Do you buy Slabbed Coins with "Details" Cleaned? Example MS 60 "Details Cleaned"
Kirk222
Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
I ask because I see that ANACS grades coins sometimes as, for instance, AU 58 "Details Cleaned". And sometimes sellers ask the price of a straight graded coin AU 58. Do you ever buy these coins for the straight graded price? And why? Do any of you sellers discount such coins?
0
Comments
I never buy ‘details’ coins. Those coins are just bullion to me. It kills the value of key coins.
I have a few details graded gold coins that I was able to buy at a big enough discount to spot. Otherwise it’s very unlikely I would buy a details graded coin.
I would never buy a details coin. There are too many nice coins out there to bother with the known problem ones. Life is short!
He who knows he has enough is rich.
As a small fish low budget collector, I was happy to buy a cleaned F15 details 1895 S Morgan at a decent price. There are just some instances that a problem coin may be all that I could afford.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Nope ... I never do.
It depends on how apparent the cleaning is. I have gotten coins labeled as cleaned into straight graded holders before and would buy one if I thought it might later grade. The coin below was bought raw and is labeled as cleaned, but I feel it would eventually grade if it was resubmitted because the cleaning is not really apparent.
It depends on the coin, price and how bad the cleaning. I wouldn't pay straight grade money though. I try to follow "Buy the coin not the holder". I've seen older holders of grading services and sometimes new holders where the coin had a light cleaning. Instead of a details grade, they net graded and gave it a straight grade. This was also brought up a few days ago by one of our other members.
I won't say I'll never buy a details coin, but thus far, I haven't (well, that's not totally true, but the one I bought was in a rare slab, and even then, the problem wasn't terrible and the coin cheap). In general, I'd prefer the problem-free coin a grade or two lower than the problem coin with better details priced at the same level. I value nice, original pieces, and in particular with cleaning, you're not likely to find that.
That said, I can think of a few scenarios where I would consider a problem coin. First, every so often, you find a coin that has a head-scratching problem. If I really can't find the problem, and especially if there's a discount, it might be worth it. Additionally, my details argument may not always hold. Consider a chain cent, which is expensive if it's so much as identifiable in the most minor way. I may be willing to accept a bit of roughness--and perhaps a details/environmental damage--to get a coin with more meat. But since those coins often come that way, the corrosion required to get the coin labeled as such may be enough that I no longer would consider it. Price is king--if the graders were really harsh and the damage really is minor, there might not be much of a discount, and the value proposition may be lowered.
Back to your question, most details cleaned coins stick out like a sore thumb, and I'd never consider them. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe if I really couldn't see the issue, but having the nagging feeling that I might later discover the problem and that a details coin is harder to sell, it's not likely. I certainly wouldn't do it if the coin were priced as problem-free.
One last thought: when problems are really minor, the coins often get net graded--knocked down a point or two--but not put in a details holder. I have one coin like that, and I love it. This quarter is an NGC MS63. It has an old scratch in the neck that is toned in with the rest of the coin and not really distracting. Without it, the coin's at least a 65. If the scratch were fresh, the coin would be in a details holder, but given everything else the coin has going for it, I'm fine with it at a 63, and it's a piece I've treasured for the 15+ years I've owned it.
No
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
No cleaned, but have bought a few very old foreign raw that were details graded for one reason or another. Bought them as examples of foreign coins that circulated in early America, so kept them. Some of the reasons for details were things that gave these old coins character. I've seen worse IMO that graded.
No.
My general rule is no; although I broke that rule a couple of years ago on a Fugio "environmental damage". Actually the coin itself was pretty nice for the price, but I still have some regrets in that it is the only details coin I own and I should have just boned up for a straight grade coin.
Successful BST Transactions: erwindoc, VTchaser, moursund, robkool, RelicKING, Herb_T, Meltdown, ElmerFusterpuck, airplanenut
I buy coins I like, anything under MS66 really is a details grade
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Usually no, and absolutely only at a significantly discounted price when compared to a straight-grade holder.
Yes. In the world of old copper, whether or not to issue a Details grade for an old cleaning is apparently based on the flipping of the coin in question. I have straight-graded Draped Bust Large Cents which have clearly been cleaned and others, with no discernible signs of cleaning, which have detailed. I follow my own standards for eye appeal (but do take into account the impact on resale value of the Details label).
Smitten with DBLCs.
R-5+ bust halves, yes, at a significant discount to straight-graded. Many of the rare ones are tough to find straight-graded and thus very expensive.
Some collectors think "don't pay uncleaned price for a cleaned coin" or " don't buy a cleaned common coin if nice ones are easy to find " means " never buy a cleaned coin"
I'm not among them, i like to buy a a lightly cleaned very rare coin as a net grade several levels lower in price.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Here's a problem coin I bought from another forum member. I submitted it several years ago and it came back in a *.92 cleaned holder. Three dealers (who you would all recognize) have looked at it. Two thought it looked fine. One thought it could go either way. I'll buy problem coins at problem coin prices all day long if they look like this:
Might as well say "salvage title." Junk to me.
I’ve had really good luck with salvage title vehicles. Haven’t tried a cleaned/details coin yet, but if I got the value out of one like I have the cars, I’d take it.
Wouldn’t pay close to clean title price for a salvage title car, wouldn’t pay close to straight grade price for a details coin.
I've bought several body-bagged coins I thought were unfairly appraised and had them graded again. About half the time they got straight grades, like @TennesseeDave said.
Here are a couple. An 1827 R5 which graded XF45. And an 1817 which graded AU55.
