@Zoins said:
How many items has this person returned?
What determines if someone is a tire-kicker vs. a regular person returning an item?
One tire is too many when there are great pics and a PCGS opinion. Besides, way to many buyers on ebay to be losing paypal fees more than once because of the same buyer. Block 'em.
If I REALLY want the coin, I might message them stating I'd cover all transaction and shipping costs if they'll allow a return, but it'd have to be a mighty special item.
Honestly, as a dealer, your message sends a Huge Red Flag.
Returning a coin isn't the problem in many cases, it's having to pay the cost of providing the buyer with an opportunity to look at it in hand and then make a decision whether or not to buy. More sellers would be okay with returns if more buyers were willing to cover shipping and fees on coins they send back.
@Zoins said:
How many items has this person returned?
What determines if someone is a tire-kicker vs. a regular person returning an item?
One tire is too many when there are great pics and a PCGS opinion. Besides, way to many buyers on ebay to be losing paypal fees more than once because of the same buyer. Block 'em.
If I REALLY want the coin, I might message them stating I'd cover all transaction and shipping costs if they'll allow a return, but it'd have to be a mighty special item.
Honestly, as a dealer, your message sends a Huge Red Flag.
Some may block you.
Life goes on. This isn't my livelihood, and there's always another coin. In twenty years of buying and selling on eBay, I've pretty much seen it all and really none of it bothers me anymore. Amazingly, I don't believe I've ever had an item returned except for a couple of instances where there was damage during shipment. I did have a couple people renege on me in the last several months. One guy paid for a $25 fixed price book and then immediately cancelled, and another guy won a true auction for a rare $200 book, paid for it, and then asked to cancel the next morning. I ended up blocking both of them but only because the first guy never bothered to respond when I sent him a message explaining that cancelling after payment now costs the seller money, and the second guy sent a lame excuse which I didn't believe. If the first guy had simply said he hadn't been aware of that and was sorry, I wouldn't have blocked him. It cost me probably a dollar in fees. The second guy might have been gone under any circumstances as backing out of an auction win is extremely bad form by my code of ethics. But a better excuse would have forced me to at least think about it.
@Zoins said:
How many items has this person returned?
What determines if someone is a tire-kicker vs. a regular person returning an item?
One tire is too many when there are great pics and a PCGS opinion. Besides, way to many buyers on ebay to be losing paypal fees more than once because of the same buyer. Block 'em.
If I REALLY want the coin, I might message them stating I'd cover all transaction and shipping costs if they'll allow a return, but it'd have to be a mighty special item.
Honestly, as a dealer, your message sends a Huge Red Flag.
Some may block you.
Or to put it another way: If an eBay coin seller has a "no returns" policy, that is already a huge red flag for me. If their response to an entirely well-intended and reasonable request from me is to block me, then that just confirms my suspicions.
In an up market the difficult or reluctant buyers are not usually really noticeable or present. In a buyers market the opposite asserts itself.
For eBay I have been fortunate returns are few and far between. However it can happen buyer dissatisfaction, remorse, etc. in the old days on eBay you could see what a buyer was buying from others. One fellow returned a coin which was a really nice PF69 gold coin. I looked on his buying history and he had purchased the same thing from another seller for less.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Coinjunkie, you and I both know that you can return a coin on eBay for any reason.
So why agitate your potential new awesome dealer?
Because for me (and I hope anyone who buys from me) SNAD is an absolute last resort. I believe in friendly, open, and honest communication and have found that I can tell a lot about someone's character in the way they handle messaging. A recipient of my message would also easily be able verify that I've been on eBay for twenty years, do a fair volume of sales, and have perfect feedback. In other words, I am not just a random tire kicker. If I offer to make a potential return totally no risk for a seller (except for a week of lost time) and they reject that, so what? Their loss, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to take it personally.
@Zoins said:
How many items has this person returned?
What determines if someone is a tire-kicker vs. a regular person returning an item?
One tire is too many when there are great pics and a PCGS opinion. Besides, way to many buyers on ebay to be losing paypal fees more than once because of the same buyer. Block 'em.
Look, I LOVE PCGS but there's a ton of coins in every TPG's holders that don't meet my personal standards. I have always regarded sellers who justify a no-return policy because so-and-so certified the coin as laughable. This whole bad actors on eBay debate really cuts both ways. There are a lot of sellers I won't deal with simply because they project an attitude of not being buyer-friendly. No returns on coins is almost an automatic deal-breaker. If I REALLY want the coin, I might message them stating I'd cover all transaction and shipping costs if they'll allow a return, but it'd have to be a mighty special item. For generic stuff, there are too many other dealers out there to deal with curmudgeons.
