Lessons from collecting
Gazes
Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
With a bit more time on my hands i have thought about lessons i have learned over the years. One is that periodically selling has been educational. In a way it grades you on your buying decision in the first place, shows what dealers step up to the plate, what type of coins are in demand, auction vs dealer, etc.
However, the lesson that was the least obvious but that i have learned is i wish early on i had always held back on selling one or two of coins that are "irreplaceable". If im selling 10 coins---keep the one that it would be the most difficult to replace. I do that now but if i had done that from the beginning I would be far more pleased. I know i will collect my whole life so it makes sense to hold those special coins back and not sell "everything".
Comments
Good technique!! Sell the duplicates.
My biggest life lesson in coins is from learning to sell. You really have to get a thicker skin, stick to your guns, learn when you’re being played, etc. You have to learn to negotiate even if you don’t like to. But that skill translates into other areas and you get more confident in evaluating deals and offers.
Some people come by it naturally but others have to acquire the skill. For me, I had to acquire it.
Fortunately, I have not had to learn that lesson....since I do not sell coins....'That' lesson being the one about keeping special coins....Because, to me, ALL my coins are special...ergo, I still have them.
Cheers, RickO
I don’t sell anymore but, when I did, I did all right but here are some lessons:
Don’t be afraid to walk from an obnoxious offer. Live to buy/sell another day.
Don’t get comfortable with just one dealer.....go to shows and shop around.
Hold for the right offer, if you have to.
Recognize which coins will do better at auction and which will do better by selling to a dealer.
Don’t sell your upgrade candidates, especially, if there’s a wide spread. Learn to resubmit yourself. Why leave money on the table?
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Buy American Eagles only. Except platinum when it peaked. They always resale well.
Or, diversify with eclectic hard to part with stuff that falls well below your expectations on eBay.
And give love to your local dealer. Build thru integrity.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
There is not much that can be added to Sonoradesertrat's post above.
1) An example of liquidity when it comes to an expensive coin for the same amount of money is buying a coin with more of a collector base. Ie., you will have an easier time selling a better date Morgan Dollar than a better date Liberty Nickel.
2) There's always a spread: the seller is making money when he sells a coin to you, and he is making money when you sell the coin to him, unless you can deal directly with another collector. Unless your coin is truly exceptional - are very few coins are - expect to get toward the lower end of recent auction price hammer for your coin, and that's if it's problem free for the grade.
3) 80-90% of the time, I walk from a prospective purchase.
4) If you are a collector, spend what you can afford. It's a hobby. It's a lot like photography, most very good photographers don't make any money with their photos. You're probably not going to make any money with your coins.
5) Learn how to grade, find a mentor if you can, and always have a second set of eyes look at a prospective purchase.
You'll usually, but not always, not buy a bad coin this way.
6) Grading is a fluid concept, which is subject to change. Be aware of grading standards - past and present - relating to coin series that interest you. Coins in older holders often look different than currently graded coins in the same holders (ie., look at a 1st Generation RB Large Cent and compare it to one graded more recently).
7) Images, even when the imager has the best intentions, sometimes do not show everything you need to know when evaluating a coin purchase. I never have bought from an image, nor will I ever do so, for this reason. The comment above re grading, stickers, plastic, etc., is spot on.
8) I suggest buying a coin which is solid for the particular grade. If it's low end for the grade, you're probably buried in it. If it's an upgrade candidate, you will pay a premium that you probably won't get back, because very few collectors upgrade coins on a consistent basis where there's a large value increment between the current grade and the next grade up.
9) If it looks too good to be true, you're probably overlooking something.
Occasionally, but rarely, you'll get lucky. I found an incredibly toned Liberty Nickel in MS 66 for which I did not have to pay a premium, because there are so few nicely toned Liberty Nickels, and this series has a small collector base.
Another time at a show, I found a 24 S Nickel in a 2*2 in XF priced as a 24 P, and discretely told the owner of the coin about his error.
10) The niche market comment above is also spot on. In that vein, know who are considered the "go-to" people in the series you collect. You have a better chance of finding the nicest coins you are looking for, and will get the best prices for your coins when you sell them.
11) Due to the fluid nature of grading standards, if you have owned a coin for 10 years plus and wish to sell it, you might consider sending in for either a potential upgrade or an in holder review. I have had enough success in this for it to be worthwhile, though that said, I think results have been inconsistent.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
@Sonorandesertrat and @Elcontador have given a boat-load of great advice here. This is the sort of stuff that makes this forum such a wonderful place. Learn, learn, learn! from those who have gained this knowledge, in many cases, the hard way.
I would also recommend the 10 commandments of coin collecting advocated by Mark Feld, @mfeld. Later, when I’m on a desktop, I’ll try to share a link (if I can still find one).
To all of this, I would just add advice to never buy coins on credit, never buy coins if you are carrying consumer debt, and never buy coins if your primary retirement nest egg isn’t where it should be to allow you to retire on your terms with dignity. It’s a hobby and shouldn't be pursued to your financial detriment.
Totally agree that periodically selling is very educational. Last year I sold a significant chunk of my collection to partially pay for a basement remodel. I sold coins through several various channels: Great Collections auction, Heritage auction, consignments to specialist dealers, outright sales to specialist dealers, BST right here on the forum, directly to other collectors through PM's to people I thought might be interested, and the 2019 EAC auction.
The lesson for me in doing so was the importance of picking the right venue to sell each coin. Part of what I sold was a small group of colonials. Several were sold via Heritage and several were sold in the 2019 EAC auction. I lost money on every single one sold at Heritage and made money on every single one sold through the EAC auction. I'll never know for sure of course, but in hindsight I wish I'd sold them all through the EAC sale and am relatively certain I would have made money (or at least broken even) on the pieces I sold through Heritage. For those coins, the EAC sale was the absolute right venue for selling, not Heritage (though that's certainly not the case for all coins).
