Ebay has little concerns about shill and fake bidding. I've been watching one ridiculous seller who shills about every item they put up for bid. And it's even worse that they continually list their phone number in various places in the listing. Ebay sometimes removes then....and the seller puts them back in again. It's absurd. Now with Toolhaus.org gone you can't tell the crooks as easily as before.
This seller "won" 3 of thier own auctions in a row in March by shill bidding....same bidder with identical feedbacks of 497. A week later all 3 items appear for sale again in a different Ebay listings, CL and FaceBook. I point this scammer out to Ebay and they have no interest. Just the way it is. When I've sometimes asked this seller why sold item "X" was back in inventory they always reply that the buyer didn't pay. Yeah....bs.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
I have bought tens of thousands of coins on ebay.
I have Never once worried about a shill as they make Zero difference.
I pick my price, not the shill.
Agreed that you pick your price and stick to it but the shill bidder gets you to your max bid and then drops out. It costs you money unless you use a snipe program to make a last minute bid.
I only bid one time for an auction, and it is always my price.
I determine the price.
I could care less if a shill bid it up.
I agree on setting MY price, but the underbidder is the one who determines THE final price. If you've bought tens of thousands of coins on ebay shills have cost you tens of thousands of dollars.
You meant to say I made tens of thousands of dollars off of those shills as I pretty much only buy low wholesale.
The whole thing some of you do not get ..........
...... the coin is what is important here, do you want that coin at yours and the shills bid price or not?
If you need that coin then bid up for it or you do not get the coin that you want, simple.
There are many lesser coins for those who worry about shills ....
...... the coin is what is important here, do you want that coin at yours and the shills bid price of not?
If you need that coin then bid up for it or you do not get the coin that you want, simple.
There are many lesser coins for you out there for those who worry about shills ....
This isn't complicated, your profit is the sale price minus the costs of goods sold. Your sale price is not impacted at all by your cost. The higher you pay the less your profit. Just because you are still happy with the price doesn't mean you aren't losing $ due to the higher price paid.
I really want a coin and will pay $5000. I'd get if for $4000, but a shill pushes me to $4900. The shill just cost me $900 dollars although I'm still okay with the purchase price.
Would you rather pay $70 or $50 for a coin you list for $200?
@nags said:
...... the coin is what is important here, do you want that coin at yours and the shills bid price of not?
If you need that coin then bid up for it or you do not get the coin that you want, simple.
There are many lesser coins for you out there for those who worry about shills ....
This isn't complicated, your profit is the sale price minus the costs of goods sold. Your sale price is not impacted at all by your cost. The higher you pay the less your profit. Just because you are still happy with the price doesn't mean you aren't losing $ due to the higher price paid.
I really want a coin and will pay $5000. I'd get if for $4000, but a shill pushes me to $4900. The shill just cost me $900 dollars although I'm still okay with the purchase price.
Would you rather pay $70 or $50 for a coin you list for $200?
Some try to make it complicated.
It is so very, very simple.
Buy coin at my price, sell it, and a make profit.
Do not buy the coin that I like because of a (possible) shill, then I do not get to sell that coin. No profit. In fact, it is a loss because of the loss of opportunity for a profit.
When a bidder snipes, no one can react to their bids, whether there is a shill or not. Without any shills involved, there are still plenty of legitimate but unsavvy bidders who are only too eager to engage in a volley of bids and drive up the price.
My advice to the OP: start sniping! Even if the seller really is shilling, I don't think you'll have to wait 10 years to win a coin
@nags said:
...... the coin is what is important here, do you want that coin at yours and the shills bid price of not?
If you need that coin then bid up for it or you do not get the coin that you want, simple.
There are many lesser coins for you out there for those who worry about shills ....
This isn't complicated, your profit is the sale price minus the costs of goods sold. Your sale price is not impacted at all by your cost. The higher you pay the less your profit. Just because you are still happy with the price doesn't mean you aren't losing $ due to the higher price paid.
I really want a coin and will pay $5000. I'd get if for $4000, but a shill pushes me to $4900. The shill just cost me $900 dollars although I'm still okay with the purchase price.
Would you rather pay $70 or $50 for a coin you list for $200?
Some try to make it complicated.
It is so very, very simple.
Buy coin at my price, sell it, and a make profit.
Do not buy the coin that I like because of a (possible) shill, then I do not get to sell that coin. No profit. In fact, it is a loss because of the loss of opportunity for a profit.
So you are saying that if you believe you can sell a coin for $2000, and the max you are willing to pay is $800, that it makes no difference to you if you end up paying $400 or $800 (because you were shilled up), because either way you'll make some level of profit and you bought the coin "at your price."
