You are drawing an awfully fine line to half justify behavior that may well be illegal in many states. Whether you want to term it pre or post sale, the fact is that the seller canceled a legal sale that they COULD have completed out of sheer greed. While you are right that there is nothing that can be done about it, that doesn't really excuse it. There is little point in getting upset about it, but there is no question what the seller did is ethically, morally and possibly legally wrong.
I'm in no way justifying the seller's behavior. It was wrong and should be penalized by ebay. I understand the OP's reaction.
The point that I'm making is that these seller's exist just as do other types of bad sellers and buyer's have to realize and accept the risk that goes with dealing with them. Buyers on ebay have to first assign risk whether it be a pre-sale, a chinese seller, or a seller with poor feedback. Nothing said in this thread changes the fact that the seller was pre-selling by ebay's definition (the one that counts for this discussion) merchandise not in his possession (a buyer risk factor) and this type seller has and will always be present on ebay. Knowing the seller actually had a confirmation from the mint reduces the associated risk of the buyer not getting the item, but as the OP found out it does not eliminate the added risk of buying a pre-sale.
@thebigeng said:
Human behavior never disappoints.... I think it was wrong for them to cancel. Maybe they did not get through the Mints process and did not get a confirmed order. Still, they should have been honest about that and communicated that to you.
The OP said that his BIN’s were for confirmed orders and that in one case, after canceling, the seller re-listed at a higher price.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Now up to 6 of 8 cancelled BIN sales...all in the $300-$550 range...for a 75% renege/fraud rate. All on orders that were indicated as "Confirmed" post sale with Mint order numbers....
And no, eBay wasn't always like this. I've been a seller on their platform since 1999 and people used to honor deals where they were making a decent profit over issue (if they entered into a BIN agreement). This is just utter insanity now.
And PS...not a single seller has provided documentation that their order was post-cancelled by the Mint...which I would actually understand...as it's happened to me and the rest of us...at least that would be bit more kosher.
If I got my hands on one I would've just set up an auction for it. Let the bidders decide how much they want to buy it for. Chances are you could sell it higher through an auction, especially if a couple people get the blood flowing and anxiety takes over their good judgement.
You are drawing an awfully fine line to half justify behavior that may well be illegal in many states. Whether you want to term it pre or post sale, the fact is that the seller canceled a legal sale that they COULD have completed out of sheer greed. While you are right that there is nothing that can be done about it, that doesn't really excuse it. There is little point in getting upset about it, but there is no question what the seller did is ethically, morally and possibly legally wrong.
I'm in no way justifying the seller's behavior. It was wrong and should be penalized by ebay. I understand the OP's reaction.
The point that I'm making is that these seller's exist just as do other types of bad sellers and buyer's have to realize and accept the risk that goes with dealing with them. Buyers on ebay have to first assign risk whether it be a pre-sale, a chinese seller, or a seller with poor feedback. Nothing said in this thread changes the fact that the seller was pre-selling by ebay's definition (the one that counts for this discussion) merchandise not in his possession (a buyer risk factor) and this type seller has and will always be present on ebay. Knowing the seller actually had a confirmation from the mint reduces the associated risk of the buyer not getting the item, but as the OP found out it does not eliminate the added risk of buying a pre-sale.
@BBN said:
If I got my hands on one I would've just set up an auction for it. Let the bidders decide how much they want to buy it for. Chances are you could sell it higher through an auction, especially if a couple people get the blood flowing and anxiety takes over their good judgement.
the buyers of these will also be the ones that wait a couple days to pay, and would want to cancel if they found one cheaper.
Just to follow up further on this thread...I've now had 2 MORE BIN cancellations...and the latest one was a real hoot...
On a $500 confirmed order from Friday...not Thursday...but the day after the initial Mint sale. And the seller sent a note today THAT THEY'VE JUST DECIDED TO KEEP [my bought and paid for] COIN...my ellipses added!
So they're getting the coin...but they've just decided not to honor a sale contract.
