@LoveTypeCoins said:
I believe that either there is a buyer lined up with a “promise” or the coin will not be sold if an acceptable price is not reached.
How would that work? Wouldn't the buyer prefer to purchase directly rather than through an auction to avoid a buyer's premium?
Not that my opinion or guess matters as I won’t bid, but I’ll guess $7.5 million if there is no reserve or no high starting bid. It is an amazing coin, but I’ve always questioned the bidding strategy behind the last sale.
P.S. The Pogue 1854-S $5 sale and the failure of the Child’s 1804 PF68 dollar to meet reserve has taught us that truly rare coins are not excepted from this awful market.
@cameonut2011 said:
Not that my opinion or guess matters as I won’t bid, but I’ll guess $7.5 million if there is no reserve or no high starting bid. It is an amazing coin, but I’ve always questioned the bidding strategy behind the last sale.
@cameonut2011 said:
P.S. The Pogue 1854-S $5 sale and the failure of the Child’s 1804 PF68 dollar to meet reserve has taught us that truly rare coins are not excepted from this awful market.
One has to consider that such a unique coin may be in a timeless niche of its own?
If the 1933 Saint were to come up at auction again today it might also be in that category. Outside of the coin collector community it just doesn't seem the 1854-S $5 or Child's 1804 PF68 dollar could have had that universal draw and may explain their auction performance or lack thereof.
All that said, "The Most Expensive Coin in the World" is likely one that resides in the Smithsonian and has never been offered for sale - the 1849 Double Eagle pattern or its mysteriously missing sibling. All bets would be off for what it might go for if it were to be auctioned.
@cameonut2011 said:
Not that my opinion or guess matters as I won’t bid, but I’ll guess $7.5 million if there is no reserve or no high starting bid. It is an amazing coin, but I’ve always questioned the bidding strategy behind the last sale.
@cameonut2011 said:
P.S. The Pogue 1854-S $5 sale and the failure of the Child’s 1804 PF68 dollar to meet reserve has taught us that truly rare coins are not excepted from this awful market.
One has to consider that such a unique coin may be in a timeless niche of its own?
If the 1933 Saint were to come up at auction again today it might also be in that category. Outside of the coin collector community it just doesn't seem the 1854-S $5 or Child's 1804 PF68 dollar could have had that universal draw and may explain their auction performance or lack thereof.
All that said, "The Most Expensive Coin in the World" is likely one that resides in the Smithsonian and has never been offered for sale - the 1849 Double Eagle pattern or its mysteriously missing sibling. All bets would be off for what it might go for if it were to be auctioned.
Perhaps the missing 1849 Double Eagle pattern may surface at some time, it would likely would bring a significant price.
That being said, perhaps the most collected series are silver dollars. A quick calculation:
PCGSCoinFacts shows that best of the 4 known 1802 dated proof dollar is valued at $800,000. this is for a coin that was NOT minted in 1802 and was created decades later. CoinFacts also shows that the finest Mint State 1802 dollars are valued at $225,000. Accordingly, the 1802 Proof is estimated to be worth 3.56 times as much as a Gem Mint State 65 1802 dollar, which was actually struck in 1802.
Extrapolate that to the 1794 Dollars, all of which were struck in 1794: The two finest 1794 Mint State 66+ examples of the 1794 dollar are estimated to be valued $5,000,000. The Carter-Knoxville-Contursi-Cardinal-Morelan 1794 - the only known specimen with prooflike deep cameo surfaces and the only known specimen with a central silver plug to not only ensure the precise silver content and but also to ensure that the central details of both sides to be fully struck. Using the calculation above, using the finest mint state 1794 dollars valued at $5,000,000 times 3.56 equals $17,800,000. It seems to me there is room for the coin to exceed its 2010 auction level.
Yup.. the auction could be about to hammer at $8.5 million, and one of the bidders could stand up and say, "Fifteen million, seven hundred eighty-five thousand!"
😉
@Baley said:
Yup.. the auction could be about to hammer at $8.5 million, and one of the bidders could stand up and say, "Fifteen million, seven hundred eighty-five thousand!"
😉
Considering there's no shovel behind Miss Liberty's head, that would seal the deal!