You're mixing issues. The issue for the OP is that there are costs associated with handling a return. If a coin is properly described, it shouldn't be on the seller (unless they choose otherwise) to take on those costs. If a coin is listed as a PCGS MS65 and you get it and think it's an MS64, that's not on the seller. Maybe... maybe if the seller went over the top ("this coin is incredible--easily MS67") you have a case (and certainly if the seller botched the description; a modern that turned in the holder but the spots aren't visible in the photo, for example), but if the coin is accurately described and you just disagree with the grade, your disagreement is with PCGS. You bought a PCGS MS65, and that's what you got.
Now, with that said, if you buy a coin from me and don't like it, that's fine. You may return it, and as long as I end up whole, it's fine by me. Yes I'd prefer not to take the return (I sell on consignment, so it creates more bookkeeping work for me), but you're welcome to it. If instead you file a claim that it's SNAD because the grade is wrong and now I'm stuck paying for the shipping and fees, you won't get a second chance.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Coinjunkie, you and I both know that you can return a coin on eBay for any reason.
Because there's a big difference using SNAD because you were actually wronged and because you just wanted to force a return when you knew well that it wasn't allowed, and that difference is a matter of you and your ethics.
I'll put it this way: If there's an actual problem, I'd rather a buyer just email me rather than go through the SNAD process. I'll take care of them. But if they go through the SNAD process and I realize I was wrong, you better believe they'll get an apology that I got something wrong. But if I was right, they'll never do business with me again.
A big issue seems to be eBay's preferential treatment of sellers with return policies. Because of this, sellers can end up having a return policy when they don't really want one.
An interesting comparison is Amazon where Amazon does the shipping and returns on behalf of sellers on their platform. Almost anything can be returned and it's easy to do.
If you think it is overgraded is beside the point.
If you and the op were coin collectors you would know just how silly this sound and is. But being only flippers you don't really care about quality only quantity so to you if a coin is overgraded it doesn't matter; but it does matter to the collectors.
@Zoins said:
How many items has this person returned?
What determines if someone is a tire-kicker vs. a regular person returning an item?
One tire is too many when there are great pics and a PCGS opinion. Besides, way to many buyers on ebay to be losing paypal fees more than once because of the same buyer. Block 'em.
Look, I LOVE PCGS but there's a ton of coins in every TPG's holders that don't meet my personal standards. I have always regarded sellers who justify a no-return policy because so-and-so certified the coin as laughable. This whole bad actors on eBay debate really cuts both ways. There are a lot of sellers I won't deal with simply because they project an attitude of not being buyer-friendly. No returns on coins is almost an automatic deal-breaker. If I REALLY want the coin, I might message them stating I'd cover all transaction and shipping costs if they'll allow a return, but it'd have to be a mighty special item. For generic stuff, there are too many other dealers out there to deal with curmudgeons.
You're mixing issues. The issue for the OP is that there are costs associated with handling a return. If a coin is properly described, it shouldn't be on the seller (unless they choose otherwise) to take on those costs. If a coin is listed as a PCGS MS65 and you get it and think it's an MS64, that's not on the seller. Maybe... maybe if the seller went over the top ("this coin is incredible--easily MS67") you have a case (and certainly if the seller botched the description; a modern that turned in the holder but the spots aren't visible in the photo, for example), but if the coin is accurately described and you just disagree with the grade, your disagreement is with PCGS. You bought a PCGS MS65, and that's what you got.
Now, with that said, if you buy a coin from me and don't like it, that's fine. You may return it, and as long as I end up whole, it's fine by me. Yes I'd prefer not to take the return (I sell on consignment, so it creates more bookkeeping work for me), but you're welcome to it. If instead you file a claim that it's SNAD because the grade is wrong and now I'm stuck paying for the shipping and fees, you won't get a second chance.
I'm not "mixing issues". As an eBay veteran (seller and buyer) of twenty years, I'm well aware that there are costs associated with returned items. That is why in any case where there hasn't been egregious misrepresentation of a coin by the seller, I always offer to cover all costs associated with a return (as I stated). The point I was making was that if a seller wants to have a no return policy, that's entirely up to them, BUT that's not an excuse to take misleading photos or not disclose invisible issues while falling back on "PCGS blessed the coin so you (the buyer) have no right to be dissatisfied".
For the record, I've purchased at least one (maybe two) coins from you in the past, and the photos were quite accurate and I loved the coin(s). You're one of the "good guys" on eBay. I will also add that I don't return items won in an auction, only fixed price. The last couple times I did that (due to the coin looking much different than the photos), I still offered to make the seller whole, and both times they told me they'd cover the charges! Goodwill goes a long way in both directions.
@Zoins said:
How many items has this person returned?
What determines if someone is a tire-kicker vs. a regular person returning an item?
One tire is too many when there are great pics and a PCGS opinion. Besides, way to many buyers on ebay to be losing paypal fees more than once because of the same buyer. Block 'em.
