Yes, as long as both of the folks that are using stickers to show that a coin meets a certain stickering requirement and therefore think that said coin deserves to be stuck with a sticker then there can be two stickers.
my 1877 Has both CAC and PS. My 56 Flyer Has PS , have never sent into CAC as of yet, even though I have owned it now over 8 years. I was always under the impression that RICK's PS carries more weight to the indian head cent collectors, therefore never bothered to submit it to CAC. I see somebody else thinking the same. I will eventually submit it to CAC , and am pretty confident it will get the sticker as well.
Dave99b , I saw that 1856 Flyer in Pf 65 in the upcoming catskills collection at GC, I am with you looks to be a very lovely coin. My only thing is I currently have a Pf-61 S-3 (probably a 62 today) that I had rick submit to PCGS years ago to get the S-3 placed on the label (since they quit designating any Ms) years ago. And would hate to sell an S-3 for and S-9.
I think one day I will take a day or two and drive up to CAC and submit this coin, and a couple of others that are well into 5 figures that I have never tried yet. It makes me nervous about sending them thru the mail especially with everything going on currently, package loss, unpaid claims and stuff, Just read yesterday about the forum member losing 7500 worth of silver.
This photo was taken by Rick Snow before the CAC sticker was automatically reapplied after it got the “+” after being sent back to PCGS for Reconsideration. It now has both stickers, but since my camera skills are not good, I use this photo.
The Flying Eagle Cent was originally graded by PCGS as MS66, and then submitted by the prior owner to CAC, and he/she successfully got that sticker. I then bought it in a Heritage auction, and I had to pay a strong price due to its eye appeal. Once in my hands, I then submitted it to Rick Snow, and he agreed it merited his coveted Eagle Eye Photo Seal, and he applied that sticker. I then sent it back to PCGS using "Reconsideration" (they don't remove it from the existing holder unless it upgrades). Obviously, they now saw both a CAC AND Eagle Eye Photo Seal (having these may NOT have made a difference, since in theory they look only at the coin in the holder). Regardless, they agreed the original grade was too strict, so they then removed it from the MS66 holder to give it a new label at MS66+. I then resubmitted it as an MS66+ to both CAC and Rick Snow to get those labels AUTOMATICALLY reapplied, since neither recognizes “+” grades. The "Reconsideration" method retains the SAME cert number on an upgrade, and the upgrade was only a "+", NOT to the next whole grade number! The CAC cost to reapply a sticker is only $3, and Rick Snow does not charge a fee to reapply his sticker.
Take a look at the price differential between the 66 and 66+. It’s shocking!
I never buy a coin anticipating an upgrade. If some of my coins upgrade, it’s just a real nice bonus. No disappointment when coins fail getting upgraded.
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
The Flying Eagle Cent was originally graded by PCGS as MS66, and then submitted by the prior owner to CAC, and he/she successfully got that sticker. I then bought it in a Heritage auction, and I had to pay a strong price due to its eye appeal. Once in my hands, I then submitted it to Rick Snow, and he agreed it merited his coveted Eagle Eye Photo Seal, and he applied that sticker. I then sent it back to PCGS using "Reconsideration" (they don't remove it from the existing holder unless it upgrades). Obviously, they now saw both a CAC AND Eagle Eye Photo Seal (having these may NOT have made a difference, since in theory they look only at the coin in the holder). Regardless, they agreed the original grade was too strict, so they then removed it from the MS66 holder to give it a new label at MS66+. I then resubmitted it as an MS66+ to both CAC and Rick Snow to get those labels AUTOMATICALLY reapplied, since neither recognizes “+” grades. The "Reconsideration" method retains the SAME cert number on an upgrade, and the upgrade was only a "+", NOT to the next whole grade number! The CAC cost to reapply a sticker is only $3, and Rick Snow does not charge a fee to reapply his sticker.
Take a look at the price differential between the 66 and 66+. It’s shocking!
I never buy a coin anticipating an upgrade. If some of my coins upgrade, it’s just a real nice bonus. No disappointment when coins fail getting upgraded.
Congrats on an awesome journey and an awesome result!
