Strange anomaly or PMD on a trade dollar

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TwoSides2aCoin
TwoSides2aCoin Posts: 45,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I wanted to say PMD , except LIBERTY isn't obliterated and the metal above ribbon is extruded, even in the ribbon. Any ideas ?



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  • jayPem
    jayPem Posts: 4,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Mmm... odd.

  • airplanenut
    airplanenut Posts: 22,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I agree with your assessment that a chop should have obliterated LIBERTY, especially the low parts of the mark, which are flat spots on the chop and go deepest into the coin.

    With that said, is the coin genuine? The mint mark in particular looks mushy to me. If a counterfeit die were created with the chop already in it, and then LIBERTY was fixed, you could get the chop and a normal design around it. I can't think of how else it could happen.

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  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Chop, although different than usual as it was incused into the face of the punch.

    The punch pushes down into the coin, detail in the areas indented into the chop (raised on the counterstamp on the coin) don't even touch the punch surface unless the punch is hit hard enough.

    The first stage of the counterstamp is that impacted details are simply flattened and not obliterated. If the punch is deep enough then underlying details will be lost.

    On your chop, it is slightly at an angle, and part of it does obliterate the detail. The "I" in Liberty is mostly obliterated, for example.

  • Jimnight
    Jimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Chop

  • Kliao
    Kliao Posts: 5,802 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Chopped

    Collector
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  • tradedollarnut
    tradedollarnut Posts: 20,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Extremely scarce date to find chopped

    Early Dollar Set
  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The chop does appear to have been an incuse chop mark, and that could account for the anomaly ....it does not look as if the letters in liberty were tooled after the chop....interesting piece. Cheers, RickO

  • DDR
    DDR Posts: 1,686 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Very interesting. If legit (and I can't tell from the pic) you have quite a find. As TDN said, those are extremely scarce.

    David
    Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
    Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
  • ChopmarkedTrades
    ChopmarkedTrades Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It certainly appears to be a chop mark. If genuine, it's one of the toughest dates to find in the series with such marks; it took more than a decade for an example to appear at public sale a few years ago.

  • jayPem
    jayPem Posts: 4,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    What's happening in the area above her knees?
    Is it normal for the denticles to be so different on the obverse compared to the reverse?

  • jayPem
    jayPem Posts: 4,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Interesting also that the scratch across the waist is quite deep in the wheat and gown but very faint on the arm where it should be heaviest...like the die is scratched.
    Or maybe smoothed out just on the arm?
    Why?
    Why would there be a scratch that deep on the die itself? Wouldn't it have been polished out?

  • Namvet69
    Namvet69 Posts: 9,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Were the mm letters stamped separately? cause they are not aligned. And could the planchet have been stamped before the dies struck? Peace Roy

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  • TradesWithChops
    TradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭
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    Do you have it in hand?

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • vplite99
    vplite99 Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That is odd.

    Vplite99
  • TennesseeDave
    TennesseeDave Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020 5:46AM
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    @jayPem said:
    What's happening in the area above her knees?

    I noticed that as well. Kind of looks like the area was worked to hide something.

    Trade $'s
  • jayPem
    jayPem Posts: 4,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Two sides has dropped the mic.

  • TwoSides2aCoin
    TwoSides2aCoin Posts: 45,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I was working all day. I have access to coin. The obverse rim appears to have a bit of damage and almost looks like a cud. Will submit coin and follow up to this thread. Am thinking XF details, genuine and chopped.

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