If I REALLY want the coin, I might message them stating I'd cover all transaction and shipping costs if they'll allow a return, but it'd have to be a mighty special item.
Honestly, as a dealer, your message sends a Huge Red Flag.
Some may block you.
Or to put it another way: If an eBay coin seller has a "no returns" policy, that is already a huge red flag for me. If their response to an entirely well-intended and reasonable request from me is to block me, then that just confirms my suspicions.
Well, if your suspicion is that the dealer can do math... LOL
Low margin, high incremental cost of sales...there's really no choice but to try and weed out people using you as an approval service. It's not that I care about returns. I care about footing the cost for those returns when the coin is exactly what you purchased.
What part of I offered to cover all costs associated with the return was unclear to you??? I'll also point out that I'm not really interested in the types of coins you're selling, so in practice it won't be an issue.
@cameonut2011 said:
Why people continue to use eBay and PayPal I'll never know. At 2.9% that can translate in 100s or 1000s of lost dollars for a single larger transaction. With margins growing ever thinner, I don't see how the model can remain profitable when you factor in huge losses for potentially frivolous returns.
Why does Walmart take credit cards?
Therein lies your answer.
Walmart isn't paying 2.9% or anywhere near it. Payment processors offer very low rates when you bring millions of dollars in business every year. How many eBay coin dealers do that?
Give your clients excellent photography of your coins for sale.
What will this get, very, very close to ZERO returns
Unless you sell an infrequently traded coin and a new example coincidentally sets a record low that neither the buyer or sellers is aware of on the sale date and your buyer wants a return because he thinks he over paid (even if the other coin is inferior). Unless you sell classic gold and the price of gold free falls. Unless you sell bullion. Unless a buyer has buyer's remorse for paying up for a PQ piece or toning (per the buyer's own eBay message admission). Unless your buyer has a stroke and can't keep it but you offer unconditional returns. I've had 3/4 happen to me, and none were my fault. Fortunately the no refund of PP fee policy wasn't in effect. I wouldn't sell there in the current climate.
I've sat and listened to people complaining about eBays seller policies for well over a decade yet those that complain continue to sell there. Nobody is forcing you to sell on eBay, you can always take your business someone else. eBay is the greatest coin shop on planet earth. Period.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
@blitzdude said:
I've sat and listened to people complaining about eBays seller policies for well over a decade yet those that complain continue to sell there. Nobody is forcing you to sell on eBay, you can always take your business someone else. eBay is the greatest coin shop on planet earth. Period.
Yes, it's perfect.
Governments can print currency. Only the people can print faith in it — and they’re running low on ink.
Again, you are being far too literal. That comment was not aimed at you specifically but the general issue of returns. I personally allow returns, but I block people that make me pay for them.
Well, since you have to pay the paypal fee on any return, like the OP, looks like you block anyone who sends you a return, including the tire kickers. As it should be.
Governments can print currency. Only the people can print faith in it — and they’re running low on ink.
I've only returned a couple coins over alot of years. Kept a few I wasn't real happy with but none were high dollar. When I did return those few coins, I paid all fees. Wasn't a question of getting blocked. I just felt it was the right thing to do. Maybe I'm just a softie, I'm certainly not a businessman.
If you think it is overgraded is beside the point.
If you and the op were coin collectors you would know just how silly this sound and is. But being only flippers you don't really care about quality only quantity so to you if a coin is overgraded it doesn't matter; but it does matter to the collectors.
You are missing the central point. A PCGS 65 coin has a value as a sight unseen PCGS 65 coin. If you are trying to find a high end PCGS 65 coin, you need it to buy sight seen not sight unseen. It has nothing to do with "quality" versus "quantity". A widget sold as a 65 at Greysheet sight unseen prices is ALWAYS exactly what you purchased. It is a commodity.
And I'm as much a "coin collector" as you are. The fact that I choose to flip coins to pay for the coins that I put in the safe for myself, only means that I handle many more coins than you do and have a better sense of the overall market. So you may dismount your extra tall equine.
You ignored my question about Heritage and Stack's. Auctions are usually run "as is, where is" with no return option. You can choose not to participate. But, to my point, if you've ever bought from Heritage or Stack's, why do you think eBay should give you a greater return privilege than they do?
Because the greatest coin store on earth offers returns. Heritage and Stacks do not.
Give your clients excellent photography of your coins for sale.
Apparently we should just all sell errors because that market segment is PERFECT.
I have been selling on ebay for 20 years.
I use to sell many types of coins, but mostly low end error coins.
In that 20 years I have focused and narrowed my business to only selling MS certified mint error coins preferably modern.
Two reasons I did this. I absolutely love error coins. I know pricing and the spread.
Obviously, this will not work if everyone jumped in and did the same. Altho I wish that would happen as I am set Come on in the water is fine (where is that Shark emoji)
For one thing, you have to be an expert.