I don't really have time for that right now, but hope to one day
Yes. I have one. I think it is an 1864 copper-nickel Cent.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Nice that Rick doesn’t charge for a replacement sticker. I just lost his sticker in doing an attribution done recently so I guess I will be sending that to him with some others
Take a look at the price differential between the 66 and 66+. It’s shocking!
There's a "point of diminishing returns" where a tiny difference in quality results in a huge difference in price. I try to buy a coin at the highest grade before the big jump in price at the next higher grade.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
There's a "point of diminishing returns" where a tiny difference in quality results in a huge difference in price. I try to buy a coin at the highest grade before the big jump in price at the next higher grade.
I fully agree, and that's what I do! That's why I bought this as a 66 with just a CAC. Although I paid a strong price for the 66 due to the great eye appeal, I did not buy it with the expectation that it would upgrade to a 66+. Like you, I'm not one of the people with very deep pockets that would/can buy this as a 66+ with a CAC and a Photo Seal
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@PerryHall said:
There's a "point of diminishing returns" where a tiny difference in quality results in a huge difference in price. I try to buy a coin at the highest grade before the big jump in price at the next higher grade.
For decades, that is something that Dave Bowers has advocated doing too.
Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
@PerryHall said:
There's a "point of diminishing returns" where a tiny difference in quality results in a huge difference in price. I try to buy a coin at the highest grade before the big jump in price at the next higher grade.
For decades, that is something that Dave Bowers has advocated doing too.
I've also have been advocating this for decades. It's just common sense to buy value. Buying a slightly better coin for double the money never made any sense to me. Chasing the highest grade at any cost is a direct result of the competition on the Coin Registry.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Have a PF63 IHC with the PS that is beautifully toned. Sent it to CAC thinking I might get a gold sticker. Didn't pass. CAC may not trust some toning that Rick Snow likes? Still love the coin and still think it should grade higher, but too common to mess with further.
@oldabeintx said:
Have a PF63 IHC with the PS that is beautifully toned. Sent it to CAC thinking I might get a gold sticker. Didn't pass. CAC may not trust some toning that Rick Snow likes? Still love the coin and still think it should grade higher, but too common to mess with further.
My guess is that the coin to which you're referring was blue toned. If you do a search, there are multiple threads regarding this topic. There are a lot of blue AT Indian and Lincoln cents out there. Some are NT but it's extremely hard to tell the difference. Given what I've seen, Rick is more likely to accept certain ones as NT than JA (CAC). I highly respect them both.
@oldabeintx said:
Have a PF63 IHC with the PS that is beautifully toned. Sent it to CAC thinking I might get a gold sticker. Didn't pass. CAC may not trust some toning that Rick Snow likes? Still love the coin and still think it should grade higher, but too common to mess with further.
My guess is that the coin to which you're referring was blue toned. If you do a search, there are multiple threads regarding this topic. There are a lot of blue AT Indian and Lincoln cents out there. Some are NT but it's extremely hard to tell the difference. Given what I've seen, Rick is more likely to accept certain ones as NT than JA (CAC). I highly respect them both.
It was, and I have followed the "blue" threads, but didn't pick up on what may be a more conservative CAC position. Thanks for the response.
The position of the stickers seems odd to me. The eagle should always be on the right facing the text and endorsed grade as opposed to facing left with the eagle/Rick metaphorically turning his back on the piece and the label grade. Since many series specialists opine (and Rick even posting an article with pictorial examples/evidence suggesting) that CAC is more liberal in grading FE and IHC it would seem more natural that the green bean would be to the left of the > @OldIndianNutKase said:
I bought this one from rick for (way) over the market money........
But after I searched my files........
But Rick does not put his Eagle Eye Seal on all of the coins he sells.
@oldabeintx said:
Have a PF63 IHC with the PS that is beautifully toned. Sent it to CAC thinking I might get a gold sticker. Didn't pass. CAC may not trust some toning that Rick Snow likes? Still love the coin and still think it should grade higher, but too common to mess with further.
My guess is that the coin to which you're referring was blue toned. If you do a search, there are multiple threads regarding this topic. There are a lot of blue AT Indian and Lincoln cents out there. Some are NT but it's extremely hard to tell the difference. Given what I've seen, Rick is more likely to accept certain ones as NT than JA (CAC). I highly respect them both.