I have a couple more I felt good about but couldn't straight grade. Like the 1821 below. Still, a very nice coin.
Lance.
I have one.
I would only buy one if I disagreed with the designation and thought I might have better luck upon resubmission. Either way, the coin would trade at a deep discount as is.
Generally no, but there can be exceptions.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Two words... it depends.
For the most part I prefer unadulterated straight graded coins. However, once I finish my current type set project and move to 18th C type, I'll likely acquire some cleaned or otherwise "details" coins. It will depend upon how severe the damage is and how steep the discount over a straight grade. I've already bought a Draped Bust LC that would likely be on the fence for a details coin (there's micro porosity, probably environmental) but it's certainly not terminal and it looks to have XF details. I purchased this piece from a reputable dealer and it was explained to me at the time of purchase what the issues were... and a significant discount over a straight grade. As I move more into earlier type, I rather doubt I'll be well-heeled enough to obtain a straight grade Small Eagle quarter. .. it just depends on how problematic. .
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
It depends on the coin and how harsh the cleaning is. I wouldn't have a problem with a lightly cleaned coin at the right price.
I would buy one, but it would be at melt price during the bear cycle of Gold and Silver. It's worth paying more to get MS66.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
No. Just not my thing. I figure if I buy someone else’s problem now it just becomes my problem later. To each his own.
It depends on the coin, the nature of the damage, and the asking price. We all generally avoid problem coins for obvious reasons. In some cases a coin is so rare that a problem coin is the only affordable option. Early NC copper cents are an example of this. I don't see any excuse for buying a common date modern coin with problems unless it's priced below melt value or face value.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
In most cases, I would not consider a 'details' coin....and, in fact, have none in my collection. Now, a raw coin, with questionable features, could get my attention... as some of our members have posted above (i.e. Peace dollar, Lance's Bust Halves). I evaluate each coin (slabbed or not) on their condition and price....mostly condition. Since I am buying for my personal satisfaction (and not the market or other's opinions), it is my decision. I am happy with my coins. Cheers, RickO
No, but, I did buy one that had "Questionable Color", because I thought it looked really nice!
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
I haven't bought any yet, but I have tried! I keep getting outbid. Guess someone else thinks the problem coin is worth more that I am willing to pay.
Around these parts, salvage titles with broken frames are being bought and having the title "cleaned" via Oregon registration and being returned for a "pure" sale.
Yes, but it is hard to put a price on them like an 89-cc Morgan. How would you value that?
Yikes. That's scary and illegal (at least where I've lived). Apparently buying "details" graded coins and cracking them out of r a shot at a straight grade is common practice.
I'm honestly a better judge of vehicles than I am coins, and we have to have vehicles where I live (commute, no public transit, etc.). Coins aren't a requirement in most of our lives and we can be more selective, but also have less risk. If my car quits/breaks, I'm in trouble. The coins just have to bring us joy. I typically drive my cars into the ground, and plan on keeping my coins for life, so resale value is of little import. As long as the value is there, either one can be made to work (under the right circumstances, of course).
No
It's illegal here, too. BUT..... if you SELL it in Oregon and CHANGE registration, it can lose its known salvage title.
Actually, a few years ago it was an epidemic.
Main target was pickups with cabs or beds knocked off.
LOTS of fraud if you twist it enough.
Depends on how bad the damage is, how big the discount is and what coin it is (expensive ect)
I generally don't buy them, but I've made a few.
Here's the latest .92, I thought it would probably grade but was on the fence
Collector, occasional seller
I try my best to avoid problem coins. Although, many that are deemed cleaned can be fixed by a quick retoning over a couple of months in a 1950s or early 1960s envelope while hanging in a warm and humid Florida garage.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
No
I've heard of that before. Also, flood damaged cars from hurricanes are sold to unsuspecting buyers in other states. You really need to know how to inspect a car. I love working on my own cars and I've learned a lot over the last 10 years.
Yes. I do consider it a minimun of a full grade knockdown. Otherwise it does not bother me at all if the price is right. The hard truth is most coins out there have been "cleaned", its just that some were cleaned improperly causing damage to the coin. I see not difference in improper cleaning and post production damage such as nicks and gouges. Nowadays I am mostly concerned if the coin is genuine.
I bought a 1879-O $10 NCS (NOT NGC) as its very rare and high dollar. I just wanted to fill the hole. Truthfully I don’t even know what “NCS” is or if anything can be done; but it looks nice. I’d be thrilled for it to be in any holder with details if it included a grade.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/date-sets/hashtags-prefect-coin-grading-service-1879/album/7621
NCS was an NGC affiliate. They were located with NGC.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
While browsing my items in the registry i stumbled on these two I have. Sarcastically a cleaned more valuable than a straight grade?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I have one details coin, an 1815 over 14 CBH (I think it is, the tough one) that is a nice XF except for a small lightly rubbed spot under the eagles wing. Since I saved about $1500 buying this coin and the obverse is perfect, I'm happy with it. But that is the only details coin I own out of far too many!
Louis Armstrong
Never.
I never buy slabbed damaged coins.
When you buy a problem coin from someone, their problem becomes your problem.
Sure, I buy details coins at a discounted price especially if they are historically significant. Also have sold details coins at a discount sometimes severely. There are some important coins in details holders that have decent eye appeal.
Technical grading is one tier of a coins value. Some place it high enough to be a deal breaker... period.
I will, depending on the severity of the cleaning. If it's a light cleaning with no hairlines and if the luster is mostly there I'll buy 'em.