@cameonut2011 said:
Not that my opinion or guess matters as I won’t bid, but I’ll guess $7.5 million if there is no reserve or no high starting bid. It is an amazing coin, but I’ve always questioned the bidding strategy behind the last sale.
@cameonut2011 said:
P.S. The Pogue 1854-S $5 sale and the failure of the Child’s 1804 PF68 dollar to meet reserve has taught us that truly rare coins are not excepted from this awful market.
One has to consider that such a unique coin may be in a timeless niche of its own?
If the 1933 Saint were to come up at auction again today it might also be in that category. Outside of the coin collector community it just doesn't seem the 1854-S $5 or Child's 1804 PF68 dollar could have had that universal draw and may explain their auction performance or lack thereof.
All that said, "The Most Expensive Coin in the World" is likely one that resides in the Smithsonian and has never been offered for sale - the 1849 Double Eagle pattern or its mysteriously missing sibling. All bets would be off for what it might go for if it were to be auctioned.
Perhaps the missing 1849 Double Eagle pattern may surface at some time, it would likely would bring a significant price.
That being said, perhaps the most collected series are silver dollars. A quick calculation:
PCGSCoinFacts shows that best of the 4 known 1802 dated proof dollar is valued at $800,000. this is for a coin that was NOT minted in 1802 and was created decades later. CoinFacts also shows that the finest Mint State 1802 dollars are valued at $225,000. Accordingly, the 1802 Proof is estimated to be worth 3.56 times as much as a Gem Mint State 65 1802 dollar, which was actually struck in 1802.
Extrapolate that to the 1794 Dollars, all of which were struck in 1794: The two finest 1794 Mint State 66+ examples of the 1794 dollar are estimated to be valued $5,000,000. The Carter-Knoxville-Contursi-Cardinal-Morelan 1794 - the only known specimen with prooflike deep cameo surfaces and the only known specimen with a central silver plug to not only ensure the precise silver content and but also to ensure that the central details of both sides to be fully struck. Using the calculation above, using the finest mint state 1794 dollars valued at $5,000,000 times 3.56 equals $17,800,000. It seems to me there is room for the coin to exceed its 2010 auction level.
I don't think using ratios of other values is useful unless there is no other auction data for people to use as a baseline. Assuming the use of ratios for other draped bust coinage compared to the novodels was usually accurate, I doubt it will hold at the very highest levels. The atmosphere becomes very thin very quickly with each increasing bidding increment. Also weren't the novodels post hoc creations? If so that is another reason for the ratio to be wrong as many collectors might not consider them legitimate unlike the specimen 1794 dollar which was struck as part of the normal issue.
@cameonut2011 said:
Not that my opinion or guess matters as I won’t bid, but I’ll guess $7.5 million if there is no reserve or no high starting bid. It is an amazing coin, but I’ve always questioned the bidding strategy behind the last sale.
@cameonut2011 said:
P.S. The Pogue 1854-S $5 sale and the failure of the Child’s 1804 PF68 dollar to meet reserve has taught us that truly rare coins are not excepted from this awful market.
One has to consider that such a unique coin may be in a timeless niche of its own?
If the 1933 Saint were to come up at auction again today it might also be in that category. Outside of the coin collector community it just doesn't seem the 1854-S $5 or Child's 1804 PF68 dollar could have had that universal draw and may explain their auction performance or lack thereof.
All that said, "The Most Expensive Coin in the World" is likely one that resides in the Smithsonian and has never been offered for sale - the 1849 Double Eagle pattern or its mysteriously missing sibling. All bets would be off for what it might go for if it were to be auctioned.
Perhaps the missing 1849 Double Eagle pattern may surface at some time, it would likely would bring a significant price.
That being said, perhaps the most collected series are silver dollars. A quick calculation:
PCGSCoinFacts shows that best of the 4 known 1802 dated proof dollar is valued at $800,000. this is for a coin that was NOT minted in 1802 and was created decades later. CoinFacts also shows that the finest Mint State 1802 dollars are valued at $225,000. Accordingly, the 1802 Proof is estimated to be worth 3.56 times as much as a Gem Mint State 65 1802 dollar, which was actually struck in 1802.