Early on JA would sticker them too but CAC certainly has tightened on this one narrow issue.
@oldabeintx said:
Have a PF63 IHC with the PS that is beautifully toned. Sent it to CAC thinking I might get a gold sticker. Didn't pass. CAC may not trust some toning that Rick Snow likes? Still love the coin and still think it should grade higher, but too common to mess with further.
My guess is that the coin to which you're referring was blue toned. If you do a search, there are multiple threads regarding this topic. There are a lot of blue AT Indian and Lincoln cents out there. Some are NT but it's extremely hard to tell the difference. Given what I've seen, Rick is more likely to accept certain ones as NT than JA (CAC). I highly respect them both.
Rick Snow traced the provenance of iridescently toned IHC proofs back to a few dealers who bought them in bulk in the late 19th Century from the Mint and stored them in paper flips. These coins were discovered to have toned in those paper flips in the era 1930-1940 and were sold at this early time as iridescent toned proofs, to a very significant discount to RD proofs. There is no question that they are NT due to their storage in paper flips and possibly due to other environmental conditions such as ammonia water vapor which was used as a common cleaning agent at that time in history.
I have found that NT PR IHC's look BR in the holder, but will show their underlying color only when tilted appropriately to the light. AT coins have more of a "painted" on look and look toned at all angles to the light.
You can readily see from the 1885 that I posted, the slab view shows just BR color, but the TrueView captures the fabulous underlying toning.
Pretty soon you’re going to need a slab extender for all of the stickers out there. One coin Will cost more to slab and stickerize than a gold eagle soon.
@oldabeintx said:
Have a PF63 IHC with the PS that is beautifully toned. Sent it to CAC thinking I might get a gold sticker. Didn't pass. CAC may not trust some toning that Rick Snow likes? Still love the coin and still think it should grade higher, but too common to mess with further.
My guess is that the coin to which you're referring was blue toned. If you do a search, there are multiple threads regarding this topic. There are a lot of blue AT Indian and Lincoln cents out there. Some are NT but it's extremely hard to tell the difference. Given what I've seen, Rick is more likely to accept certain ones as NT than JA (CAC). I highly respect them both.
Rick Snow traced the provenance of iridescently toned IHC proofs back to a few dealers who bought them in bulk in the late 19th Century from the Mint and stored them in paper flips. These coins were discovered to have toned in those paper flips in the era 1930-1940 and were sold at this early time as iridescent toned proofs, to a very significant discount to RD proofs. There is no question that they are NT due to their storage in paper flips and possibly due to other environmental conditions such as ammonia water vapor which was used as a common cleaning agent at that time in history.
I have found that NT PR IHC's look BR in the holder, but will show their underlying color only when tilted appropriately to the light. AT coins have more of a "painted" on look and look toned at all angles to the light.
You can readily see from the 1885 that I posted, the slab view shows just BR color, but the TrueView captures the fabulous underlying toning.
OINK
You keep posting this as if this has been indisputably proven and is fact. I'm certainly open to the likelihood that some of the blue pieces are in fact NT. It does not follow logically that all blue copper are therefore natural. Second, your ammonia theory seems implausible to me. The ammonia concentration would need to exceed certain thresholds and be constant over time at levels that I do not believe are consistent with normal ambient conditions or life to be frank.
Not that I take everything she says as gospel, but didn't Laura indicate that there was a well known IHC dealer selling blue copper (not Rick) that was a coin doctor and that there was purportedly evidence to back it up?
@oldabeintx said:
Have a PF63 IHC with the PS that is beautifully toned. Sent it to CAC thinking I might get a gold sticker. Didn't pass. CAC may not trust some toning that Rick Snow likes? Still love the coin and still think it should grade higher, but too common to mess with further.
My guess is that the coin to which you're referring was blue toned. If you do a search, there are multiple threads regarding this topic. There are a lot of blue AT Indian and Lincoln cents out there. Some are NT but it's extremely hard to tell the difference. Given what I've seen, Rick is more likely to accept certain ones as NT than JA (CAC). I highly respect them both.
