up a couple examples of other VF grades in more recent holders to compare it to, even with my poor grading skills. For my education, can you show me what features make these other coins grade higher?

    https://davidlawrence.com/product/1931356/#

    https://lccoins.com/default/1872-indian-cent-vf35-pcgs.html

    In the case of the first coin shown I personally would reject it as a VF25. I don't like the look of the coin at all and would pass on it regardless of the stated grade. Remember, this is about "opinions" and "opinions" can and do vary a lot in the world of coin collecting. Grade conservatively. If in doubt, it always goes to the lower grade. Think like a dealer. Buy like a dealer.

    The second coin would not load so I can't comment on it.

    Oops I messed up the link, but I edited the post to correct it. Let me know what you think of that one too. I definitely agree that all of these types of discussions are based on opinion, but I'm trying to improve my grading skills by looking at specific features that help or hurt a coin's grade in peoples opinions. I know that the "look" or "eye appeal" of a coin can be hard to describe, but what bothers you about the look of it?

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  • ElectricityElectricity Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭

    I didn’t post my Guess on this coin as others had already put down their responses which were around my VF30 guess. Not the brightest pic but the Rims and dentils look sharp, I think I see a diamond+ and overall even wear and good eye appeal.

    I think our host would upgrade this coin and even do a conservation as I think it would improve the appearance of the reverse. However I enjoy the Small ANACS holders and the price difference between 20-40 isn’t worth the grading fee.

    Nice Coin

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,727 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mothra454 said:

    @291fifth said:

    @mothra454 said:

    @291fifth said:
    I find the positive comments about the old ANACS slabs to be darkly amusing. When they were current many dealers, especially the big name "investment" types would badmouth them without fail. Many still do.

    The VF 20 grade was correct then and is still correct today.

    Interesting, thanks! I looked up a couple examples of other VF grades in more recent holders to compare it to, even with my poor grading skills. For my education, can you show me what features make these other coins grade higher?

    https://davidlawrence.com/product/1931356/#

    https://lccoins.com/default/1872-indian-cent-vf35-pcgs.html

    In the case of the first coin shown I personally would reject it as a VF25. I don't like the look of the coin at all and would pass on it regardless of the stated grade. Remember, this is about "opinions" and "opinions" can and do vary a lot in the world of coin collecting. Grade conservatively. If in doubt, it always goes to the lower grade. Think like a dealer. Buy like a dealer.

    The second coin would not load so I can't comment on it.

    Oops I messed up the link, but I edited the post to correct it. Let me know what you think of that one too. I definitely agree that all of these types of discussions are based on opinion, but I'm trying to improve my grading skills by looking at specific features that help or hurt a coin's grade in peoples opinions. I know that the "look" or "eye appeal" of a coin can be hard to describe, but what bothers you about the look of it?

    In the case of the first coin it just looks like it lived a hard circulation life. There is a nick near the rim that bothers me and the surface texture looks mildly rough. I want smooth, mark-free surfaces.

    In the case of the second coin I would not accept it as a VF 35. In my opinion it is a marginal VF30 at best. There is too much wear on "LIBERTY" and on the band that crosses the hair to make VF30 by my standards. Set your standards high when looking for popular coins. They are out there and will just take a bit of time, patience and perhaps money to find.

    The 1872 Indian cent is not a rare coin but it is popular. A collector in my area once put together a hoard of nearly 200 choice 1872 Indian cents. (The hoard was dispersed some years ago.)

    Set your standards high and stick to them. Very few US coins are rare or even scarce.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,645 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lkeigwin said:
    Huh. I thought "coming (home) to roost" meant bad things done in the past come back to bite you. Or is that only if it's chickens roosting, not old small ANACS slabs?

    Whatever. I love those ANACS slabs.
    Lance.

    Nah, you just misinterpret like the world at large.

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,645 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    I find the positive comments about the old ANACS slabs to be darkly amusing. When they were current many dealers, especially the big name "investment" types would badmouth them without fail. Many still do.

    The VF 20 grade was correct then and is still correct today.

    Maybe. Maybe not.

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,727 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @291fifth said:
    I find the positive comments about the old ANACS slabs to be darkly amusing. When they were current many dealers, especially the big name "investment" types would badmouth them without fail. Many still do.

    The VF 20 grade was correct then and is still correct today.

    Maybe. Maybe not.

    It is a matter of "opinion". isn't it!

    All glory is fleeting.
  • mothra454mothra454 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    Thanks for all the comments guys, it really helps show me what to look for in circulated coins. I definitely enjoy old holders too, since they're often scarce and give some character to a coin with high population. If I were ever to crack it out, I would definitely go the conservation route because it does seem to have strong features like the dentils and a good strike, so it may have decent eye appeal if given a bath after 150 years!

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