Instead of following my model, make your model. Find a nitch that you love in the coin market and concentrate on it. I guaranty you can find awesome deals in your nitch if you want to work for it.
If you think it is overgraded is beside the point.
If you and the op were coin collectors you would know just how silly this sound and is. But being only flippers you don't really care about quality only quantity so to you if a coin is overgraded it doesn't matter; but it does matter to the collectors.
You are missing the central point. A PCGS 65 coin has a value as a sight unseen PCGS 65 coin. If you are trying to find a high end PCGS 65 coin, you need it to buy sight seen not sight unseen. It has nothing to do with "quality" versus "quantity". A widget sold as a 65 at Greysheet sight unseen prices is ALWAYS exactly what you purchased. It is a commodity.
And I'm as much a "coin collector" as you are. The fact that I choose to flip coins to pay for the coins that I put in the safe for myself, only means that I handle many more coins than you do and have a better sense of the overall market. So you may dismount your extra tall equine.
You ignored my question about Heritage and Stack's. Auctions are usually run "as is, where is" with no return option. You can choose not to participate. But, to my point, if you've ever bought from Heritage or Stack's, why do you think eBay should give you a greater return privilege than they do?
No your the one missing the point and working with apples to oranges comparisons. Sure every MS65 ASE or AGE is the same for those are just a commodity because that and modern quarters and other commodities are what you and the op flip you want to apply that to the broader market. Again if you were a collector of coins not bullion you would understand that not every 65 is the same as every other 65, collectors want a coin to talk to them not something to stack. I don't buy coins to mark off a line on a sheet or just to fill a hole, I want that coin to have a look and if that look in hand isn't right back it goes because I'm a collector not a stacker. If you really know the greater market as you claim to you would know that there are plenty of dog coins in MS65 or whatever grade you want to use out in the market and photos can be deceptive even when that wasn't the sellers intent. How often is there a guess the grade thread here where the guesses vary by 3 or more grade points, happens all the time. Why, several reasons but one is that photos can look different on different devices, photos are often a poor substitute for the in hand look.
No tall equine here just the facts which you are having trouble handling, get over yourself. Stack's and Heritage while they are auctions sites that is where the similarity to Ebay ends so I ignored your question because its apples to oranges, Ebay has always allowed returns where those firms do not. Also those firms allow for lot viewing which is not available through Ebay, they are not the same.
Bottom line stop the wining, you chose to use the Ebay platform so suck it up there buttercup, some of us are sick and tired of hearing how rough your life is. If your going to sell there you need to understand that the rose comes with the thorns.
If you think it is overgraded is beside the point.
If you and the op were coin collectors you would know just how silly this sound and is. But being only flippers you don't really care about quality only quantity so to you if a coin is overgraded it doesn't matter; but it does matter to the collectors.
You are missing the central point. A PCGS 65 coin has a value as a sight unseen PCGS 65 coin. If you are trying to find a high end PCGS 65 coin, you need it to buy sight seen not sight unseen. It has nothing to do with "quality" versus "quantity". A widget sold as a 65 at Greysheet sight unseen prices is ALWAYS exactly what you purchased. It is a commodity.
And I'm as much a "coin collector" as you are. The fact that I choose to flip coins to pay for the coins that I put in the safe for myself, only means that I handle many more coins than you do and have a better sense of the overall market. So you may dismount your extra tall equine.
You ignored my question about Heritage and Stack's. Auctions are usually run "as is, where is" with no return option. You can choose not to participate. But, to my point, if you've ever bought from Heritage or Stack's, why do you think eBay should give you a greater return privilege than they do?
No your the one missing the point and working with apples to oranges comparisons. Sure every MS65 ASE or AGE is the same for those are just a commodity because that and modern quarters and other commodities are what you and the op flip you want to apply that to the broader market. Again if you were a collector of coins not bullion you would understand that not every 65 is the same as every other 65, collectors want a coin to talk to them not something to stack. I don't buy coins to mark off a line on a sheet or just to fill a hole, I want that coin to have a look and if that look in hand isn't right back it goes because I'm a collector not a stacker. If you really know the greater market as you claim to you would know that there are plenty of dog coins in MS65 or whatever grade you want to use out in the market and photos can be deceptive even when that wasn't the sellers intent. How often is there a guess the grade thread here where the guesses vary by 3 or more grade points, happens all the time. Why, several reasons but one is that photos can look different on different devices, photos are often a poor substitute for the in hand look.
No tall equine here just the facts which you are having trouble handling, get over yourself. Stack's and Heritage while they are auctions sites that is where the similarity to Ebay ends so I ignored your question because its apples to oranges, Ebay has always allowed returns where those firms do not. Also those firms allow for lot viewing which is not available through Ebay, they are not the same.