Rick Snow traced the provenance of iridescently toned IHC proofs back to a few dealers who bought them in bulk in the late 19th Century from the Mint and stored them in paper flips. These coins were discovered to have toned in those paper flips in the era 1930-1940 and were sold at this early time as iridescent toned proofs, to a very significant discount to RD proofs. There is no question that they are NT due to their storage in paper flips and possibly due to other environmental conditions such as ammonia water vapor which was used as a common cleaning agent at that time in history.
I have found that NT PR IHC's look BR in the holder, but will show their underlying color only when tilted appropriately to the light. AT coins have more of a "painted" on look and look toned at all angles to the light.
You can readily see from the 1885 that I posted, the slab view shows just BR color, but the TrueView captures the fabulous underlying toning.
OINK
You keep posting this as if this has been indisputably proven and is fact. I'm certainly open to the likelihood that some of the blue pieces are in fact NT. It does not follow logically that all blue copper are therefore natural. Second, your ammonia theory seems implausible to me. The ammonia concentration would need to exceed certain thresholds and be constant over time at levels that I do not believe are consistent with normal ambient conditions or life to be frank.
Excuse me cameonut2011, but Rick Snow's investigation into the history of toned IHC PR coins does have evidence in fact. Unfortunately, these coins were discovered and subsequently sold long before TPG's and/or color photography of coin auctions. Not ALL of the coins toned "blue", in fact many that have blue tones have red tones as well. You cannot discount the authenticity of coins that are over 100 years old that have blue or other toning without questioning coins of the same era that are originally Red.
There are certain dates of IHC's that are quite rare with nice or even blue toning such as 1871 and 1890, and most all dates prior to 1870. In PR66 BN condition these coins have a market value of near $10,000. If coin doctors were able to produce examples of these coins the pop of those dates would increase. But the pop of those dates has been relatively stable for over 15 or more years.
FYI, I have exposed pure copper to NH3 and the resultant is a turquoise blue tarnish in <24 hours time. I only suggest that ammonia used as a cleaning agent, as my mother used to use, will infuse the air with an ammonia smell. For many years before the advent of Mr. Clean et al ammonia was the go to cleaning agent pre 1950.
I never alleged that all blue copper is NT. I only suggested that if it is blue regardless of light source that it may be AT.
Just received this coin in the mail yesterday. Does my coin qualify for any stickers? I'm not too keen on the knowledge and meaning behind these stickers. Lol Thanks
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
@cameonut2011 said:
Not that I take everything she says as gospel, but didn't Laura indicate that there was a well known IHC dealer selling blue copper (not Rick) that was a coin doctor and that there was purportedly evidence to back it up?
If I recall that thread correctly, Laura declined to sell through Legend Auctions many of the coins by a well known collector of toned IHC's as her "expert" thought them to be questionable color. I always assumed her "expert" to be JA, with whom she has a business relationship. I would love to hear her evidence on PM of course.
@oldabeintx said:
Have a PF63 IHC with the PS that is beautifully toned. Sent it to CAC thinking I might get a gold sticker. Didn't pass. CAC may not trust some toning that Rick Snow likes? Still love the coin and still think it should grade higher, but too common to mess with further.
My guess is that the coin to which you're referring was blue toned. If you do a search, there are multiple threads regarding this topic. There are a lot of blue AT Indian and Lincoln cents out there. Some are NT but it's extremely hard to tell the difference. Given what I've seen, Rick is more likely to accept certain ones as NT than JA (CAC). I highly respect them both.
Rick Snow traced the provenance of iridescently toned IHC proofs back to a few dealers who bought them in bulk in the late 19th Century from the Mint and stored them in paper flips. These coins were discovered to have toned in those paper flips in the era 1930-1940 and were sold at this early time as iridescent toned proofs, to a very significant discount to RD proofs. There is no question that they are NT due to their storage in paper flips and possibly due to other environmental conditions such as ammonia water vapor which was used as a common cleaning agent at that time in history.
I have found that NT PR IHC's look BR in the holder, but will show their underlying color only when tilted appropriately to the light. AT coins have more of a "painted" on look and look toned at all angles to the light.
