Can youz guyz spot shill bidding in an Ebay auction?
Kirk222
Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
I've bee on Ebay over twenty years and have gotten pretty good at spotting shill bidding. However, when I report it to Ebay, they do nothing. One Ebay guy said, "There is nothing we can do in most cases". It drives me crazy. There are some sellers that do it regularly.
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I have bought tens of thousands of coins on ebay.
I have Never once worried about a shill as they make Zero difference.
I pick my price, not the shill.
Agreed that you pick your price and stick to it but the shill bidder gets you to your max bid and then drops out. It costs you money unless you use a snipe program to make a last minute bid.
Successful BST transactions with lordmarcovan, Moldnut, erwindoc
I only bid one time for an auction, and it is always my price.
I determine the price.
I could care less if a shill bid it up.
Don't you guys ever snipe?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I always used to snipe when I frequented ebay.... Great fun... get two screens up and wait until the last five seconds...then drop a nuclear bid (on items I REALLY wanted)....Winner, winner....
Cheers, RickO
ricko,
am I missing something here?
Somehow this a bit confusing as the snipe program will do this for you in the last 3 sec.
why have 2 screens? these are only useful if you bid manually..
That a secret.
I never noticed them. I only experience tight a$$es who want Walmart prices.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I've noticed that a lot of times, people think shilling is going on, when they really just don't understand how bidding works. I've been accused of shilling before by someone who lost an auction, but I do not shill. I've also seen some people post some "examples" here, but they weren't. It DOES happen, for sure, but not as often as some people think. Do you have an example of one you think is a shill you can share?
Sounds like you waste a ton of time on very unimportant things.
Sometimes they do, though. That is when someone accused me of shilling. I've had many buyers "back out" of a sale, which is super annoying. A few times, I would send second chance offers to runner ups, and I almost would always be accused of shilling, so I now just relist instead of offering second chances.
If that works for you, great. But many other buyers "pick" their maximum price and still prefer not to have to pay it (or any other price they wouldn't otherwise have to), just because of shilling.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Why does it matter?
The price is the price.
It matters (to me, at least) because it's dishonest.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
True, but ...
Do you value your time?
To research each auction, spend time reporting it, making a thread about it?
Time is the most valuable commodity on earth, IMO.
Bottom line, do you want that coin at your price? 99% of the time (for coins I win) the bid comes in way below (my) your price so that's all gravy as I mark up coins from my price.
Zero time wasted. Except for these silly threads.
And yet, you chose to spend your valuable time posting to it/them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'll never understand why ebay bidders don't use automated snipe apps.
They hide your max bids, allow you to change your mind and adjust bids (or kill them entirely), limit bidding wars, reduce the number of bids made (which can bring attention to hot items), and there's no need to be online for auctions that end at inconvenient times.
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Lance.
You must be aware of auctions where you suspect paid more than would have been necessary without shilling. If not, you have been remarkably fortunate. Remarkably,
Also true.
But .....
I sell on ebay.
I love ebay.
Best coin market on earth by far.
Ebay bashing threads are just silly.
Just image if Glicker was still around.
The way I look at it is .....
Someone could be shilling to raise the price. They could have put a reserve on it. They could have made it a BIN.
So basically by shilling, the seller is getting the price he or she wants. No biggie to me.
If that price is what I value that coin for or less than I buy it.
So simple, why try to make it complex?
For all practical intents and purposes, doesn't shill bidding serve the same purpose for the seller as putting a reserve on a coin? In both cases the seller is just trying to protect himself from selling a coin too cheap.
))
((Before you guys flame me, I'm just playing devil's advocate.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes, it can serve the same person. But it's hidden and deceitful.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm with @ErrorsOnCoins . It happens. On the hierarchy or criminality it is at the very bottom. It's a little dishonest but it is functionally equivalent to a reserve. It's just not worth the time to try and change it.
By the way, if you want another dishonest practice, it is two friends agreeing to stay out of each other's way in an auction. It's called collusion and is also illegal in some jurisdictions. Is there anyone here who hasn't done that?
Far more important problems out there...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Isn't that just the mandatory bid increment? Unless you were going up$1 at a time, you have no idea how much over your bid he was.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Happens to me all the time. Also happens when I have two of something and make a legitimate 2nd chance offer. People think i'm doing something untoward because they are paranoid.
I often wonder how many customers I've lost over the years because they thought I was shilling when I wasn't.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I may suspect from certain sellers (difficult to win). However that seller may have superior material where there is a lot of bid competition. One has to draw own conclusions. You could take a look at the bid history.
I use auction sniper and input my max bid or a bid to enable monitor it then input max bid if so desire. If it gets bid up higher than what I want pay just move on forgetta about it.
I use a sniping program exclusively on ebay.
Yes!
You described two things that happen to me that I can promise are not shills. I have had several buyers win, and immediately message asking to cancel the sale. It's very frustrating for sellers, but it happens. Does not mean it is a shill. I also have expensive items (mostly gold) and start almost all at 99 cents, no reserve. I do lose money occasionally on sales.. so those auctions do not mean shill either. The only way you can really figure it out is by looking at bid history, and that is not 100% guarantee either, as some people just like bidding on certain sellers auctions.