Bottom line stop the wining, you chose to use the Ebay platform so suck it up there buttercup, some of us are sick and tired of hearing how rough your life is. If your going to sell there you need to understand that the rose comes with the thorns.
You criticized my post which referred to widgets in MS65. Now you criticize me for (allegedly) not recognizing that you are not talking about widgets in MS65. It is not I who missed the point. I addressed both the widget issue and the non-widget issue.
You can feel free to keep skipping over the context of my statements. That doesn't change anything.
I have several times referred to the desire of some to cherry 65s. I also pointed out that I have no problem with doing that as long as you pay the cost of shipping (both ways) and the unrefundable PayPal fees. But you're attempt to cherry a 65 will not be done on my dime, it is simply unfair.
If you don't want to risk buying coins sight unseen, simply don't buy coins sight unseen. You've at least implied that you will not buy coins from Heritage and Stacks unless you've previewed them in person. [Which I also mentioned in my post, but you ignored.] Why not extend the same courtesy to eBay sellers.
I will gladly allow you to view all my coins in hand if you want to stop by. Please make an appointment.
A tiny man on a tiny horse sometimes thinks he's sitting high in the saddle because he's so used to the view from the ground.
Insult me all you want it just shows how small a person you are.
If you think it is overgraded is beside the point.
If you and the op were coin collectors you would know just how silly this sound and is. But being only flippers you don't really care about quality only quantity so to you if a coin is overgraded it doesn't matter; but it does matter to the collectors.
You are missing the central point. A PCGS 65 coin has a value as a sight unseen PCGS 65 coin. If you are trying to find a high end PCGS 65 coin, you need it to buy sight seen not sight unseen. It has nothing to do with "quality" versus "quantity". A widget sold as a 65 at Greysheet sight unseen prices is ALWAYS exactly what you purchased. It is a commodity.
And I'm as much a "coin collector" as you are. The fact that I choose to flip coins to pay for the coins that I put in the safe for myself, only means that I handle many more coins than you do and have a better sense of the overall market. So you may dismount your extra tall equine.
You ignored my question about Heritage and Stack's. Auctions are usually run "as is, where is" with no return option. You can choose not to participate. But, to my point, if you've ever bought from Heritage or Stack's, why do you think eBay should give you a greater return privilege than they do?
No your the one missing the point and working with apples to oranges comparisons. Sure every MS65 ASE or AGE is the same for those are just a commodity because that and modern quarters and other commodities are what you and the op flip you want to apply that to the broader market. Again if you were a collector of coins not bullion you would understand that not every 65 is the same as every other 65, collectors want a coin to talk to them not something to stack. I don't buy coins to mark off a line on a sheet or just to fill a hole, I want that coin to have a look and if that look in hand isn't right back it goes because I'm a collector not a stacker. If you really know the greater market as you claim to you would know that there are plenty of dog coins in MS65 or whatever grade you want to use out in the market and photos can be deceptive even when that wasn't the sellers intent. How often is there a guess the grade thread here where the guesses vary by 3 or more grade points, happens all the time. Why, several reasons but one is that photos can look different on different devices, photos are often a poor substitute for the in hand look.
No tall equine here just the facts which you are having trouble handling, get over yourself. Stack's and Heritage while they are auctions sites that is where the similarity to Ebay ends so I ignored your question because its apples to oranges, Ebay has always allowed returns where those firms do not. Also those firms allow for lot viewing which is not available through Ebay, they are not the same.
Bottom line stop the wining, you chose to use the Ebay platform so suck it up there buttercup, some of us are sick and tired of hearing how rough your life is. If your going to sell there you need to understand that the rose comes with the thorns.
For the record, i'm the second biggest ebay booster around.
@Zoins said:
How many items has this person returned?
What determines if someone is a tire-kicker vs. a regular person returning an item?
I don't like returns when an underbidder ( for a dollar less) would have been elated to win.
There are returns in auction format, and those winners who returned an item will never bid again.
To answer the question: it's not what determines, but WHO determines. The seller, of course.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody and be perfect !
For the record, i'm the second biggest ebay booster around. You are conflating me eith Derry. I made NO complaint about ebay in this thread at all. I simply stated that I block returners and explained why.
As did I.
Governments can print currency. Only the people can print faith in it — and they’re running low on ink.
If you think it is overgraded is beside the point.
If you and the op were coin collectors you would know just how silly this sound and is. But being only flippers you don't really care about quality only quantity so to you if a coin is overgraded it doesn't matter; but it does matter to the collectors.
You are missing the central point. A PCGS 65 coin has a value as a sight unseen PCGS 65 coin. If you are trying to find a high end PCGS 65 coin, you need it to buy sight seen not sight unseen. It has nothing to do with "quality" versus "quantity". A widget sold as a 65 at Greysheet sight unseen prices is ALWAYS exactly what you purchased. It is a commodity.
