Do tire kickers, in numismatics, ever tire ?
TwoSides2aCoin
Posts: 44,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
TwoSides2aCoin
Posts: 44,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
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No, but they must get sore feet from kicking all of those tires.
Please elaborate.
Collector, occasional seller
What's a tire kicker as it relates to coin collecting?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
One example : potential customer asks to view coin. Looks it over; then negotiates best price , then backs out and/or changes mind altogether. Usually this type rarely buys. They’re not the most pleasant to deal with, often.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
It's sort of analogous to a rock and roll groupie minus the benefits.
Agreed.
For anybody that owns a business they understand this customer malady of indecisiveness.
So annoying but you get better at reading them early and shutting it down early.
This type of behavior seems to be common with collectibles. I see it with vintage guitars a lot. I think it's built into the culture...negotiating down from the price marked is expected by both the buyer and the seller. But negotiation implies flexibility. Some buyers think that flexibility continues even after the deal is made. If the dealer set a fixed price and refused to negotiate, maybe that would change the buyer's expectations and behavior.
Worse is the eBay version: buy the coin, look at it in hand, return the coin.
I recall attempting to deal with type of "buyer" when I used to set up at club coin shows. After a few experiences with them I did my best to discourage them from coming by my table. They are an annoying waste of time.
I've often wondered what the proper thing to do is, when:
I ask to look at a coin, and see something I don't like. (A mark, color, strike weakness, whatever). Do I ask the price, or just thank him for his time. I know I don't want it....but it seems wrong to just walk away without any further interaction. Maybe I should kick the tire, just to be polite.
"This one's not for me, thanks."
If the dealer asks why, tell him.
I probably buy one out of a thousand coins I look at on average.
99.9% are safe from me bothering them.
My Saint Set
Someone should make a chatbot to handle tirekickers.
If you don't want to buy the coin, just hand it back to the dealer and say "Thank you." He doesn't need to know why you don't want it nor should he really care.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes?
That's my usual MO. But sometimes they will throw a price anyway, or ask if I want the price. Then throw in the apparent "love" for the tire kickers in this thread, and I figured maybe I'm cheating the dealer. Maybe I should kick for a little while, just for the social interaction sake. Maybe I need to whittle him down to his lowest possible price, then drop the "No Thank You" on him. (Seems cruel and time consuming to me).
Many of us started as tire kickers I imagine at one point. Those that lack initial knowledge and confidence can quickly mature into active and constructive relationships. Others remain pains in the ass and never develop. Too broad of a brush in my opinion.
Latin American Collection
Interesting, people are told to look at hundreds or even thousands of coins to train their eye and learn what to look for. Then those that do just that are bashed by dealers because they don't buy.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
The OP is talking about people who negotiate a price and then back out of the deal, not those who are just looking...
"One example : potential customer asks to view coin. Looks it over; then negotiates best price , then backs out and/or changes mind altogether."
If I don’t like a coin I thank the dealer and give it back to him. I’ve had a few dealers tell me, “what’s the matter, my coin isn’t good enough for you?”.
If I like the coin I’ll ask the dealer what their price is. If the dealers asking price is way too high in my opinion, I’ll thank the dealer and walk away.
When I could attend shows, there were few coins that I would ask to look at, judged most from what I could see on display. Of the one's I did look at up close, often condition or price would cause me to decline. I would not haggle, if I thought the price was high, I would ask once for a better price. If not to my liking, I would pass. Cheers, RickO
The worst is someone who makes an offer and then after I tell them I will accept it answer that they will think about it. GRRRRRR.......
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
I get my fair share in the shop. There are some that you gotta work to make that sale resulting in $6 profit
My YouTube Channel
I kind of think tire kickers are analogous to not being too interested in collecting per say - more the only manner of a social outlet of an otherwise socially inept and unkempt individual - oft see those types at coin shows. If you watch tire kickers at shows they are the curmudgeons going around poking through dealer stock and hmming and hawing and bickering about prices. They also allow them on the internet - where they get on eBay and puck things up.
I used to have a guy always made stupid low offers. Usually 25-50% less than I paid. One time he made an offer that would work for me. I said OK. The look on his face was priceless. Needless to say he didn't buy the coin. The blessing was he quit coming around!
I could definitely understand being irritated after an in person agreed-upon price is suddenly a "I'll think about it"
Collector, occasional seller
Worse was the habit by some dealers wanting to take coins "on memo". Not only did they want to take the coin with no risk to themselves, but shop it around with their sweet time and yours being taxed for potential profits.