@Weather11am said: @Coinflip —Out of curiosity, got any stats on people coming through with orders?
In my case, it's just about 50/50. But, of course, that includes some people that were legitimately shut out. It also includes people that decided to "keep it" and at least one that went ahead and sold it through eBay and one that actually listed it on BST.
@RichR said:
Just to follow up further on this thread...I've now had 2 MORE BIN cancellations...and the latest one was a real hoot...
On a $500 confirmed order from Friday...not Thursday...but the day after the initial Mint sale. And the seller sent a note today THAT THEY'VE JUST DECIDED TO KEEP [my bought and paid for] COIN...my ellipses added!
So they're getting the coin...but they've just decided not to honor a sale contract.
That's because they are amatueurs (collectors?) not dealers. A dealer would value his reputation and possible future business.
Besides which, the price is climbing quickly and incrementally such that I would imagine even the big dealers are going to find a lot of orders unfilled.
@MilesWaits said:
Besides which, the price is climbing quickly and incrementally such that I would imagine even the big dealers are going to find a lot of orders unfilled.
You don't even have to be a big dealer. I offered $500 out of the gate on these, more than almost anyone and before anyone else had made an offer. I had more than 20 people "locked in" at that price. Some of them had even locked in at $350 and I had voluntarily moved the price up to $500 last Monday for even the $350 people. When the eBay price got over $600 on Thursday/Friday, I suddenly had fewer commitments. LOL
These are the same type of people who are cancelling their sales trying to get an extra $50 or $100. People always talk about dealers negatively. LOL. I think it's just a people thing, not a dealer thing.
The good news is that I now know who to lock in next time and who to not bother with. Apparently "guarantees" aren't really guarantees if there's $50 to be made. But I would have been paying $500 even if they were selling for $300 now. Because reputation matters to me.
Sorry to hear. I suspect that Pinehurst is going to have the same issue in probably going to be canceling a fair amount of their orders as they wrongfully assumed that this flood of newbies and non-newbies is going to hold true to their word.
@MilesWaits said:
Sorry to hear. I suspect that Pinehurst is going to have the same issue in probably going to be canceling a fair amount of their orders as they wrongfully assumed that this flood of newbies and non-newbies is going to hold true to their word.
That's why I haven't listed any myself. I would LOVE to just sell them and reduce my risk. But I don't trust them until I have them in hand.
I finally figured out how to leave negative feedback against their account after they cancel.
Do tell...I'd love to rattle some of their chains here!
Me too!
These are the excuses I've gotten back (I only messaged those re-listing additional ERP after my cancellations):
-I ordered 2 but one was canceled and the other 1 is for my personal collection.
-Yours was canceled by the Mint but I'm selling for a friend here.
-I didn't know the value when I brought it and its worth over $2k now
The best lame excuses/lies so far...I've had 9 sales cancelled:
- I decided to just keep it (the item you actually purchased and paid for 4 days ago)
- The order (for which I showed a Mint confirmation) was cancelled (like poof,,,gone!)
- I moved and my credit card was rejected (you might want to get on that)
- My wife sold it by accident (that sneaky witch!)
I finally figured out how to leave negative feedback against their account after they cancel.
Do tell...I'd love to rattle some of their chains here!
Me too!
These are the excuses I've gotten back (I only messaged those re-listing additional ERP after my cancellations):
-I ordered 2 but one was canceled and the other 1 is for my personal collection.
-Yours was canceled by the Mint but I'm selling for a friend here.
-I didn't know the value when I brought it and its worth over $2k now
Let's heard yours!
@OPA said:
Have any $600 - $650 BIN's been cancelled? Those might be next in line.
Add the $659-$899 ones to that too. Multiple auctions on eBay >$1,000 and several more BINs in the $1,000-$1,200 range today. PCGS PF70s are now fetching around $2k+ (give or take a couple of hundred) or more for special labels. PCGS has certified 141 so far (87 in PF70; 54 PF69). If those PF70 prices hold, there will be more pieces submitted and a strong market pressure raising the prices of the raw coin especially if the distribution is skewing towards the PF70 grade.