Okey Dokey. Just like they draw it up in the econ textbooks.
@nags said:
...... the coin is what is important here, do you want that coin at yours and the shills bid price of not?
If you need that coin then bid up for it or you do not get the coin that you want, simple.
There are many lesser coins for you out there for those who worry about shills ....
This isn't complicated, your profit is the sale price minus the costs of goods sold. Your sale price is not impacted at all by your cost. The higher you pay the less your profit. Just because you are still happy with the price doesn't mean you aren't losing $ due to the higher price paid.
I really want a coin and will pay $5000. I'd get if for $4000, but a shill pushes me to $4900. The shill just cost me $900 dollars although I'm still okay with the purchase price.
Would you rather pay $70 or $50 for a coin you list for $200?
Some try to make it complicated.
It is so very, very simple.
Buy coin at my price, sell it, and a make profit.
Do not buy the coin that I like because of a (possible) shill, then I do not get to sell that coin. No profit. In fact, it is a loss because of the loss of opportunity for a profit.
So you are saying that if you believe you can sell a coin for $2000, and the max you are willing to pay is $800, that it makes no difference to you if you end up paying $400 or $800 (because you were shilled up), because either way you'll make some level of profit and you bought the coin "at your price."
Okey Dokey. Just like they draw it up in the econ textbooks.
What do the econ books say about not being able to get any product to sell because you do not want to pay the sellers (wholesale) price?
What do the econ books say about not being able to get any product to sell because you do not want to pay the sellers (wholesale) price?
No product, no sales.
You are still buying the same product, but you are paying more as a result of shilling, hence a lower profit margin.
Would you rather pay $400 or $800 for a coin you want to purchase and relist for $2000?
I hope you'd rather pay $400. You can still buy it for $800, but your profit margin just shrunk by $400.
A perfect example you laid out.
Yes, I would rather buy a coin for $800 and sell it for 2K. All day every day.
The thing is, You will not be able to get that coin for $400 so you would not get the coin.
No coin, no profit.
You seem to think the price is $400 when it is really $800.
Dang there pal. I stopped talking about this at 10:56 am. cause you said it was a waste of time. I went shopping, had lunch, watched a movie with my wife, made love, and then took a walk. Now I come back and you are still talking???????? Get that package mailed!!!!!
Got 2 minutes into my 8 minute job and was called away by the family, lol
Just now finished up, now the walk up the hill to the mailbox.
Do not really want to go fishing in the horrible red tide.
BTW its over 90 degrees here, so I am chilling in my air-conditioned man cave. Why not hang out on the coin forum as I love coins?
oh and I also did the best one of your completed tasks today
Good Lord, what is going on here... Its very simple, what @nags said:
You are still buying the same product, but you are paying more as a result of shilling, hence a lower profit margin.
PAYING MORE, PAYING MORE...….you can still bid $800 if that makes you feel good. without shills you could win it at $400.00 with your $800 bid.. With Shills you could still win at $800 yes. What would you rather buy the coin for $400 or $800?
@thebigeng said:
Good Lord, what is going on here... Its very simple, what @nags said:
You are still buying the same product, but you are paying more as a result of shilling, hence a lower profit margin.
PAYING MORE, PAYING MORE...….you can still bid $800 if that makes you feel good. without shills you could win it at $400.00 with your $800 bid.. With Shills you could still win at $800 yes. What would you rather buy the coin for $400 or $800?
To prolong this thread further...
If he can sell the coin for $2000, why is everyone so sure he could buy it at $400? Even without a shill, certainly someone would pay $500 or $600. You act like there's only one bidder and a shill on a coin allegedly worth 5x the current bid
You are also not listening to each other:
@errorsoncoins is talking about buying at $800 or not buying at $800. The rest of you are talking about buying at $400 or buying at $800.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Comments
Ebay has little concerns about shill and fake bidding. I've been watching one ridiculous seller who shills about every item they put up for bid. And it's even worse that they continually list their phone number in various places in the listing. Ebay sometimes removes then....and the seller puts them back in again. It's absurd. Now with Toolhaus.org gone you can't tell the crooks as easily as before.
This seller "won" 3 of thier own auctions in a row in March by shill bidding....same bidder with identical feedbacks of 497. A week later all 3 items appear for sale again in a different Ebay listings, CL and FaceBook. I point this scammer out to Ebay and they have no interest. Just the way it is. When I've sometimes asked this seller why sold item "X" was back in inventory they always reply that the buyer didn't pay. Yeah....bs.
You meant to say I made tens of thousands of dollars off of those shills as I pretty much only buy low wholesale.
The whole thing some of you do not get ..........
