Carbon spots on CAC’d gold

@Collect4fun said:
I’ve been looking at a few CAC’d coins that have carbon spots. Obviously, JA is ok with them. Do they say something about the originality of the surface? I wasn’t sure if dipping removed them.

Carbon spots won't just rinse off. An acidic chemical dip might remove them, but probably not cleanly so there would be a lighter discolored spot left behind.

If the coin is totally original, it could still have a lot of eye appeal with spots. Of course there are some buyers, a significant percentage who would never buy copper spot gold let alone carbon spots which tend to be smaller.

Copper spots on gold are perfectly fine, save your $$$, skip the cacs

@Collect4fun said:
I think they are part part of the history and uniqueness of the coin. During my learning process, I’ve heard more than once that some people don’t want spots. I’m not sure if it’s personal preference or that the spots get worse over time.

It’s typically a matter of the spots being distracting, not concerns about them getting worse.

No spot = I buy

Copper spot = I buy if I cannot find a “no spot.” Doesn’t generally slow me down too much.

Carbon spot = I wait until one of two above is available. Why spend $ on something that will nag me regardless of any slab or sticker.

If it’s bullion then it doesn’t matter.

My buying opinion.

@Realone said:
Copper spots are cool, its what I look for on a gold coin.

I just don't like the gold spots on my copper.

This is my best guess on carbon.
There appear to be tiny bits embedded in the gold surrounded by discoloration.
I actually think the coin is rather nice looking.

https://www.mintstategold.com/us-20-saint-gaudens-1925-pcgs-ms66-11999.html?utm_source=collectors&utm_medium=listings&utm_campaign=products

That isn't carbon on that 1925 Saint. Those are copper spots. They can be anywhere from light brown to black.

Is this carbon?...Maybe a small copper spot?

1925-D MS65 6/2 Simpson (non CAC in case you were wondering)

@ReadyFireAim said:

@PerryHall said:
That isn't carbon on that 1925 Saint. Those are copper spots. They can be anywhere from light brown to black.

Did you see the tiny little round things in the center of each spot?
I've never seen anything like it before.
Interesting.

Possibly a tiny ball of copper? (I thought it might be carbon)

It's not unusual for a copper spot to be much darker in the center and gradually getting lighter around the edges. Sometimes a tiny spot of debris on the surface of the coin starts a chemical reaction with the copper alloy that radiates out from the center with the color gradually getting lighter as it moves away from the center where the tiny spot of debris resides.

I believe they do say something about the originality of the coin, but for me copper and carbon spots will bother me. JA may be okay with them, but I am not. I am easily distracted by what I don't like and my eyes seem to be drawn to them when they are on a coin ruining the look of the coin for me. As far as removing them, I have experimented with some gold bullion and removing the dark spots tend to leave a lighter spot behind. To me it looks better, but still bothersome and I would not do it to a coin that has more than bullion value.

Donato

Not a big fan of copper or carbon spots on gold. I always pass on such coins. Just a personal hangup, I guess.

Dave

@HighRelief said:

@MFeld said:

@HighRelief said:
PCGS will downgrade your gold coin if it has copper spotting.

I don’t believe that’s necessarily the case. I’ve seen a fair number of copper-spotted PCGS gold coins whose grades did not appear to be negatively impacted. As just one example, I viewed an MS66 saint with a number of conspicuous copper spots. And it did not look like it would have been graded higher, without them.

That's very interesting.
No mention of the note on the cert page
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/11605850

@HighRelief said:

@MFeld said:

@HighRelief said:
PCGS will downgrade your gold coin if it has copper spotting.

I don’t believe that’s necessarily the case. I’ve seen a fair number of copper-spotted PCGS gold coins whose grades did not appear to be negatively impacted. As just one example, I viewed an MS66 saint with a number of conspicuous copper spots. And it did not look like it would have been graded higher, without them.

I’m glad I said “not necessarily the case” and not “never the case”. 😄

Some spots are relatively innocent and some are The Kiss of Death (like the one posted just above). That thing has horrible eye appeal and I don’t care what the grade is. There are plenty of others to chose from.

As far as what JA likes...... in my book he’s allowed to have some personal preferences. Not everyone has to agree.

Okay, lots of talk here about spots. I think I need some clarification. What exactly is a carbon spot and what is a copper spot? And are they noticeably different? Different from some random debris on the surface? Do any of the 99.999 gold pieces ever spot? Funny how when we talk about silver, we call them "milk spots". And all these spots are totally different from tarnishing...right? I had a pocket piece ASE for a few years, didn't really give it any special attention, left it out on the bureau for a few years....that silver turned into all shades of dark browns/blacks, harsh tarnish, I'll never do that again!

Here's my understanding. There is a carbon spot on this San Diego silver commem. It's a bit over Liberty's belly button. As you can see, it's pretty innocuous and the coin got a green sticker. (There's another small one under Liberty's left armpit.)
Carbon spots are the color of carbon........ black. Funny thing, in reality they're probably not carbon. A tiny bit of spittle on the surface of a silver coin will sometimes do this, and sometimes it's a bit of something else that settled on the surface and caused a little area of corrosion (toning). Sometimes it's a small impurity that was incompletely mixed in the alloy. Maybe once in a while it's even a bit of actual carbon????

There is a milk spot on this Peace dollar. It's on Liberty's neck, left of "TRVST". Again, it's pretty minimal and did not preclude a green sticker. Perhaps, perhaps this is a bit of dip residue, but it looks like a typical milk spot to me:

There is a small copper spot on this double eagle. It's very small, but it's to the right of Liberty's eye, at the very edge of the hair curl. If you look with a loupe, it's the color of copper and is not black.

Here's a coin with a much larger copper spot. This time it's on the reverse, in "MER" of "AMERICA". This coin wasn't worthy of a green sticker........ but it did get a gold sticker.

Finally, here's a Dan Carr Peace dollar strike that grew a couple of ugly spots after I bought it. If you look very carefully, there's a minuscule little black speck at the center of these growing spots. Some impurity was transferred from the die or host coin...... or who knows what. There's also a small lint strikethrough near "UR" in "PLURIBUS".

Thank you @BryceM That was well answered! I found that very informative. You even went so far as to post photos...thanks again!~

I wouldn't expect to see any damage from a carbon spot (perhaps from the removal method itself, however), but would not be surprised to see a color difference.

This was posted about a year before CAC. @saintguru didn’t seem to mind copper spots on older gold.

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