And I'm as much a "coin collector" as you are. The fact that I choose to flip coins to pay for the coins that I put in the safe for myself, only means that I handle many more coins than you do and have a better sense of the overall mar.
You ignored my question about Heritage and Stack's. Auctions are usually run "as is, where is" with no return option. You can choose not to participate. But, to my point, if you've ever bought from Heritage or Stack's, why do you think eBay should give you a greater return privilege than they do?
No your the one missing the point and working with apples to oranges comparisons. Sure every MS65 ASE or AGE is the same for those are just a commodity because that and modern quarters and other commodities are what you and the op flip you want to apply that to the broader market. Again if you were a collector of coins not bullion you would understand that not every 65 is the same as every other 65, collectors want a coin to talk to them not something to stack. I don't buy coins to mark off a line on a sheet or just to fill a hole, I want that coin to have a look and if that look in hand isn't right back it goes because I'm a collector not a stacker. If you really know the greater market as you claim to you would know that there are plenty of dog coins in MS65 or whatever grade you want to use out in the market and photos can be deceptive even when that wasn't the sellers intent. How often is there a guess the grade thread here where the guesses vary by 3 or more grade points, happens all the time. Why, several reasons but one is that photos can look different on different devices, photos are often a poor substitute for the in hand look.
No tall equine here just the facts which you are having trouble handling, get over yourself. Stack's and Heritage while they are auctions sites that is where the similarity to Ebay ends so I ignored your question because its apples to oranges, Ebay has always allowed returns where those firms do not. Also those firms allow for lot viewing which is not available through Ebay, they are not the same.
Bottom line stop the wining, you chose to use the Ebay platform so suck it up there buttercup, some of us are sick and tired of hearing how rough your life is. If your going to sell there you need to understand that the rose comes with the thorns.
You criticized my post which referred to widgets in MS65. Now you criticize me for (allegedly) not recognizing that you are not talking about widgets in MS65. It is not I who missed the point. I addressed both the widget issue and the non-widget issue.
You can feel free to keep skipping over the context of my statements. That doesn't change anything.
I have several times referred to the desire of some to cherry 65s. I also pointed out that I have no problem with doing that as long as you pay the cost of shipping (both ways) and the unrefundable PayPal fees. But you're attempt to cherry a 65 will not be done on my dime, it is simply unfair.
If you don't want to risk buying coins sight unseen, simply don't buy coins sight unseen. You've at least implied that you will not buy coins from Heritage and Stacks unless you've previewed them in person. [Which I also mentioned in my post, but you ignored.] Why not extend the same courtesy to eBay sellers.
I will gladly allow you to view all my coins in hand if you want to stop by. Please make an appointment.
A tiny man on a tiny horse sometimes thinks he's sitting high in the saddle because he's so used to the view from the ground.
Insult me all you want it just shows how small a person you are.
It is not I who threw out insults. You basically threw Derry and I out of the collecting community. Was "flipper" supposed to be a compliment? Or "buttercup"?
Flipper is a term used to describe what you do, in fact in one of your replies you said "I choose to flip coins" which makes you a flipper, a middleman as it were. If you chose to take that as a derogatory well that's on you. Buttercup just a common phrase again take as you want, and did you expect me to take this as a term of endearment "So you may dismount your extra tall equine" If you cant take it don't dish.
For the record, most collections consist of "stuff" which has to be sold. I could wholesale it, but that means buying it sub-wholesale. If you've got anything you want to sell sub-wholesale send me a list....waiting...waiting...
😂
Thanks for proving my point. The majority of coins you're offering on eBay is "stuff". You're trying to play your buyers both ways for the incremental profit. If you were playing that game straight up, you wouldn't be offering a return privilege on material that is just wholesale, sight-unseen quality product. Instead, you represent as a retailer and then block any buyer who exercises an advertised privilege. Honestly, I don't care how you run your business, but don't put all the blame on the buyers in that scenario.
Comments
Honestly, as a dealer, your message sends a Huge Red Flag.
Some may block you.
Returning a coin isn't the problem in many cases, it's having to pay the cost of providing the buyer with an opportunity to look at it in hand and then make a decision whether or not to buy. More sellers would be okay with returns if more buyers were willing to cover shipping and fees on coins they send back.
Life goes on. This isn't my livelihood, and there's always another coin. In twenty years of buying and selling on eBay, I've pretty much seen it all and really none of it bothers me anymore. Amazingly, I don't believe I've ever had an item returned except for a couple of instances where there was damage during shipment. I did have a couple people renege on me in the last several months. One guy paid for a $25 fixed price book and then immediately cancelled, and another guy won a true auction for a rare $200 book, paid for it, and then asked to cancel the next morning. I ended up blocking both of them but only because the first guy never bothered to respond when I sent him a message explaining that cancelling after payment now costs the seller money, and the second guy sent a lame excuse which I didn't believe. If the first guy had simply said he hadn't been aware of that and was sorry, I wouldn't have blocked him. It cost me probably a dollar in fees. The second guy might have been gone under any circumstances as backing out of an auction win is extremely bad form by my code of ethics. But a better excuse would have forced me to at least think about it.
