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Reunited!

cardinalcardinal Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 8, 2020 3:34PM in U.S. Coin Forum

The Unique “Intans” Libertas Americana Medal Cliche; Provenance: From the John W. Adams Collection. Acquired from our 2012 ANA sale, August 2012, lot 4094. Earlier, from Augustin Dupre to Alexandre-Theodore Brongniart to Benjamin Franklin on January 23, 1783; Wayte Raymond; and our (Stack's) sale of the John J. Ford, Jr. Collection, Part XIV, May 2006, lot 286.

Regarding this cliche, on January 23, 1783, Brongniart wrote to Franklin:

"I have the honor of sending to Mr Franklin two new proofs of the medal, noting that the head is not quite as perfect as it should be, that the serpents held by the child will be larger and better drawn; moreover the engraver put 'intans' instead of 'infans' and this spelling mistake shall be corrected.

"I have the honor of reminding Mr Franklin that he had promised what he shall have inscribed on both sides at the bottom of the medal, and this matter alone prevents its completion."

While this communication between Franklin and Brongiart has been known for many years, the original letter itself has not been seen for perhaps more than a hundred years. Now, they are reunited!

I was able to locate the original letter in the archives of the American Philosophical Society and was granted a photo-duplicate, as seen above.

Comments

  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 11,002 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is so cool!!

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2020 8:37AM

    A lot of great history and provenance with this piece. The letter mentioning the error is a great diagnostic connecting it to our country's history. I wonder if we can find out who the engraver mentioned in the letter was. Here's the provenance list as bullets.

    • Augustin Dupre
    • Alexandre-Theodore Brongniart
    • Benjamin Franklin
    • Wayte Raymond
    • John J. Ford, Jr.
    • John W. Adams
    • Cardinal

    Here are the TrueViews:

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Amazing, so well done Martin

    Latin American Collection

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,248 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice

  • HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fabulous!

  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 6,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Incredible. Thank you for sharing.

    Many happy BST transactions
  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice!

  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,837 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Awesome

  • sparky64sparky64 Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is as good as it gets.
    Congratulations and thanks for showing.

    "If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"

    My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,822 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And it feels so good.

  • mustangmanbobmustangmanbob Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26J0uDIGErM

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow just wow. That’s how you do it

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2020 7:56PM

    @cardinal Great medal and letter! Amazing story for putting these two together.

    I saw that the slab has the "Dupre-Franklin-Cardinal" provenance but no provenance is listed on Cert Verification yet. Do you know if it will be added at some point?

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,390 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    A lot of great history and provenance with this piece. The letter mentioning the error is a great diagnostic connecting it to our country's history. I wonder if we can find out who the engraver mentioned in the letter was. Here's the provenance list as bullets.

    • Augustin Dupre
    • Alexandre-Theodore Brongniart
    • Benjamin Franklin
    • Wayte Raymond
    • John J. Ford, Jr.
    • John W. Adams
    • Cardinal

    You'd think with a slab that big and a provenance that impressive, they could find a way to list all of those names.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    @cardinal Great medal and letter! Amazing story for putting these two together.

    I saw that the slab has the "Dupre-Franklin-Cardinal" provenance but no provenance is listed on Cert Verification yet. Do you know if it will be added at some point?

    It's on the label, but it's any guess if the provenance appears on the cert verification.

  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @airplanenut said:

    @Zoins said:
    A lot of great history and provenance with this piece. The letter mentioning the error is a great diagnostic connecting it to our country's history. I wonder if we can find out who the engraver mentioned in the letter was. Here's the provenance list as bullets.

    • Augustin Dupre
    • Alexandre-Theodore Brongniart
    • Benjamin Franklin
    • Wayte Raymond
    • John J. Ford, Jr.
    • John W. Adams
    • Cardinal

    You'd think with a slab that big and a provenance that impressive, they could find a way to list all of those names.

    I thought so too! This is was I had requested for the label:

    Apparently this was all there was room for!

  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Time to seriously think about writing another book, focusing on the Libertas Americana medals.

    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow... what a great historical marriage of a medal and a document. While not a fan of most provenance, this one is awesome....Cheers, RickO

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,873 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You do stuff at a high level

    11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set

  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sonorandesertrat said:
    Time to seriously think about writing another book, focusing on the Libertas Americana medals.

    How about these?

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are these books available?

    Latin American Collection

  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:
    Are these books available?

    They will be shortly, just going through a final review and updates.

  • SilverProofQuarter1883SilverProofQuarter1883 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭✭✭

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/7r/4gw5r3vtf84x.jpg
    I think at the bottom there are drafting lights from when the die was being created

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I look forward to being able to pick one up!

    Latin American Collection

  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cardinal said:

    @Boosibri said:
    Are these books available?

    They will be shortly, just going through a final review and updates.

    Great! I'm in for one of each (fine Corinthian leather editions).

    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • SilverProofQuarter1883SilverProofQuarter1883 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ow yea @cardinal, that’s where later the commemorative dates are later added. this Medal must be a test die 👍

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Felicidades!

    This is awesome!

    Thanks for sharing!

  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Minerva-child-lion symbolism (or perhaps Athena, since the goddess is depicted wearing a Greek helmet) is simply brilliant. I never tire of looking at it. Franklin died before the first federal coinage appeared. Did he advocate for any particular design types for the nation's first coinage?

    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sonorandesertrat said:
    The Minerva-child-lion symbolism (or perhaps Athena, since the goddess is depicted wearing a Greek helmet) is simply brilliant. I never tire of looking at it. Franklin died before the first federal coinage appeared. Did he advocate for any particular design types for the nation's first coinage?

    I'll have to look into that. Since Franklin died in 1790, the Mint Act of 1792 came after his death.

  • TwobitcollectorTwobitcollector Posts: 3,934 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for sharing

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  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 9,270 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Man, I like your thoroughness. The provenance is very nice. Thanks for sharing. Peace Roy

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  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,625 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Amazing piece, and it must be absolutely wild owning an item that once belonged to Benjamin Franklin!

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2020 12:25PM

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/7r/4gw5r3vtf84x.jpg

    Fantastic design! The only thing that could possibly improve it would be crude images of shovels, engraved in an entirety different style, scale, and perspective, awkwardly squeezed in behind all the heads!
    😉

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2020 10:04PM

    Your exquisite passion WOW'd me to no end B) BRAVO!

    @cardinal said:

    @Sonorandesertrat said:
    Time to seriously think about writing another book, focusing on the Libertas Americana medals.

    How about these?

  • AhrensdadAhrensdad Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭

    Wow! Thanks for sharing!

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