Options
OK, Copper experts... 1864 Two Cent - Straight piece? Surfaces look normal? Back from our host!
mark_dak
Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭✭✭
OK, I'm not a old copper expert but took a flyer on this piece. Too good to pass up, I think... Actually a little darker than picture shows. Maybe a RB.
Copper experts... 1864 Two Cent - Straight piece? Surfaces look normal and ready for slab? 
2
Comments
It could be the lighting, but the color does not look natural to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm also a little suspicious, especially with what appears to be surface roughness and the streaky obverse. Hard to say in those photos, so I would not claim even 90% certainty, but it looks like it might have been dipped and retoned.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I know it's said that dipping will not work on copper. Toning is fairly even across the entire coin but not sure if the "spotty" toming is what one might suspect. It is lighter than what the coin looks like in hand. Overall I'd say the tone and color might be normal but not sure about evenness of tone.
I have no opinion either way on originality but my natural skepticism toward higher end collectable coins makes me think that if a coin belongs in a slab then it would already be in one.
Silver dip won't work the same on copper. There are, however, copper and brass dips. You can also lighten the color with acids like vinegar or lemon juice. The hard part is retoning it. Although time will eventually do that.
I once had an AU large cent that had been dipped in acid to make it (fake) red. I toned it with a chemical concoction I whipped up in lab. It ended up looking a lot like the photo of that coin. Again, I make no guarantees from the photo, but the color pattern looks suspicious.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I once got fooled on a Lincoln that has a look and color very much like the one you posted, I'm thinking this has a low chance of getting a straight grade.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Here's one sold at Heritage that has a similar look. Even has a sticker to boot. Just seeing that even but "spotty" toning.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/two-cent-pieces/two-and-three-cents/1864-2c-large-motto-ms65-red-and-brown-pcgs-cac-pcgs-population-437-39-ngc-census-584-101-cdn-400-whsle-bid-fo/a/131942-25081.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515#
The color looks slightly off to me.
Not horribly so, but it does look "done."
I like it and think it will straight grade.
The court jester does not play, but gently pulls the strings…
Color in pictures is rarely correct. I'd love to see this one in hand. It looks very nice but I'd reserve judgment.
I'd probably send it in for grading but brace for the worst.
Lance.
I like it and think it will straight grade.
The court jester does not play, but gently pulls the strings…
I’m more concerned about the lighter color areas than I am about the uneven color. And I think the color looks noticeably different from that seen on the linked coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Tough to tell, but my thought is that it was a mint state R&B coin, that someone worked on to make it appear all red again.
Not at all the same to my eye. It's not the small scale spottiness. It's the lighter color streaks below the shield and near the date.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It has to be seen in person and under proper lighting for grading. That said, it is another raw coin that should be in a slab by now. My prediction is that it will get a details grade for cleaning. It will prove to be another "great buy" that wasn't.
Based on the two cent pieces I have seen...and held... I would question this based on the picture. Just looks as if it has been treated/dipped ....Cheers, RickO
To me, based on what I see on my computer monitor, there is a world of difference between the coin in the OP and the one in the Heritage auction, regarding color.
There is a small toning dot underneath the A in STATES (and the E in the motto), but the rest of the coloration looks suspicious.
What type of holder was the (raw) coin in when it was purchased? I'm very curious.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
IMO: "Market acceptable."
Bought it several years ago in an Air-tite
Gathering up some for submission. Think I might take a shot on this one. Consensus is I will not be happy with the result. Waiting on my local dealer to submit. I cant get beat too bad on it. Dont have much invested
Right, could be a sign of trouble
Point well taken
These streaks are caused by a non-homogeneous alloy mixture that reacts differently to the environment. Coins with extreme, well-defined patterns are called "woodies."
The fact is that this piece was probably cleaned at one time and has a bunch of planchet flaws on its obverse should not keep it from being straight graded. Of course this is just an opinion based on the posted images.
Thanks Insider,
All the surface features are exaggerated in the pictures. Color is somewhat darker maybe RB. Details are as outstanding and sharp as they appear. Had to drop some items off today to my box. Picked this one up to take some better pictures tonight if I can get some to come out
I like it very much. Nice coin and I hope it straight grades.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
From the Pictures and description the Reverse looks gradable but the Obverse does not.
The color looks odd, but it may be due to lighting. The roughness patches near the date and wreath are areas I'd focus on if the coin was in hand...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Lousy Samsung Galaxy camera! Color just slightly darker and a bit more reddish tone than this. Original post shows better detail. Based on all the comments, it may or may not grade straight or hopefully I got my first "Woodie".
Thank you for all the input - makes the forum a worthwhile use of time.
Surface looks messed with in my opinion.
I’m confused. Previously, you posted “Color is somewhat darker maybe RB.” I took that to mean you thought there was a decent chance the coin would be designated as “RD”. In these new pictures, “RD” would look to be out of the question.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Red and Brown
pumpkin orange/pink -> cleaned
hard to tell from pictures (not just yours, but most) what you have
LCS finally got this out to our host and back after all the COVID issues. I sent in a few - this one ended up coming back with a straight grade. My usual mea culpa for lousy pictures...
Nice!
It actually looks like a completely different coin in the holder photos. Maybe you were just too close with the camera? The color looks completely even in the slabbed photos and not at all uneven like the original photos.
Congratulations!
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
???
Edited to explain my question marks: The post I quoted was somehow showing before the prior post with the photos...
Smitten with DBLCs.
I stay away from red copper. Look but don't buy.
Awesome you got in a 65RB holder. Good eye.
BHNC #248 … 140 and counting.
Good job on the successful submittal!
Here's your True-View
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
now slice that pie thin so there's enough to around.
Nice! Congrats on the grade!
Thanks all, pretty happy with most of what I had sent in. Especially happy with this one because I generally don't buy old copper and my knowledge is limited. Just couldn't pass this one up at the price it was offered.
Mark
nice coin
Nothing not to like about that coin and the grade assigned. Congrats!
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Very nice- the original set of pictures looked much flatter and led me to think recolored. Glad it was just the photos
Collector, occasional seller
congratulations.
Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set
successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), DesertMoon, Downtown1974, Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Proofcollection, Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)
It's nice when you take a chance on something and it doesn't come back to haunt you. Great looking piece.
Successful transactions with: JimTyler, Morgan13, ChangeInHistory, LukeMarshall, Old_Collector, basets , MICHAELDIXON, Waverlycoins, dsessom, privatecoin, SurfinxHI, ZoidMeister, giorgioll, Lakesammman, Twobitcollector, Cazkaboom, Dscoin, Shrub68, CoinHunter4, Cladiator, coinbuf, Elkevvo, ChrisH82, WindyCity, Kccoin, NumisOxide, Meltdown, blaircountycoin, blue62vette, greencopper, Kliao, Downtown1974, BankerBob56, coinlieutenant, cucamongacoin, FranklinFactory, scooter25, erwindoc, bigjpst, and others.
Congratulations!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
That's what I thought too.