...... the coin is what is important here, do you want that coin at yours and the shills bid price or not?
If you need that coin then bid up for it or you do not get the coin that you want, simple.
There are many lesser coins for those who worry about shills ....
...... the coin is what is important here, do you want that coin at yours and the shills bid price of not?
This isn't complicated, your profit is the sale price minus the costs of goods sold. Your sale price is not impacted at all by your cost. The higher you pay the less your profit. Just because you are still happy with the price doesn't mean you aren't losing $ due to the higher price paid.
I really want a coin and will pay $5000. I'd get if for $4000, but a shill pushes me to $4900. The shill just cost me $900 dollars although I'm still okay with the purchase price.
Would you rather pay $70 or $50 for a coin you list for $200?
Don't bid at all if you suspect a shill, find another coin, another dealer, another website, another day period.
Some try to make it complicated.
It is so very, very simple.
Buy coin at my price, sell it, and a make profit.
Do not buy the coin that I like because of a (possible) shill, then I do not get to sell that coin. No profit. In fact, it is a loss because of the loss of opportunity for a profit.
When a bidder snipes, no one can react to their bids, whether there is a shill or not. Without any shills involved, there are still plenty of legitimate but unsavvy bidders who are only too eager to engage in a volley of bids and drive up the price.
My advice to the OP: start sniping! Even if the seller really is shilling, I don't think you'll have to wait 10 years to win a coin
So you are saying that if you believe you can sell a coin for $2000, and the max you are willing to pay is $800, that it makes no difference to you if you end up paying $400 or $800 (because you were shilled up), because either way you'll make some level of profit and you bought the coin "at your price."
Okey Dokey. Just like they draw it up in the econ textbooks.
What do the econ books say about not being able to get any product to sell because you do not want to pay the sellers (wholesale) price?
No product, no sales.
Do you not see the irony?
Smitten with DBLCs.
Absolutely and it is funny to me.
Maybe I am bored out of my mind today.
I do have about 8 minutes of work to do today shipping out a coin before the mailman gets here, I just can't get around to working.
Maybe when I see these threads and see soooo many people wasting sooooo much time that it in itself bothers me. I hate time-wasting.
Plus you guys are giving YN's extremely bad advice, IMO.
You are still buying the same product, but you are paying more as a result of shilling, hence a lower profit margin.
Would you rather pay $400 or $800 for a coin you want to purchase and relist for $2000?
I hope you'd rather pay $400. You can still buy it for $800, but your profit margin just shrunk by $400.
Ebay is by far the best place to buy and sell coins.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
A perfect example you laid out.
Yes, I would rather buy a coin for $800 and sell it for 2K. All day every day.
The thing is, You will not be able to get that coin for $400 so you would not get the coin.
No coin, no profit.
You seem to think the price is $400 when it is really $800.
Got 2 minutes into my 8 minute job and was called away by the family, lol
Just now finished up, now the walk up the hill to the mailbox.
Do not really want to go fishing in the horrible red tide.
BTW its over 90 degrees here, so I am chilling in my air-conditioned man cave. Why not hang out on the coin forum as I love coins?
oh and I also did the best one of your completed tasks today
Good Lord, what is going on here... Its very simple, what @nags said:
You are still buying the same product, but you are paying more as a result of shilling, hence a lower profit margin.
PAYING MORE, PAYING MORE...….you can still bid $800 if that makes you feel good. without shills you could win it at $400.00 with your $800 bid.. With Shills you could still win at $800 yes. What would you rather buy the coin for $400 or $800?
Geez, you are not paying more. You are not paying at all because you did not win. The price is $800.
Is the shill seller unethical, of course, he is.
To prolong this thread further...
If he can sell the coin for $2000, why is everyone so sure he could buy it at $400? Even without a shill, certainly someone would pay $500 or $600. You act like there's only one bidder and a shill on a coin allegedly worth 5x the current bid
You are also not listening to each other:
@errorsoncoins is talking about buying at $800 or not buying at $800. The rest of you are talking about buying at $400 or buying at $800.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Honestly, if I get a $2000 coin from any seller for $800. I would think that I have got a great deal.
I probably would have bid way more still allowing for a good margin and be thrilled to get it at $800.
If for some reason the coin ends at $400, then double bouns day
Bottom line is that I would never know if the coin was shilled or not as I do not care and never check.
I just know that I will double my money on that particular coin.
Many times I do look at the bids to determine exactly who is my competition is on certain coins
Sounds like a lot of dealers here trying to out-deal other dealers.
Rather comical.
Ambush predator is so much more my style than persistence hunting.
I don't watch or bid before my nuke-snipe.
Shilling is part of the game.
My Saint Set