You can readily see from the 1885 that I posted, the slab view shows just BR color, but the TrueView captures the fabulous underlying toning.
OINK
You keep posting this as if this has been indisputably proven and is fact. I'm certainly open to the likelihood that some of the blue pieces are in fact NT. It does not follow logically that all blue copper are therefore natural. Second, your ammonia theory seems implausible to me. The ammonia concentration would need to exceed certain thresholds and be constant over time at levels that I do not believe are consistent with normal ambient conditions or life to be frank.
Excuse me cameonut2011, but Rick Snow's investigation into the history of toned IHC PR coins does have evidence in fact. Unfortunately, these coins were discovered and subsequently sold long before TPG's and/or color photography of coin auctions. Not ALL of the coins toned "blue", in fact many that have blue tones have red tones as well. You cannot discount the authenticity of coins that are over 100 years old that have blue or other toning without questioning coins of the same era that are originally Red.
There are certain dates of IHC's that are quite rare with nice or even blue toning such as 1871 and 1890, and most all dates prior to 1870. In PR66 BN condition these coins have a market value of near $10,000. If coin doctors were able to produce examples of these coins the pop of those dates would increase. But the pop of those dates has been relatively stable for over 15 or more years.
FYI, I have exposed pure copper to NH3 and the resultant is a turquoise blue tarnish in <24 hours time. I only suggest that ammonia used as a cleaning agent, as my mother used to use, will infuse the air with an ammonia smell. For many years before the advent of Mr. Clean et al ammonia was the go to cleaning agent pre 1950.
I never alleged that all blue copper is NT. I only suggested that if it is blue regardless of light source that it may be AT.
OINK
I didn't say Rick's research was wrong. I'm saying it doesn't prove anything about the flood of blue and purple copper on the market today. I am open to the tissue paper as a source of sulfur and natural toning. I do, however, think there is a deluge of AT copper including in holders straight graded by the big 2. Regarding ammonia, if it is concentrated within a closed container, I could see a plausible mechanism; however, once it is mixed with ambient air the concentration is so dilute. I don't think there is a high enough concentration, even over time, to explain the coins on the market.
@cameonut2011 said:
Not that I take everything she says as gospel, but didn't Laura indicate that there was a well known IHC dealer selling blue copper (not Rick) that was a coin doctor and that there was purportedly evidence to back it up?
If I recall that thread correctly, Laura declined to sell through Legend Auctions many of the coins by a well known collector of toned IHC's as her "expert" thought them to be questionable color. I always assumed her "expert" to be JA, with whom she has a business relationship. I would love to hear her evidence on PM of course.
OINK
This was also speculated with some matte proof Lincolns as well. Look at some of the high grade BN (blue) examples that have mysteriously appeared in the past few years on coinfacts.
What I find interesting is Rick selling CAC FE cents w/o the Photo Seal sticker.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
@Lakesammman said:
What I find interesting is Rick selling CAC FE cents w/o the Photo Seal sticker.
Rick’s grading system is different. It’s P.D.S. (Planchet, Strike, Diestate). A coin may merit a CAC based on their system, but may not merit a Photo Seal for Rick’s system. For example, the strike may not be strong, and/or it may have been struck from older dies.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@Lakesammman said:
What I find interesting is Rick selling CAC FE cents w/o the Photo Seal sticker.
I was under the impression that he didn't sticker his own inventory, but rather the coins with PS had the stickers from being submitted by a prior owner. I could be wrong on that point. It could also be that he is thinking that it is a lower end market acceptable coin that is wholesome but doesn't meet the Photoseal standards.
I was under the impression that he didn't sticker his own inventory, but rather the coins with PS had the stickers from being submitted by a prior owner. I could be wrong on that point. It could also be that he is thinking that it is a lower end market acceptable coin that is wholesome but doesn't meet the Photoseal standards.
Rick will sticker any sourced coin that merits his Eagle Eye Photo Seal, whether sent in by a client, or a coin that he buys for his own inventory to sell.
@Commencents said:
I bought this 1905 IHC from Rick last year. He sent a signed plastic card with it which I thought was neat.