I can understand reasonable inquiries and even returns but not the dumb rhetoric we sometimes see with "interested" buyers hen-pecking sellers and trying to wear them down with "last offer" glib messages. I don't need to take low offers especially when many coins in this business are break even at best.
That's not really the flip side. What would be the flip side of a buyer backing out of a deal after agreeing on a price is if an seller backed out of a deal after an auction ended.
Tirekickers are either looking for a steal of a day or are extremely cheap people and of course when they are both, they are the 'ultimate tirekicker'.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
I'm not a dealer but my life's experience tells me that this is certainly not limited to numismatics. In any business where the price is negotiable you will get many of the described "tire kickers". Lots of reasons:indecisiveness, price discovery, lack of understanding on both client and dealer, etc, etc...
It just goes with the territory. Imagine how long you would have to wait at Chipotle if you could negotiate the price of your burrito.
The absolute WORST tire kickers are the ones that hover over a dealer's case and endlessly prattle on with the dealer when YOU are waiting to actually buy.
The dealer should be able to artfully cut this off/delay when others are waiting. It's a skill and should be in every entrepreneur's toolbox.
Not until they expire.
even when no others are waiting!!!
obviously the dealer in this case has displayed that there is a cushion for him. the buyer is simply trying to take advantage of it.
However, once both shake hands, that should be it. Until then, everything is open.
And, for whatever it is worth, the exchange of $$$ for goods is the utmost done deal.
I'm going to have to disagree with your splitting of hairs here. If the seller represents the coin as for sale to the highest bidder, ending the auction early feels like a breach of contract to those who have placed bids.
I certainly don't expect everybody to agree with me, but ending an auction early on eBay doesn't violate any of their policies- in fact, they explain to you how to do it. I'm not seeing a breach of contract here.
I guess I didn't realize that Joe Coin Dealer typically has a written policy that once I verbally agree to a price, I am obligated to actually pay. We're essentially talking about standards and ethics here.
EDIT: There are legitimate reasons that an auction may need to be ended early, and that is why there must be a mechanism to do so. Discovering that a coin is counterfeit after listing it would be one example.
I'm talking about eBay here, not sure what Joe Coin Dealer's policies have to do with it?
It's called an analogy. You mentioned that eBay doesn't have a written policy against ending auctions early, and I'm pointing out that Joe Dealer doesn't have a written policy stating that once I verbally agree to a price I have to pay. In neither case does the lack of a written policy justify the annoying behavior.
I'm just glad they are not coin-kickers!
Yeah, I wouldn't consider someone who just looks to be a "tire kicker". Tire kicker's take up much more of your time and take it almost to the culmination of the deal. Sometimes they even ask you to set it aside while they walk the bourse, then they never come back.
People who just look without buying are called Looky Loos. There are in a different category.
For some dealers - not me, by the way - they are just tired of giving up their time for someone else's education without any pay-off. Other dealers like to talk and talk and talk and don't mind the Looky Loos or the Tire Kickers.
Not a very good one, IMO. When you join eBay, there is a written policy you agree to abide by. When you go to Joe Coin Dealer's store, there's not.
worse because the seller eats the postage, return postage and 2.9% paypal fee.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
When I go into a shop , it is always with intentions to make a purchase or sell. When perusing at a show, I look to buy and sell. The art is coming to terms and consummating a deal. Being a selective buyer is imperative. Most of us who collect will kick shins before tires.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Yes, they may take your reply as an affront to their merchandise or take it personal with a defensive stance. As is said "Silence is golden".
Sometimes they even ask you to set it aside while they walk the bourse, then they never come back.
Why would any dealer set aside a coin so a potential customer can search the bourse for a better deal? I could see doing this for a good customer that bought a lot from the dealer in the past but I'd put a time limit on it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Calls later, lies says got offered the deal they asked for, gets called out by an employee and next thing you know they're screaming for their manager and it's 4am and you're just just happy to make some money with the night shift running just fine. But not now, because now it's 4am, and this POS ends up needing to be trespassed. Leaves you a 1 star review on Yelp and trashes you on social media for 3 weeks.
After a few weeks of radio silence and thinking you're free, he calls asking if you're running any discounts and complains about the way he was treated, wondering how far you extend your return policy past the first 90 days.
I learned a great name for a tire kicker years ago. Me and several dealers I know call them a WAT abbreviation for Waste a Time.