Ask your peer forum members the same question. $500 initially was unheard of yet someone wisely offered it, immediately, and we know how that price is changed, now.
@RichR said:
OK...as everyone was frantically trying to place orders for the Enhanced Eagle yesterday, I was on eBay literally vacuuming up BIN CONFIRMED orders in the $250-$400 range...several containing screenshots of their Mint order confirmation pages.
Well...anywhere from 5-12 hours after Mint sales ended and the prices had spiked to over $500+...I had many of these sellers simply "cancel" their orders/BIN contracts with me and refunded my CC...with 1 special individual then even reposting the coin for sale at a higher price!
Meanwhile, I apparently have no option to leave feedback or ding their "perfect sales records".
WHEN DID THIS BECOME A THING? I've honored every eBay sale I've ever made...despite later price gains.
Do I have any options to smear these losers? My blood is literally boiling!
Make a list of those who have done that to you and next time don’t offer the flip guarantee purchase to them. They will lose the money down road and you will figure out who is worth their word. Sad behavior indeed.
@MilesWaits said:
Ask your peer forum members the same question. $500 initially was unheard of yet someone wisely offered it, immediately, and we know how that price is changed, now.
There are MANY forum members who have followed through on their promise. We shouldn't focus all our attention on the negative. I agree with @Kkathyl I now know who to lock with and who not to bother with. I actually turned people down who were willing to lock at $500 because I had already locked up to 80 coins. Next time, the people who backed out go to the back of the line. [Yes, some of those people did get shut out. But at least 3 people did not get shut out, they backed out.]
But a bit more than half of the forum members who locked are still planning on carrying through with the commitment even though they didn't get the coins in hand yet and the price is going wild.
If the price holds up through my sale of these coins, I intend to kick more money back to those honorable folks.
Ebay Sellers often do not follow through with a sale. Appears the level of buyer disgust is directly related to the dollar amount of lost opportunity for the buyer. And, rightfully so.
Still I'd rather have a seller not honor a sale and refund my money than have a seller take my money and disappear.
Lesson for all here is don't count on a score until it arrives in the mail.
UPDATE: Although 9 of 10 of my BIN sales (ranging from $300-$575) were cancelled...ONE HONORABLE SELLER HONORED THEIR $300 BIN...and I just received the coin! So there are still good people out there.
The Mint box had been opened but everything inside was intact and in good shape...so I'll excuse that.
I made a commitment to two buyers on here, both for multiple coins. Both on the low end of what they are now worth. As long as my buyers hold up (looks like they should for the most part), I will be fulfilling the commitments I made to them. I did not commit as many as I thought I would get, which is good, in case a few of my buyers back out. Both of my buyers have agreed to do a little bonus since I am following through with my commitment, which I appreciate!
@RichR said:
UPDATE: Although 9 of 10 of my BIN sales (ranging from $300-$575) were cancelled...ONE HONORABLE SELLER HONORED THEIR $300 BIN...and I just received the coin! So there are still good people out there.
The Mint box had been opened but everything inside was intact and in good shape...so I'll excuse that.
Well hey, at least you got one! I literally just had mine cancel. I bought it on the 14th as a confirmed order for $325. He seemed legit, remained in contact, then this morning a full week later I get the cancellation. He said he's "out of stock, or product is damaged" I've messaged him a couple times, and he refuses to reply. I even told him that if he would have talked to me I would have paid him more. Nothing. The crummy part is that this was a Christmas gift for my grandfather who has been collecting ASEs since they launched. He's an avid collector and had his heart set on this. He wasn't able to get one from the mint, he's too old to know how to do all of that, and was so upset until I told him I found one... And now i get to break his heart again and tell him "sorry, the guy cancelled. No coin papa." Such is life.
i had a dealer with 10k feedback purchase a PR69 PCGS coin off me.