I bought it for the beautiful toning and it has nice luster!
All coins submitted to Rick requesting an Eagle Eye Photo Seal (I believe the cost is $15, and that is returned if it fails) gets that nice plasticized card showing the photo of your coin with the new PS on it. Additionally, for those of us like me with poor photo skills, he keeps the actual photo on his website for you to access and download/copy.
Stay safe!
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
My guess (strictly a guess) on the 1856 Flyer, is rick didnt photo seal it because it is a Snow-9 in an MS pcgs holder(catalog #2103). Should be reclassified as a Pf.
Comments
Yes. The number of stickers is only limited by the size of the slab!
Dave
Yes, as long as both of the folks that are using stickers to show that a coin meets a certain stickering requirement and therefore think that said coin deserves to be stuck with a sticker then there can be two stickers.
Yep ... not my coin.
Great Collections cream puff.
If I remember correctly, Rick Snow was doing this before CAC was even a thing.
Correct.
I have a 1857 flyer (S-9, with clash marks) with both stickers.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Rick's sticker carries far more weight among IHC collectors generally, but yes, you can have both.
as mentioned yes:
my 1877 Has both CAC and PS. My 56 Flyer Has PS , have never sent into CAC as of yet, even though I have owned it now over 8 years. I was always under the impression that RICK's PS carries more weight to the indian head cent collectors, therefore never bothered to submit it to CAC. I see somebody else thinking the same. I will eventually submit it to CAC , and am pretty confident it will get the sticker as well.
Dave99b , I saw that 1856 Flyer in Pf 65 in the upcoming catskills collection at GC, I am with you looks to be a very lovely coin. My only thing is I currently have a Pf-61 S-3 (probably a 62 today) that I had rick submit to PCGS years ago to get the S-3 placed on the label (since they quit designating any Ms) years ago. And would hate to sell an S-3 for and S-9.
I think one day I will take a day or two and drive up to CAC and submit this coin, and a couple of others that are well into 5 figures that I have never tried yet. It makes me nervous about sending them thru the mail especially with everything going on currently, package loss, unpaid claims and stuff, Just read yesterday about the forum member losing 7500 worth of silver.
In the future slabs may look like the football helmets of top college players.
For my digital Dansco 7070 Type Set, my Flying Eagle and each of my three types of IHC’s each have CAC’s and Photo Seals. Three of those four also have a “+”.
https://caimages.collectors.com/coinimages/42396/35924108/58_ll_m66_p083[1].jpg
https://caimages.collectors.com/coinimages/42396/50063907/59m66p073[1].jpg
https://caimages.collectors.com/coinimages/42396/09896929/62p66_p293.jpg
This photo was taken by Rick Snow before the CAC sticker was automatically reapplied after it got the “+” after being sent back to PCGS for Reconsideration. It now has both stickers, but since my camera skills are not good, I use this photo.
https://caimages.collectors.com/coinimages/42396/25625807/01m66_rdp073[1].jpg
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Wow! That's a blazer!
Awesome coins all! Thanks for posting
The Flying Eagle Cent was originally graded by PCGS as MS66, and then submitted by the prior owner to CAC, and he/she successfully got that sticker. I then bought it in a Heritage auction, and I had to pay a strong price due to its eye appeal. Once in my hands, I then submitted it to Rick Snow, and he agreed it merited his coveted Eagle Eye Photo Seal, and he applied that sticker. I then sent it back to PCGS using "Reconsideration" (they don't remove it from the existing holder unless it upgrades). Obviously, they now saw both a CAC AND Eagle Eye Photo Seal (having these may NOT have made a difference, since in theory they look only at the coin in the holder). Regardless, they agreed the original grade was too strict, so they then removed it from the MS66 holder to give it a new label at MS66+. I then resubmitted it as an MS66+ to both CAC and Rick Snow to get those labels AUTOMATICALLY reapplied, since neither recognizes “+” grades. The "Reconsideration" method retains the SAME cert number on an upgrade, and the upgrade was only a "+", NOT to the next whole grade number! The CAC cost to reapply a sticker is only $3, and Rick Snow does not charge a fee to reapply his sticker.