Just something to think about...when you decide to sell, where/how you sell matters.
Update.
I didn't remember correctly. Mark has 20 recommendations, not 10.
I found this copy on Heritage's site:
https://blog.ha.com/2014/02/mark-felds-coin-collecting-tips/
There is a lot of excellent advice in this thread.
I'll add what I think is corollary to what they have said: Never pay up no matter the hype for a coin unless it is truly special. I define "special" as irreplaceable or unlikely to be seen for another decade or longer. These are the items that are most likely to hold value. For 95+% of the U.S. market, the coins are common and there will always be another opportunity to buy another one and perhaps even a nicer example.
If you like it and it's just beyond your budget, it might actually be worth it.
My biggest regrets are not purchasing things I had an opportunity to because I thought it was a bit beyond my budget. I talked myself out of buying them when I could have just bought them!
More random comments:
11. The internet is an extraordinary resource. One use is to snip images of altered coins, and maintain a folder of these, with comments. Then review the folder every couple of years. Do the same for counterfeit coins, or certain types of coins that interest you.
12. Grading should not be about just what the obverse and reverse of a coin look like. Pay attention to the edge (if possible) and also to the rims. On one occasion, I was in the suite of a well-known dealer, looking at slabbed large cents. They were graded NGC 65 or 66, and all had rough rims. When the dealer realized that I wasn't impressed, he acknowledged the problems with the coins.
13. No grading method is completely objective. Look at as many coins in hand as possible, on a routine basis, and decide what is acceptable to you.
14. Colorful toning. Look at lots of coins to get a feel for what is easily found and what appropriate prices might be. My own view is that paying up for toning should be an all or nothing deal. I would not spend $400 for a generic MS65 Morgan with OK toning, but would look at a pricey one that caused me to stare at it. Also remember that wild toning itself, at some level, will overwhelm the value of an untoned coin in the same basal grade (i.e., 90% of the price could easily be due to the color(s) alone).
15. Grades of coins struck in relatively primitive circumstances (e.g., colonials, pioneer coins) can be all over the place. Many types of early copper coins, in particular, don't tend to have smooth surfaces and have been worked on at one point or another. Don't presume that a straight grade for one of these means the coin has original surfaces.
16. When thinking about starting something new (e.g., collecting a new series of coins), ask yourself some questions: (a) Can you realistically afford this? (b) Is what you think you can afford available in grade(s) that you can live with? (c) What is the availability of the coins, on average? (e) If the series is long, is there a way to dip your toes in the water to see if you really want to do this? For example, by assembling a sensible partial set? (f) Are the coins popular? This will matter when you try to sell them.
17. I would not pay a premium for minor errors (e.g., a coin struck off-center by a few percent).
18. Most collectors of coins who focus on varieties of post-Civil War coins prefer to buy them as unattributed coins. Don't expect an easy time when selling Morgans by VAM variety, for example. Think twice before paying someone else to do the attribution work for you.
19. Quality always trumps quantity when forming any type of collection.
20. Higher grade does not always mean greater eye appeal. I have seen plenty of unattractive coins in gem BU grades.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Selling is an important part of building a collection.
If you never sell a coin, your collection is not as good as it could be. Think about that for a minute. Has your taste, knowledge, or eye not improved since the days of buying your first few coins? I hope so. Sell an early piece and get a better one....
Do that a few times and your will have more fun “playing with your coins”.
Your set will be more admired by others too.
Do not sell the coins that you think are truly exceptional unless you need the money for an organ transplant or the equivalent.
I could not agree more about lessons learned by occasionally selling. It can be a real eye opener, for sure. Some might even call it the ‘school of hard knocks’!
I occasionally upgrade dates in my sets, and the knowledge learned from selling really helps me fine tune both my grading skills and my pricing ability. I also learn much about rarity and demand, as least in the series I focus on.
Dave
I don't blame you. It is much, much harder to sell coins than to buy them. You avoid seeing or maybe even thinking about the "difficult" side of the hobby. That apparently provides enough comfort to overcome any uneasiness that could have been caused by certain information.
Good for you! For you coin collecting is a pure hobby, without any investment considerations.
Biggest Lesson:
Excellent information in this thread by Sonorandesertrat, Elcontador, and others. I would add that you should look at as many coins in person as possible, especially those in your specialty area, and especially slabbed "problem" coins. This can be done by going to big shows and looking at as many auction lots as possible. This will help immensely in sharpening your grading ability and your ability to spot problem coins--whizzing, recolored coins, spot removal etc. TomT.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
When my youngest son was into BB cards they were a thing, even when relatively common. As a lesson I sent him around the floor of a card show with a couple dozen 1950's $30-$40 (our purchase price) cards that he wanted to replace. He couldn't get any offer at all, and this was when cards were hot. A coin dealer friend of mine was able to unload them. The lesson was worse than I expected, but he learned a lot that day, as did I. I wasn't surprised when the card market collapsed, which it would have done anyway, but it was hastened by dealers who were unwilling to support the market that they created.
And yes I'm aware that rare and conditionally rare cards are still prized by collectors, something of a parallel to our hobby, sadly.
"I wasn't surprised when the card market collapsed, which it would have done anyway, but it was hastened by dealers who were unwilling to support the market that they created."
This is very much on target, something that I have repeatedly seen from coin dealers. There are dealers, some well known, who are very good at selling (e.g., 'this is so nice that I am strongly tempted to keep it for my own collection....'), but won't make a reasonable offer to get the coin back for resale to others (even when the market price has not declined).
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]