Now since there were no stock photos of 69 I used a pr70 BUT I listed in the title & 3 times in the description that it was PR69 NOT PR 70
So he buys it and messages me immediately..."Im expecting a PR70"
Obviously he wants to open a case later - if it was an honest mistake and he thought it was a 70 why would he message me.
So its not just newbies that are scamming people.......
@engmtic said:
i had a dealer with 10k feedback purchase a PR69 PCGS coin off me.
Now since there were no stock photos of 69 I used a pr70 BUT I listed in the title & 3 times in the description that it was PR69 NOT PR 70
So he buys it and messages me immediately..."Im expecting a PR70"
Obviously he wants to open a case later - if it was an honest mistake and he thought it was a 70 why would he message me.
So its not just newbies that are scamming people.......
Are you sure the buyer isn't posting the same thing about this transaction? You could have easily blacked out the number on the slab.
@engmtic said:
i had a dealer with 10k feedback purchase a PR69 PCGS coin off me.
Now since there were no stock photos of 69 I used a pr70 BUT I listed in the title & 3 times in the description that it was PR69 NOT PR 70
So he buys it and messages me immediately..."Im expecting a PR70"
Obviously he wants to open a case later - if it was an honest mistake and he thought it was a 70 why would he message me.
So its not just newbies that are scamming people.......
Are you sure the buyer isn't posting the same thing about this transaction? You could have easily blacked out the number on the slab.
I did not think that was necessary as:
1) I listed the title as PR69
2) the description said PR 69
3) I wrote "photo is stock"
4) I wrote Its PR69 NOT PR70
If he really thought it was a PR70, why the need to instantly message me hes expecting a PR70 - that would be obvious. Clearly he read the description, understood I was selling a PR69, but realized he could open a case later against me pretending "Oh I was under the clear understanding that it was a PR70 and I'm totally confused why I got a PR69".
Also the price he paid clearly told him he wasn't paying for a PR70.
I think I'm in the right on this one. I'm pretty fair and I consider other people's point of view but overwhelmingly this reeks of bad intent.
@engmtic said:
i had a dealer with 10k feedback purchase a PR69 PCGS coin off me.
Now since there were no stock photos of 69 I used a pr70 BUT I listed in the title & 3 times in the description that it was PR69 NOT PR 70
So he buys it and messages me immediately..."Im expecting a PR70"
Obviously he wants to open a case later - if it was an honest mistake and he thought it was a 70 why would he message me.
So its not just newbies that are scamming people.......
Are you sure the buyer isn't posting the same thing about this transaction? You could have easily blacked out the number on the slab.
I did not think that was necessary as:
1) I listed the title as PR69
2) the description said PR 69
3) I wrote "photo is stock"
4) I wrote Its PR69 NOT PR70
If he really thought it was a PR70, why the need to instantly message me hes expecting a PR70 - that would be obvious. Clearly he read the description, understood I was selling a PR69, but realized he could open a case later against me pretending "Oh I was under the clear understanding that it was a PR70 and I'm totally confused why I got a PR69".
Also the price he paid clearly told him he wasn't paying for a PR70.
I think I'm in the right on this one. I'm pretty fair and I consider other people's point of view but overwhelmingly this reeks of bad intent.
Playing Devil's Advocate: How do you know he didn't buy it off the picture on his phone, get the confirmation email and ONLY THEN realize what the listing said so he contacted you?
I'm not saying you had evil intent, but you opened yourself up to the confusion by using a photo of a 70.
@SeattleSlammer said:
I have no sympathy for you. You were going for the easy flip. Sellers realized they priced too low and were just giving away money.
You’re thinking “these suckers priced these way too low!”
Seller’s thinking “dayum I can’t just give them away now can I?”
Don’t even start whining about the principle of the thing when your principle was dubious at best.