Extrapolate that to the 1794 Dollars, all of which were struck in 1794: The two finest 1794 Mint State 66+ examples of the 1794 dollar are estimated to be valued $5,000,000. The Carter-Knoxville-Contursi-Cardinal-Morelan 1794 - the only known specimen with prooflike deep cameo surfaces and the only known specimen with a central silver plug to not only ensure the precise silver content and but also to ensure that the central details of both sides to be fully struck. Using the calculation above, using the finest mint state 1794 dollars valued at $5,000,000 times 3.56 equals $17,800,000. It seems to me there is room for the coin to exceed its 2010 auction level.
I don't think using ratios of other values is useful unless there is no other auction data for people to use as a baseline. Assuming the use of ratios for other draped bust coinage compared to the novodels was usually accurate, I doubt it will hold at the very highest levels. The atmosphere becomes very thin very quickly with each increasing bidding increment. Also weren't the novodels post hoc creations? If so that is another reason for the ratio to be wrong as many collectors might not consider them legitimate unlike the specimen 1794 dollar which was struck as part of the normal issue.
The Specimen 1794 was NOT just part of the normal issue. It was struck in a far different manner, and that makes all of the difference.
Consider this - According to PCGS CoinFacts, there have been 29 1964 Proof Kennedy half dollars graded as PR70, and they are estimated to be worth $4,200, and the 2,335 graded PR69 are estimated at $125. Those are just the top end of what PCGS has graded, and think about how many more of those were graded by NGC. Compare those to the 1964 SMS Kennedy half dollars. PCGS has graded 15 of those - grading out with one lone 64, a cluster of 13 coins graded 67-68, with one lone 69. The FIVE coins that graded out at 68 are estimated to be worth $160,000, and the lone SMS 69 is estimated to be worth $200,000. Comparing the PR69 to the SMS69, the SMS is valued 1600 times the value of the PR69. That's the difference between a common regular proof and a rare specimen strike!
Even though the Pogue family will not be bidding, there are at least 2 multi-billionaires fighting against each other out there. Last year in a LegendAuction, there were some notable Mercury dimes, with two POP TOP coins. The sole PCGS 1931-S graded MS67+ FB CAC was estimated to top out at $25K. The sole PCGS 1938-S graded MS68+ FB CAC was estimated to top out at $12,500. What did they actually sell for?? The 1931-S sold for $270,250, and the 1938-S sold for $364,250.
With the cost of food, utilities and other items continuing to climb; plus trillions of newly created dollars being pumped into the economy by Uncle Sam it would not surprise me to see bidding ho up well over $10 million.
I know that Bruce stopped posting for awhile. Is he bummed out on coins and taking up golf instead? He was always pretty good about sharing his collection photos and insights.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Comments
It's only money.
I was closest last time it sold lol.
Since I know nothing about the current auction market conditions (or ever) I'll guess $9250000 with the juice.
A little OT, but at 17 sec the actor "using" the soldering iron has apparently not used one before.
Collector, occasional seller
How would that work? Wouldn't the buyer prefer to purchase directly rather than through an auction to avoid a buyer's premium?
Not that my opinion or guess matters as I won’t bid, but I’ll guess $7.5 million if there is no reserve or no high starting bid. It is an amazing coin, but I’ve always questioned the bidding strategy behind the last sale.
P.S. The Pogue 1854-S $5 sale and the failure of the Child’s 1804 PF68 dollar to meet reserve has taught us that truly rare coins are not excepted from this awful market.
One has to consider that such a unique coin may be in a timeless niche of its own?
If the 1933 Saint were to come up at auction again today it might also be in that category. Outside of the coin collector community it just doesn't seem the 1854-S $5 or Child's 1804 PF68 dollar could have had that universal draw and may explain their auction performance or lack thereof.
All that said, "The Most Expensive Coin in the World" is likely one that resides in the Smithsonian and has never been offered for sale - the 1849 Double Eagle pattern or its mysteriously missing sibling. All bets would be off for what it might go for if it were to be auctioned.
Perhaps the missing 1849 Double Eagle pattern may surface at some time, it would likely would bring a significant price.
That being said, perhaps the most collected series are silver dollars. A quick calculation:
PCGSCoinFacts shows that best of the 4 known 1802 dated proof dollar is valued at $800,000. this is for a coin that was NOT minted in 1802 and was created decades later. CoinFacts also shows that the finest Mint State 1802 dollars are valued at $225,000. Accordingly, the 1802 Proof is estimated to be worth 3.56 times as much as a Gem Mint State 65 1802 dollar, which was actually struck in 1802.
