Coin geek Crackouts, NGC to PCGS
logger7
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a5WJPkBkQo
This is a small group of coins, clearly he found some good candidates. But why was NGC so strict?
7
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People bash them, but they can be tight... I've seen this before, many times.
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“MS63”
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CG got lucky, he usually gets hosed on these. Maybe his selection is better now.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Old school grading. I remember back in the 1990's 99% of coins graded no higher than 65. A coin grading 66 was a holey grail coin. 67's were unheard off.
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That gold 1903 sure looks better than a 63....Cheers, RickO
This coin needs to go to CAC....Gold coin, gold foil and gold bean....TRIFECTA!!!
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My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
That's not a hologram.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You're right. It is a label made of similar material.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Still with PCGS and NGC and to a lesser degree Anacs and Icg had graders who agreed with a grade that was too conservative. There is always a "reason" behind it. But the business manager is giving orders to grade in a more strict way, I have been surprised recently at how strict NGC can be.
IMO PCGS got those grades right, especially the MS64 fb Mercury dime which is not a gem.
It's actually a hot pressed gold foil logo.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Anyone else think that the 1882 Morgan might have previously resided in an old small white ANA/ANACS holder?
Jeff
I submitted four PCGS Carson City Morgans in MS66 or better to NGC for crossing over. I will post the pictures first (apologies for the poor quality) and then the results, which I just received today. Any guesses?
Probably the nicest could upgrade, the plus and the last one.
That's what I thought too. At the very minimum, I was expecting them to cross to the same grade. Not a chance:
Sgree. I have seen this again and again.
Imo NGC grades have been very conservative for around a year now.
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My favorite is PCGS, I won't deny that, but NGC is definitely a good outfit. I collect and keep both grading services in my collection, new and old holders. If raw, it's going to PCGS, but if already slabbed, I just tend to keep it in the holder it came in.
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Both are great companies.......I don't mind my world coin collection being NGC/PCGS graded......better than raw!
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WOW! Some of the pics here depict top notch, clean field coins.
Pete
I feel like ngc is very strict with many things these fays compared to our host. I've acquired some MS 61 and 62 Buffalos from NGC that would graded way higher 5 10 years ago etc
It looks gem to me.
I’m curious as to why you would try crossing a coin in a PCGS holder to NGC? Were you hoping they would upgrade?
That's a legitimate question for which I have no legitimate answer. I started with NGC by using their ebay service to review raw coins and built an NGC Carson City registry. I also favor their holders. And yes, I was hoping for an upgrade.
I also favor their holders.
this is a new one, could you explain why because I could explain what's not to like about the NGC capsule.
What don't you like about the NGC capsule (sic)? Just curious.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
For once, NGC holders scratch very easily. Even the coated ones. As their surface is flat all over, contrary to the PCGS, the area of the coin can scratch if one is not very careful. That is rather annoying.
NGC slabs have a raised rim that protects the face of the slab when it's slid across a table top. While PCGS slabs also have a raised edge, the coin viewing area on PCGS slabs is raised and is also susceptible to scratching and scuffing. Slabs are not indestructible and need to be treated with some care. I cringe when I see coin dealers toss slabs around at coin shows.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
this is mainly directed at the older style, pre-prong holders: they obscure too much of the rim/edge of the holdered coin, they don't allow as much light to the coin as possible with a clear/opaque holder, smaller coins get "swallowed" up in them, they scratch/scuff too much, all but the largest coins have a tendency to tilt and I don't like the feel of the holder in my hand.
I have said as much before, the best designed holder in my opinion is that used by ICG.
The old ICG slabs were a lot better; the newer ones look less professional especially when you are housing high value coins. PCGS has a best slab.
And as for the attempted crossovers in the holder, they will never admit parity. That is why you have to submit raw.
The NGC shells before the prong generation were not very good optically, having some funky texture to them that shows up under magnification, got scratched up a lot, and are difficult to polish. The newer ones have sporadic problems with bulging, which makes viewing and photography more difficult.