That's a little harsh. Why is "flipping" a dubious principle? He didn't steal the coins from a sick widow. He bought them legally in an internet marketplace at a price that ANYONE could have paid for them. The fact that he was going to resell them is NOT dubious, it is commerce.
@SeattleSlammer said:
I have no sympathy for you. You were going for the easy flip. Sellers realized they priced too low and were just giving away money.
You’re thinking “these suckers priced these way too low!”
Seller’s thinking “dayum I can’t just give them away now can I?”
Don’t even start whining about the principle of the thing when your principle was dubious at best.
That's a little harsh. Why is "flipping" a dubious principle? He didn't steal the coins from a sick widow. He bought them legally in an internet marketplace at a price that ANYONE could have paid for them. The fact that he was going to resell them is NOT dubious, it is commerce.
It’s also commerce for the seller to cancel the order when allowed. There is (rarely) a free lunch.
@SeattleSlammer said:
I have no sympathy for you. You were going for the easy flip. Sellers realized they priced too low and were just giving away money.
You’re thinking “these suckers priced these way too low!”
Seller’s thinking “dayum I can’t just give them away now can I?”
Don’t even start whining about the principle of the thing when your principle was dubious at best.
That's a little harsh. Why is "flipping" a dubious principle? He didn't steal the coins from a sick widow. He bought them legally in an internet marketplace at a price that ANYONE could have paid for them. The fact that he was going to resell them is NOT dubious, it is commerce.
It’s also commerce for the seller to cancel the order when allowed. There is (rarely) a free lunch.
That is legally dubious. There are reasons when a cancellation is allowed, but there is an actual sales contract in place. Especially for those sellers with confirmed orders from the Mint who then RELISTED the coin at a higher price, the action is unethical and possibly illegal. No such condition applies to the buyer, in this case, who paid LIST PRICE for the item.
I wonder how many of them realize that when you cancel an order on Ebay that you get a defect on your account. If a big dealer cancels dozens of orders, it could end badly for them.
@coin22lover said:
I wonder how many of them realize that when you cancel an order on Ebay that you get a defect on your account. If a big dealer cancels dozens of orders, it could end badly for them.
You also potentially have the PayPal fee problem.
I can't imagine many actual dealers canceled orders. It would destroy your reputation. You would be better off losing money on the coins.
@SeattleSlammer said:
I have no sympathy for you. You were going for the easy flip. Sellers realized they priced too low and were just giving away money.
You’re thinking “these suckers priced these way too low!”
Seller’s thinking “dayum I can’t just give them away now can I?”
Don’t even start whining about the principle of the thing when your principle was dubious at best.
That's a little harsh. Why is "flipping" a dubious principle? He didn't steal the coins from a sick widow. He bought them legally in an internet marketplace at a price that ANYONE could have paid for them. The fact that he was going to resell them is NOT dubious, it is commerce.
It’s also commerce for the seller to cancel the order when allowed. There is (rarely) a free lunch.
That is legally dubious. There are reasons when a cancellation is allowed, but there is an actual sales contract in place. Especially for those sellers with confirmed orders from the Mint who then RELISTED the coin at a higher price, the action is unethical and possibly illegal. No such condition applies to the buyer, in this case, who paid LIST PRICE for the item.
We could probably go back and forth all day on this. The OP complaining (with a righteous tone nonetheless) about the orders being cancelled is dubious at best. He knew he was ripping them. The seller realized the large price gap and decided NOT to take it in the shorts. So? Move along; no need to post complaining about your failed rip.
While your logic is sound.....the extraneous variables here are most telling. Using your argument, is there ANY dollar amount that might make you change your mind? That is, let’s say the OP came across a listing for a coin priced at $50 but worth $5000. Does the OP ever have an ethical duty to notify the seller of the discrepancy? Or should he just rip away?
Comments
I'm in no way justifying the seller's behavior. It was wrong and should be penalized by ebay. I understand the OP's reaction.