Start your own website for that tho people can change their eBay ID on a whim IIRC.
Or to put it another way: If an eBay coin seller has a "no returns" policy, that is already a huge red flag for me. If their response to an entirely well-intended and reasonable request from me is to block me, then that just confirms my suspicions.
Coinjunkie, you and I both know that you can return a coin on eBay for any reason.
So why agitate your potential new awesome dealer?
In an up market the difficult or reluctant buyers are not usually really noticeable or present. In a buyers market the opposite asserts itself.
For eBay I have been fortunate returns are few and far between. However it can happen buyer dissatisfaction, remorse, etc. in the old days on eBay you could see what a buyer was buying from others. One fellow returned a coin which was a really nice PF69 gold coin. I looked on his buying history and he had purchased the same thing from another seller for less.
Because for me (and I hope anyone who buys from me) SNAD is an absolute last resort. I believe in friendly, open, and honest communication and have found that I can tell a lot about someone's character in the way they handle messaging. A recipient of my message would also easily be able verify that I've been on eBay for twenty years, do a fair volume of sales, and have perfect feedback. In other words, I am not just a random tire kicker. If I offer to make a potential return totally no risk for a seller (except for a week of lost time) and they reject that, so what? Their loss, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to take it personally.
You have to be kidding right?? If not you really need to step away from the Kool-Aid and quickly.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
You're mixing issues. The issue for the OP is that there are costs associated with handling a return. If a coin is properly described, it shouldn't be on the seller (unless they choose otherwise) to take on those costs. If a coin is listed as a PCGS MS65 and you get it and think it's an MS64, that's not on the seller. Maybe... maybe if the seller went over the top ("this coin is incredible--easily MS67") you have a case (and certainly if the seller botched the description; a modern that turned in the holder but the spots aren't visible in the photo, for example), but if the coin is accurately described and you just disagree with the grade, your disagreement is with PCGS. You bought a PCGS MS65, and that's what you got.
Now, with that said, if you buy a coin from me and don't like it, that's fine. You may return it, and as long as I end up whole, it's fine by me. Yes I'd prefer not to take the return (I sell on consignment, so it creates more bookkeeping work for me), but you're welcome to it. If instead you file a claim that it's SNAD because the grade is wrong and now I'm stuck paying for the shipping and fees, you won't get a second chance.
Because there's a big difference using SNAD because you were actually wronged and because you just wanted to force a return when you knew well that it wasn't allowed, and that difference is a matter of you and your ethics.
I'll put it this way: If there's an actual problem, I'd rather a buyer just email me rather than go through the SNAD process. I'll take care of them. But if they go through the SNAD process and I realize I was wrong, you better believe they'll get an apology that I got something wrong. But if I was right, they'll never do business with me again.
I agree.
I was referring to the message before the coin is purchased asking about a return. Sound likes a (potential) problem buyer.
A big issue seems to be eBay's preferential treatment of sellers with return policies. Because of this, sellers can end up having a return policy when they don't really want one.
An interesting comparison is Amazon where Amazon does the shipping and returns on behalf of sellers on their platform. Almost anything can be returned and it's easy to do.
If you think it is overgraded is beside the point.
If you and the op were coin collectors you would know just how silly this sound and is. But being only flippers you don't really care about quality only quantity so to you if a coin is overgraded it doesn't matter; but it does matter to the collectors.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I'm not "mixing issues". As an eBay veteran (seller and buyer) of twenty years, I'm well aware that there are costs associated with returned items. That is why in any case where there hasn't been egregious misrepresentation of a coin by the seller, I always offer to cover all costs associated with a return (as I stated). The point I was making was that if a seller wants to have a no return policy, that's entirely up to them, BUT that's not an excuse to take misleading photos or not disclose invisible issues while falling back on "PCGS blessed the coin so you (the buyer) have no right to be dissatisfied".
For the record, I've purchased at least one (maybe two) coins from you in the past, and the photos were quite accurate and I loved the coin(s). You're one of the "good guys" on eBay. I will also add that I don't return items won in an auction, only fixed price. The last couple times I did that (due to the coin looking much different than the photos), I still offered to make the seller whole, and both times they told me they'd cover the charges! Goodwill goes a long way in both directions.
What part of I offered to cover all costs associated with the return was unclear to you??? I'll also point out that I'm not really interested in the types of coins you're selling, so in practice it won't be an issue.