Take a look at the price differential between the 66 and 66+. It’s shocking!
I never buy a coin anticipating an upgrade. If some of my coins upgrade, it’s just a real nice bonus. No disappointment when coins fail getting upgraded.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Congrats on an awesome journey and an awesome result!
I don't really have time for that right now, but hope to one day
Yes. I have one. I think it is an 1864 copper-nickel Cent.
Nice that Rick doesn’t charge for a replacement sticker. I just lost his sticker in doing an attribution done recently so I guess I will be sending that to him with some others
There's a "point of diminishing returns" where a tiny difference in quality results in a huge difference in price. I try to buy a coin at the highest grade before the big jump in price at the next higher grade.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I fully agree, and that's what I do! That's why I bought this as a 66 with just a CAC. Although I paid a strong price for the 66 due to the great eye appeal, I did not buy it with the expectation that it would upgrade to a 66+. Like you, I'm not one of the people with very deep pockets that would/can buy this as a 66+ with a CAC and a Photo Seal
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I personally would value the Eagle Eye sticker more than any other. Cheers, RickO
For decades, that is something that Dave Bowers has advocated doing too.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
@winesteven Seriously those minuscule photos are a mere tease, surely you can promptly post large sized images of said coins.
Think along the lines of receiving the much coveted "You Suck" !
I've also have been advocating this for decades. It's just common sense to buy value. Buying a slightly better coin for double the money never made any sense to me. Chasing the highest grade at any cost is a direct result of the competition on the Coin Registry.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That's a nice looking coin!
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Some really cool coins in this thread!
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Thanks. I bought it from Rick. He told me he saw it as a 64.
There's some beautiful looking coin here
I bought this one from rick for (way) over the market money........

But after I searched my files........

But Rick does not put his Eagle Eye Seal on all of the coins he sells.
OINK
I put a coconut scratch and sniff on mine.
Love that 1885, really nice
Have a PF63 IHC with the PS that is beautifully toned. Sent it to CAC thinking I might get a gold sticker. Didn't pass. CAC may not trust some toning that Rick Snow likes? Still love the coin and still think it should grade higher, but too common to mess with further.
My guess is that the coin to which you're referring was blue toned. If you do a search, there are multiple threads regarding this topic. There are a lot of blue AT Indian and Lincoln cents out there. Some are NT but it's extremely hard to tell the difference. Given what I've seen, Rick is more likely to accept certain ones as NT than JA (CAC). I highly respect them both.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
It was, and I have followed the "blue" threads, but didn't pick up on what may be a more conservative CAC position. Thanks for the response.
The position of the stickers seems odd to me. The eagle should always be on the right facing the text and endorsed grade as opposed to facing left with the eagle/Rick metaphorically turning his back on the piece and the label grade. Since many series specialists opine (and Rick even posting an article with pictorial examples/evidence suggesting) that CAC is more liberal in grading FE and IHC it would seem more natural that the green bean would be to the left of the > @OldIndianNutKase said:
I wonder if CAC auto stickers the blue ones too.
Early on JA would sticker them too but CAC certainly has tightened on this one narrow issue.
Rick Snow traced the provenance of iridescently toned IHC proofs back to a few dealers who bought them in bulk in the late 19th Century from the Mint and stored them in paper flips. These coins were discovered to have toned in those paper flips in the era 1930-1940 and were sold at this early time as iridescent toned proofs, to a very significant discount to RD proofs. There is no question that they are NT due to their storage in paper flips and possibly due to other environmental conditions such as ammonia water vapor which was used as a common cleaning agent at that time in history.
I have found that NT PR IHC's look BR in the holder, but will show their underlying color only when tilted appropriately to the light. AT coins have more of a "painted" on look and look toned at all angles to the light.
You can readily see from the 1885 that I posted, the slab view shows just BR color, but the TrueView captures the fabulous underlying toning.
OINK
Pretty soon you’re going to need a slab extender for all of the stickers out there. One coin Will cost more to slab and stickerize than a gold eagle soon.