The point that I'm making is that these seller's exist just as do other types of bad sellers and buyer's have to realize and accept the risk that goes with dealing with them. Buyers on ebay have to first assign risk whether it be a pre-sale, a chinese seller, or a seller with poor feedback. Nothing said in this thread changes the fact that the seller was pre-selling by ebay's definition (the one that counts for this discussion) merchandise not in his possession (a buyer risk factor) and this type seller has and will always be present on ebay. Knowing the seller actually had a confirmation from the mint reduces the associated risk of the buyer not getting the item, but as the OP found out it does not eliminate the added risk of buying a pre-sale.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
"BIN Order Cancellation,,,When Did This Become a Normal Thing???"
I'd bet this is less a normal thing than a buyer deciding not to pay for a winning bid or a buy it now order.
Just sayin'.
The OP said that his BIN’s were for confirmed orders and that in one case, after canceling, the seller re-listed at a higher price.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld I'll say it again....Human behavior never disappoints.... I think it was wrong for them to cancel.
A big 10 4 to the above statement.
Now up to 6 of 8 cancelled BIN sales...all in the $300-$550 range...for a 75% renege/fraud rate. All on orders that were indicated as "Confirmed" post sale with Mint order numbers....
And no, eBay wasn't always like this. I've been a seller on their platform since 1999 and people used to honor deals where they were making a decent profit over issue (if they entered into a BIN agreement). This is just utter insanity now.
And PS...not a single seller has provided documentation that their order was post-cancelled by the Mint...which I would actually understand...as it's happened to me and the rest of us...at least that would be bit more kosher.
Just saying...imagine if StubHub allowed this type of crap with tickets? You'd have fistfights erupt at the stadium!
Is StubHub legit? or just added value for ticketmaster after they keep half the best seats?
Same ol same ol locked in 500orders, the low ones have stories, the high ones always come thru
RAD#306
If I got my hands on one I would've just set up an auction for it. Let the bidders decide how much they want to buy it for. Chances are you could sell it higher through an auction, especially if a couple people get the blood flowing and anxiety takes over their good judgement.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
@Coinflip —Out of curiosity, got any stats on people coming through with orders?
Chinese seller??? Kinda racist aren't you?
(know what you meant, but the new guys may not)
the buyers of these will also be the ones that wait a couple days to pay, and would want to cancel if they found one cheaper.
You are correct. I meant to say a seller in China.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
Just to follow up further on this thread...I've now had 2 MORE BIN cancellations...and the latest one was a real hoot...
On a $500 confirmed order from Friday...not Thursday...but the day after the initial Mint sale. And the seller sent a note today THAT THEY'VE JUST DECIDED TO KEEP [my bought and paid for] COIN...my ellipses added!
So they're getting the coin...but they've just decided not to honor a sale contract.
In my case, it's just about 50/50. But, of course, that includes some people that were legitimately shut out. It also includes people that decided to "keep it" and at least one that went ahead and sold it through eBay and one that actually listed it on BST.
So...far only 1 of 10...and that 1 is still an open question. So a 90% fail rate from BIN's on Days 1 & 2
I have NEVER experienced anything like this EVER!
And every one of those sales ranged from $300 on up to $550...so these were for immediate multiples on initial investment.
That's because they are amatueurs (collectors?) not dealers. A dealer would value his reputation and possible future business.
So many newbies have been invited in to this party, including by a few members here, and the result can include some chaos.
Besides which, the price is climbing quickly and incrementally such that I would imagine even the big dealers are going to find a lot of orders unfilled.
You don't even have to be a big dealer. I offered $500 out of the gate on these, more than almost anyone and before anyone else had made an offer. I had more than 20 people "locked in" at that price. Some of them had even locked in at $350 and I had voluntarily moved the price up to $500 last Monday for even the $350 people. When the eBay price got over $600 on Thursday/Friday, I suddenly had fewer commitments. LOL
These are the same type of people who are cancelling their sales trying to get an extra $50 or $100. People always talk about dealers negatively. LOL. I think it's just a people thing, not a dealer thing.