Extrapolate that to the 1794 Dollars, all of which were struck in 1794: The two finest 1794 Mint State 66+ examples of the 1794 dollar are estimated to be valued $5,000,000. The Carter-Knoxville-Contursi-Cardinal-Morelan 1794 - the only known specimen with prooflike deep cameo surfaces and the only known specimen with a central silver plug to not only ensure the precise silver content and but also to ensure that the central details of both sides to be fully struck. Using the calculation above, using the finest mint state 1794 dollars valued at $5,000,000 times 3.56 equals $17,800,000. It seems to me there is room for the coin to exceed its 2010 auction level.
Yup.. the auction could be about to hammer at $8.5 million, and one of the bidders could stand up and say, "Fifteen million, seven hundred eighty-five thousand!"
😉
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Considering there's no shovel behind Miss Liberty's head, that would seal the deal!
$20,000,000. It has been a good investment more than once. And, it is only money.
I don't think using ratios of other values is useful unless there is no other auction data for people to use as a baseline. Assuming the use of ratios for other draped bust coinage compared to the novodels was usually accurate, I doubt it will hold at the very highest levels. The atmosphere becomes very thin very quickly with each increasing bidding increment. Also weren't the novodels post hoc creations? If so that is another reason for the ratio to be wrong as many collectors might not consider them legitimate unlike the specimen 1794 dollar which was struck as part of the normal issue.
The Specimen 1794 was NOT just part of the normal issue. It was struck in a far different manner, and that makes all of the difference.
Consider this - According to PCGS CoinFacts, there have been 29 1964 Proof Kennedy half dollars graded as PR70, and they are estimated to be worth $4,200, and the 2,335 graded PR69 are estimated at $125. Those are just the top end of what PCGS has graded, and think about how many more of those were graded by NGC. Compare those to the 1964 SMS Kennedy half dollars. PCGS has graded 15 of those - grading out with one lone 64, a cluster of 13 coins graded 67-68, with one lone 69. The FIVE coins that graded out at 68 are estimated to be worth $160,000, and the lone SMS 69 is estimated to be worth $200,000. Comparing the PR69 to the SMS69, the SMS is valued 1600 times the value of the PR69. That's the difference between a common regular proof and a rare specimen strike!
Even though the Pogue family will not be bidding, there are at least 2 multi-billionaires fighting against each other out there. Last year in a LegendAuction, there were some notable Mercury dimes, with two POP TOP coins. The sole PCGS 1931-S graded MS67+ FB CAC was estimated to top out at $25K. The sole PCGS 1938-S graded MS68+ FB CAC was estimated to top out at $12,500. What did they actually sell for?? The 1931-S sold for $270,250, and the 1938-S sold for $364,250.
With the cost of food, utilities and other items continuing to climb; plus trillions of newly created dollars being pumped into the economy by Uncle Sam it would not surprise me to see bidding ho up well over $10 million.
Are there two very wealthy collectors who will be interested? I never saw it as a $10 million coin in the first place.
not in this economy I think the seller should wait then sell but that's their call. fwiw & jmo
Bidding is open, opening at $7M hammer
Latin American Collection
Here is the auction link. The 1794 is lot 11.
Many other great coins throughout the sale also.
https://legendauctions.hibid.com/catalog/233613/the-regency-auction-41/
.
.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Only two. Trust me.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Well one is far inferior to the other two. And the other two are birds of a different feather. We will know soon enough!
Does DLH like it? If not I say $8.5m tops.
$10m was a publicity stunt. We will see if it pays off.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I know that Bruce stopped posting for awhile. Is he bummed out on coins and taking up golf instead? He was always pretty good about sharing his collection photos and insights.
I knew it would happen.
I had COVID-19
It kicked my butt. I lost 22 lbs in 2 weeks. It’s not just the flu and it will kill you if it wants to
Rumor has it the Lebron James has a rep to aggressively bid on this one..............
I'm glad you survived and made a recovery. I hope illness didn't bring about the liquidation of your silver dollar collection.