You keep posting this as if this has been indisputably proven and is fact. I'm certainly open to the likelihood that some of the blue pieces are in fact NT. It does not follow logically that all blue copper are therefore natural. Second, your ammonia theory seems implausible to me. The ammonia concentration would need to exceed certain thresholds and be constant over time at levels that I do not believe are consistent with normal ambient conditions or life to be frank.
Not that I take everything she says as gospel, but didn't Laura indicate that there was a well known IHC dealer selling blue copper (not Rick) that was a coin doctor and that there was purportedly evidence to back it up?
Excuse me cameonut2011, but Rick Snow's investigation into the history of toned IHC PR coins does have evidence in fact. Unfortunately, these coins were discovered and subsequently sold long before TPG's and/or color photography of coin auctions. Not ALL of the coins toned "blue", in fact many that have blue tones have red tones as well. You cannot discount the authenticity of coins that are over 100 years old that have blue or other toning without questioning coins of the same era that are originally Red.
There are certain dates of IHC's that are quite rare with nice or even blue toning such as 1871 and 1890, and most all dates prior to 1870. In PR66 BN condition these coins have a market value of near $10,000. If coin doctors were able to produce examples of these coins the pop of those dates would increase. But the pop of those dates has been relatively stable for over 15 or more years.
FYI, I have exposed pure copper to NH3 and the resultant is a turquoise blue tarnish in <24 hours time. I only suggest that ammonia used as a cleaning agent, as my mother used to use, will infuse the air with an ammonia smell. For many years before the advent of Mr. Clean et al ammonia was the go to cleaning agent pre 1950.
I never alleged that all blue copper is NT. I only suggested that if it is blue regardless of light source that it may be AT.
OINK
Just received this coin in the mail yesterday. Does my coin qualify for any stickers? I'm not too keen on the knowledge and meaning behind these stickers. Lol Thanks


"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I’ll give you a unicorn sticker and a Yankees logo sticker.
If I recall that thread correctly, Laura declined to sell through Legend Auctions many of the coins by a well known collector of toned IHC's as her "expert" thought them to be questionable color. I always assumed her "expert" to be JA, with whom she has a business relationship. I would love to hear her evidence on PM of course.
OINK
I didn't say Rick's research was wrong. I'm saying it doesn't prove anything about the flood of blue and purple copper on the market today. I am open to the tissue paper as a source of sulfur and natural toning. I do, however, think there is a deluge of AT copper including in holders straight graded by the big 2. Regarding ammonia, if it is concentrated within a closed container, I could see a plausible mechanism; however, once it is mixed with ambient air the concentration is so dilute. I don't think there is a high enough concentration, even over time, to explain the coins on the market.
This was also speculated with some matte proof Lincolns as well. Look at some of the high grade BN (blue) examples that have mysteriously appeared in the past few years on coinfacts.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
What I find interesting is Rick selling CAC FE cents w/o the Photo Seal sticker.
Rick’s grading system is different. It’s P.D.S. (Planchet, Strike, Diestate). A coin may merit a CAC based on their system, but may not merit a Photo Seal for Rick’s system. For example, the strike may not be strong, and/or it may have been struck from older dies.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I was under the impression that he didn't sticker his own inventory, but rather the coins with PS had the stickers from being submitted by a prior owner. I could be wrong on that point. It could also be that he is thinking that it is a lower end market acceptable coin that is wholesome but doesn't meet the Photoseal standards.
You can add a QA (Quality Assurance) sticker too.
I bought this 1905 IHC from Rick last year. He sent a signed plastic card with it which I thought was neat.
I bought it for the beautiful toning and it has nice luster!
Rick will sticker any sourced coin that merits his Eagle Eye Photo Seal, whether sent in by a client, or a coin that he buys for his own inventory to sell.
All coins submitted to Rick requesting an Eagle Eye Photo Seal (I believe the cost is $15, and that is returned if it fails) gets that nice plasticized card showing the photo of your coin with the new PS on it. Additionally, for those of us like me with poor photo skills, he keeps the actual photo on his website for you to access and download/copy.
Stay safe!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
My guess (strictly a guess) on the 1856 Flyer, is rick didnt photo seal it because it is a Snow-9 in an MS pcgs holder(catalog #2103). Should be reclassified as a Pf.