The good news is that I now know who to lock in next time and who to not bother with. Apparently "guarantees" aren't really guarantees if there's $50 to be made. But I would have been paying $500 even if they were selling for $300 now. Because reputation matters to me.
Sorry to hear. I suspect that Pinehurst is going to have the same issue in probably going to be canceling a fair amount of their orders as they wrongfully assumed that this flood of newbies and non-newbies is going to hold true to their word.
Happened to me about 8 times. I finally figured out how to leave negative feedback against their account after they cancel.
https://tinyurl.com/wbuh7ba (Search PCGS on ebay)
That's why I haven't listed any myself. I would LOVE to just sell them and reduce my risk. But I don't trust them until I have them in hand.
Do tell...I'd love to rattle some of their chains here!
Me too!
These are the excuses I've gotten back (I only messaged those re-listing additional ERP after my cancellations):
-I ordered 2 but one was canceled and the other 1 is for my personal collection.
-Yours was canceled by the Mint but I'm selling for a friend here.
-I didn't know the value when I brought it and its worth over $2k now
Let's heard yours!
Have any $600 - $650 BIN's been cancelled? Those might be next in line.
The best lame excuses/lies so far...I've had 9 sales cancelled:
- I decided to just keep it (the item you actually purchased and paid for 4 days ago)
- The order (for which I showed a Mint confirmation) was cancelled (like poof,,,gone!)
- I moved and my credit card was rejected (you might want to get on that)
- My wife sold it by accident (that sneaky witch!)
Add the $659-$899 ones to that too. Multiple auctions on eBay >$1,000 and several more BINs in the $1,000-$1,200 range today. PCGS PF70s are now fetching around $2k+ (give or take a couple of hundred) or more for special labels. PCGS has certified 141 so far (87 in PF70; 54 PF69). If those PF70 prices hold, there will be more pieces submitted and a strong market pressure raising the prices of the raw coin especially if the distribution is skewing towards the PF70 grade.
Has anyone actually received one they purchased for less than 500.00 off Ebay...All I hear is about all the orders that were cancelled....
The excuses are hilarious. The alleged lack of honestly and morals is sad and disturbing.
Ask your peer forum members the same question. $500 initially was unheard of yet someone wisely offered it, immediately, and we know how that price is changed, now.
Make a list of those who have done that to you and next time don’t offer the flip guarantee purchase to them. They will lose the money down road and you will figure out who is worth their word. Sad behavior indeed.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
There are MANY forum members who have followed through on their promise. We shouldn't focus all our attention on the negative. I agree with @Kkathyl I now know who to lock with and who not to bother with. I actually turned people down who were willing to lock at $500 because I had already locked up to 80 coins. Next time, the people who backed out go to the back of the line. [Yes, some of those people did get shut out. But at least 3 people did not get shut out, they backed out.]
But a bit more than half of the forum members who locked are still planning on carrying through with the commitment even though they didn't get the coins in hand yet and the price is going wild.
If the price holds up through my sale of these coins, I intend to kick more money back to those honorable folks.
Ebay Sellers often do not follow through with a sale. Appears the level of buyer disgust is directly related to the dollar amount of lost opportunity for the buyer. And, rightfully so.
Still I'd rather have a seller not honor a sale and refund my money than have a seller take my money and disappear.
Lesson for all here is don't count on a score until it arrives in the mail.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
UPDATE: Although 9 of 10 of my BIN sales (ranging from $300-$575) were cancelled...ONE HONORABLE SELLER HONORED THEIR $300 BIN...and I just received the coin! So there are still good people out there.
The Mint box had been opened but everything inside was intact and in good shape...so I'll excuse that.
I made a commitment to two buyers on here, both for multiple coins. Both on the low end of what they are now worth. As long as my buyers hold up (looks like they should for the most part), I will be fulfilling the commitments I made to them. I did not commit as many as I thought I would get, which is good, in case a few of my buyers back out. Both of my buyers have agreed to do a little bonus since I am following through with my commitment, which I appreciate!