Walmart isn't paying 2.9% or anywhere near it. Payment processors offer very low rates when you bring millions of dollars in business every year. How many eBay coin dealers do that?
Unless you sell an infrequently traded coin and a new example coincidentally sets a record low that neither the buyer or sellers is aware of on the sale date and your buyer wants a return because he thinks he over paid (even if the other coin is inferior). Unless you sell classic gold and the price of gold free falls. Unless you sell bullion. Unless a buyer has buyer's remorse for paying up for a PQ piece or toning (per the buyer's own eBay message admission). Unless your buyer has a stroke and can't keep it but you offer unconditional returns. I've had 3/4 happen to me, and none were my fault. Fortunately the no refund of PP fee policy wasn't in effect. I wouldn't sell there in the current climate.
I've sat and listened to people complaining about eBays seller policies for well over a decade yet those that complain continue to sell there. Nobody is forcing you to sell on eBay, you can always take your business someone else. eBay is the greatest coin shop on planet earth. Period.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
Yes, it's perfect.
Governments can print currency. Only the people can print faith in it — and they’re running low on ink.
Well, since you have to pay the paypal fee on any return, like the OP, looks like you block anyone who sends you a return, including the tire kickers. As it should be.
Governments can print currency. Only the people can print faith in it — and they’re running low on ink.
I've only returned a couple coins over alot of years. Kept a few I wasn't real happy with but none were high dollar. When I did return those few coins, I paid all fees. Wasn't a question of getting blocked. I just felt it was the right thing to do. Maybe I'm just a softie, I'm certainly not a businessman.
Because the greatest coin store on earth offers returns. Heritage and Stacks do not.
I have been selling on ebay for 20 years.
I use to sell many types of coins, but mostly low end error coins.
In that 20 years I have focused and narrowed my business to only selling MS certified mint error coins preferably modern.
Two reasons I did this. I absolutely love error coins. I know pricing and the spread.
Obviously, this will not work if everyone jumped in and did the same. Altho I wish that would happen as I am set
Come on in the water is fine (where is that Shark emoji) 
For one thing, you have to be an expert.
Instead of following my model, make your model. Find a nitch that you love in the coin market and concentrate on it. I guaranty you can find awesome deals in your nitch if you want to work for it.
No your the one missing the point and working with apples to oranges comparisons. Sure every MS65 ASE or AGE is the same for those are just a commodity because that and modern quarters and other commodities are what you and the op flip you want to apply that to the broader market. Again if you were a collector of coins not bullion you would understand that not every 65 is the same as every other 65, collectors want a coin to talk to them not something to stack. I don't buy coins to mark off a line on a sheet or just to fill a hole, I want that coin to have a look and if that look in hand isn't right back it goes because I'm a collector not a stacker. If you really know the greater market as you claim to you would know that there are plenty of dog coins in MS65 or whatever grade you want to use out in the market and photos can be deceptive even when that wasn't the sellers intent. How often is there a guess the grade thread here where the guesses vary by 3 or more grade points, happens all the time. Why, several reasons but one is that photos can look different on different devices, photos are often a poor substitute for the in hand look.
No tall equine here just the facts which you are having trouble handling, get over yourself. Stack's and Heritage while they are auctions sites that is where the similarity to Ebay ends so I ignored your question because its apples to oranges, Ebay has always allowed returns where those firms do not. Also those firms allow for lot viewing which is not available through Ebay, they are not the same.
Bottom line stop the wining, you chose to use the Ebay platform so suck it up there buttercup, some of us are sick and tired of hearing how rough your life is. If your going to sell there you need to understand that the rose comes with the thorns.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Insult me all you want it just shows how small a person you are.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
And number one would be ........???
I don't like returns when an underbidder ( for a dollar less) would have been elated to win.
There are returns in auction format, and those winners who returned an item will never bid again.
To answer the question: it's not what determines, but WHO determines. The seller, of course.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody and be perfect !
As did I.
Governments can print currency. Only the people can print faith in it — and they’re running low on ink.
Flipper is a term used to describe what you do, in fact in one of your replies you said "I choose to flip coins" which makes you a flipper, a middleman as it were. If you chose to take that as a derogatory well that's on you. Buttercup just a common phrase again take as you want, and did you expect me to take this as a term of endearment "So you may dismount your extra tall equine" If you cant take it don't dish.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
(not worth it)
Thanks for proving my point. The majority of coins you're offering on eBay is "stuff". You're trying to play your buyers both ways for the incremental profit. If you were playing that game straight up, you wouldn't be offering a return privilege on material that is just wholesale, sight-unseen quality product. Instead, you represent as a retailer and then block any buyer who exercises an advertised privilege. Honestly, I don't care how you run your business, but don't put all the blame on the buyers in that scenario.
For those of you here who think that eBay is broken how would you fix it?