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Are you saying that NGC is biased and bigoted? I don't think that is allowed by the rules here.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This was my answer too. When you buy coins in holders, inevitably the holders are scratched, if you try to polish an NGC holder, it leaves hairlines that are easily noticeable. A PCGS one ends up looking better when polishing. For me it is simple as that.
Best, SH
IMO, it would be hard to avoid a subconscious bias when you are a grader for one company and you are grading a coin in another companies holder. So it goes both ways, it is not bigotry, it is simply what it is and just part of the grading equation. HST, 90% of the 100 or so NGC coins I have crossed to P did so at grade or with a slight bump. Crack outs have been even, some up, some down, some the same. Not really too much difference between P and N except marketing approaches...... Both are great companies and vital to numismatics.
Best, SH
I have one in a 66 holder, CAC, too, and I put them side by side. At first glance, they looked about the same, but after closer inspection, the 66 was a tad better. I say it would grade 65 currently, indeed I agree with the gem statement.
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Fun video to watch. Thanks!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I have an intense dislike of the white prongs. They are a bad distraction to me.
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Any idea what causes the bulging ? I have one that is bulged but am afraid to reholder as it is high grade proof Ike that I don't want thumbed up. Is bulging considered off quality that they would reholder at no charge ?
They use a different plastic; I had a group of their certified coins get distorted/distended in the holders due to being in a car.
+1
Especially when opaque. A forum member had a coin with a nasty rim ding. The gash was hidden until it was too late.
+1
I'll also add the thicker slab makes it harder to get light onto smaller coins which is another way that NGC holders (especially the pre-pronged ones) are optically inferior.
When I sent in some ICG and Anacs coins to PCGS on crossover, they crossed them all, some of the Anacs coins even upgraded. To me that shows objectivity and fair mindedness.
Per my earlier post in this thread, just received my NGC Crossover submission with the dreaded red stickers on three of four:
Good luck getting upgrades on crossovers. Did you submit those as cross at same grade? Grading company can scrutinize the coin for minor issues and how nice it is for the grade. If they were cac stickered they'd have a better chance. They have few incentives to cross them.
Which of these two statements would you like to go with? Both posted the same day but seem to suggest different positions.
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Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Yep, submitted them as Min Grade = Current PCGS Grade (or better). Honestly, was trying to build an all NGC set but not at the risk of a lower grade.
Logger7 has it right. There is little incentive for each TPG to cross coins from the opposite service....especially on coins under say $500 each. Who wants to be known as the service that crosses ALL of the other guy's coins? No one. That's a lousy strategy. Each prefers to be known as the "tougher" service. This is why for the past 20+ yrs that each service crosses <50% of the other guy's coins. And if you take that logically, it's really impossible. If it were done scientifically in a double blind study the sum should be 100%....like 40/60 for 45/55 or 35/65. It can't be 40/45. Then layer in that CAC stickers well under 50% of the coins from each of them. The net effect would seem to be...they cannot agree to even within 50% of each other....a horrible result if true.
If you REALLY want to know what each service thinks of your coin - in other words the real grade. Crack it out. Submit at least 2 times raw to each one...sometimes up to 5X until you get a majority opinion from each service.....2/2, 2/3, 3/4, 3/5..... Then stop. Compare each service to the other one. That's about the only way a fair comparison can be made. And it's costly....though informative and educational. I suggest that in your main field of study, you try it out at least once.
When I look at Heritage's auction results, PCGS coins sold for substantially more than NGC coins most of the time. Much less of a "Gap" on Ebay imo.
I bet if they were raw coins you might have had better luck.
One was on ICG and Anacs coins sent to PCGS for crossover, the other was on PCGS coins sent to NGC for upgrade or cross at grade.
What brought you to the conclusion that one TPG is objective and open minded and another TPG has no incentive to cross? Both firms want great coins in their brand of plastic so there is always an incentive to cross.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.