Well hey, at least you got one! I literally just had mine cancel. I bought it on the 14th as a confirmed order for $325. He seemed legit, remained in contact, then this morning a full week later I get the cancellation. He said he's "out of stock, or product is damaged" I've messaged him a couple times, and he refuses to reply. I even told him that if he would have talked to me I would have paid him more. Nothing. The crummy part is that this was a Christmas gift for my grandfather who has been collecting ASEs since they launched. He's an avid collector and had his heart set on this. He wasn't able to get one from the mint, he's too old to know how to do all of that, and was so upset until I told him I found one... And now i get to break his heart again and tell him "sorry, the guy cancelled. No coin papa." Such is life.
i had a dealer with 10k feedback purchase a PR69 PCGS coin off me.
Now since there were no stock photos of 69 I used a pr70 BUT I listed in the title & 3 times in the description that it was PR69 NOT PR 70
So he buys it and messages me immediately..."Im expecting a PR70"
Obviously he wants to open a case later - if it was an honest mistake and he thought it was a 70 why would he message me.
So its not just newbies that are scamming people.......
Are you sure the buyer isn't posting the same thing about this transaction? You could have easily blacked out the number on the slab.
I did not think that was necessary as:
1) I listed the title as PR69
2) the description said PR 69
3) I wrote "photo is stock"
4) I wrote Its PR69 NOT PR70
If he really thought it was a PR70, why the need to instantly message me hes expecting a PR70 - that would be obvious. Clearly he read the description, understood I was selling a PR69, but realized he could open a case later against me pretending "Oh I was under the clear understanding that it was a PR70 and I'm totally confused why I got a PR69".
Also the price he paid clearly told him he wasn't paying for a PR70.
I think I'm in the right on this one. I'm pretty fair and I consider other people's point of view but overwhelmingly this reeks of bad intent.
Playing Devil's Advocate: How do you know he didn't buy it off the picture on his phone, get the confirmation email and ONLY THEN realize what the listing said so he contacted you?
I'm not saying you had evil intent, but you opened yourself up to the confusion by using a photo of a 70.
I have no sympathy for you. You were going for the easy flip. Sellers realized they priced too low and were just giving away money.
You’re thinking “these suckers priced these way too low!”
Seller’s thinking “dayum I can’t just give them away now can I?”
Don’t even start whining about the principle of the thing when your principle was dubious at best.
That's a little harsh. Why is "flipping" a dubious principle? He didn't steal the coins from a sick widow. He bought them legally in an internet marketplace at a price that ANYONE could have paid for them. The fact that he was going to resell them is NOT dubious, it is commerce.
It’s also commerce for the seller to cancel the order when allowed. There is (rarely) a free lunch.
That is legally dubious. There are reasons when a cancellation is allowed, but there is an actual sales contract in place. Especially for those sellers with confirmed orders from the Mint who then RELISTED the coin at a higher price, the action is unethical and possibly illegal. No such condition applies to the buyer, in this case, who paid LIST PRICE for the item.
This whole thing is GREED and nothing but GREED!
I wonder how many of them realize that when you cancel an order on Ebay that you get a defect on your account. If a big dealer cancels dozens of orders, it could end badly for them.
You also potentially have the PayPal fee problem.
I can't imagine many actual dealers canceled orders. It would destroy your reputation. You would be better off losing money on the coins.
We could probably go back and forth all day on this. The OP complaining (with a righteous tone nonetheless) about the orders being cancelled is dubious at best. He knew he was ripping them. The seller realized the large price gap and decided NOT to take it in the shorts. So? Move along; no need to post complaining about your failed rip.
While your logic is sound.....the extraneous variables here are most telling. Using your argument, is there ANY dollar amount that might make you change your mind? That is, let’s say the OP came across a listing for a coin priced at $50 but worth $5000. Does the OP ever have an ethical duty to notify the seller of the discrepancy? Or should he just rip away?