I usually spot shillers for they usually place multiple bids with a high percentage of bids placed in the seller past auctions. The problem with shills is they can raise the bid price higher than otherwise. If I
really want an item, I place a nuclear bid with a snipe and a live bid 6 seconds before the clock runs out.
I win about 85% of the time this way.
Good thread, I was just talking about this the other day. Yes, I can spot them probably 80 percent of the time. It bugs me because its not a true auction. Its a fake auction. People that say they have "their" price would love to get the coin cheaper, you know its true man!!! With shills, the price is higher. I wonder about major online coin auctions also. But for now I will assume they are honest..
I have a good one for you. I knew a seller had shillers. 1 time, I guess it was a burp in the system. My bid was outbid and then at the end my bid won at my max bid. I looked at the bid history and the shiller retracted their bid. The problem was all his underbids remained. The result was...roughly as I don't remember the exact amount...was without the shill bids I would have won the coin for around $200 but the final price was $400. I went round and round with ebay and the seller. The result was the auction was cancelled. The seller would not honor the price I would've won the coin for without the shill bidder. And I assumed ebay wasn't going to upset a major seller.
While I feel bad...Not that much longer after this happened the seller died at what most consider a young age. I often wonder...he was a big seller on ebay. I can't even remember his username now but he was in Texas.
Edit to add...the funniest part was the coin cycled 3 more times before the seller finally let it go for less than what I should have won it for! And yes...I stopped bidding on any of his listings!
I haven't used ebay in 8-10 years had a seller/buyer account and it got ridiculous. Found a place that offers free listing and whatnot, not the same exposure, and not a auction site. I charge a flat fee and never have to worry about shillers...etc. I personally don't miss it....but if it works for you Awesome !!
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value.
I agree. I don't think the OP is as skilled at spotting shilling as he thinks.
There's a local coin dealer I know who NEVER shills but lists 95% raw with low opening bids. He has that many followers.
I also have some regulars myself who routinely lowball bid on almost any foreign silver I list but almost never win because they are bottom feeders.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Its nothing but snipe bidding for me on everything I purchase off of eBay, I either get the item or I don't but usually do, either at the price I put or its under my bid and I really never overbid for anything. If I get outbid a few times on the same item a couple of times then I either adjust my price if I want it bad enough or will not try to get the item until later when it cools down a bit. Everything I have bought over the years I could pretty much start at 99 cents and should be able to make a profit if I were to sell today. It really is not like it used to be though where you could buy something, hold it and 2 weeks later make a nice profit, today you have to put the items away for awhile to make a profit. Anything I couldn't make a profit on by the time I sell everything in a few years I will hand down to my daughter. Either I will make a profit and if I don't either my daughter or her kids will.
At'e logo, Joe
I too have concerns about shills on eBay. Although eBay does "not allow" shilling, they have no way of implementing this policy. I just place my bid on eBay with <5 seconds left at my best price, so as not to give a shill bid an opportunity to jack up the bid even more. Often my first bid is my last bid with less than 5 seconds remaining.
OINK
One more thing I forgot to add... If I think its a shill or get a feeling about, I will not bid. Maybe I'm wrong this time or that, but I still won't bid. There is always another coin...
I honestly don’t worry much about shills. My strategy is to toss in a small bid at the start, just to easily track the auction. Then I manually try and snipe with a few seconds to go, assuming the price is still right. I’d say 90% of the time the item is higher then I want to pay anyway, and I just pass. I sleep well whether a shill bidder, or another legit bidder outbids me.
Dave
Shill bidding is alive and well on eBay, but I do not worry about shill bidding. I set my price and snipe at the end of the auction. If I suspect a seller of shill bidding, I will not buy from that seller because they often play other games like juiced photos, sell problem coins as problem free, list a deceptive counterfeit, etc.
sooooo much wasted time analyzing (potential) shills, just a pure waste of time, geez
I still can not understand why? why, why waste sooooo much time?
I wish I had your time.
You must already have his time. Otherwise, you wouldn't keep posting to this thread.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree on setting MY price, but the underbidder is the one who determines THE final price. If you've bought tens of thousands of coins on ebay shills have cost you tens of thousands of dollars.
I've been doing eBay since 1998 and in my experience, many if not most times repetitive bids are usually being done by someone who doesn't understand how eBay's proxy bid system works. They think they have to keep coming back in and bidding again and again, like it's a floor auction. Also it could be someone who's simply testing out a competing bidder's max. Either way, I always cringe a little when I see repetitive bids like that because to the casual observer it might look bad. If I need $x for something I'll set a reserve or do a BIN. I don't need to shill. The vast majority of the time when we put something up it's .99 start, no reserve and let it rip. Over all the years you can likely count on one hand the times when we were disappointed with the outcome.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012