Help me understand the new reverse proof frenzy
matt_dac
Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
I think it’s a beautiful coin and a nice ounce of silver, but I don’t get the frenzy. There were fewer Apollo 11 gold proofs minted thus far last time I checked for example and I think much more interesting and unique though I know a much higher price point.
Why the excitement? I’m seeing high flip attempts ($400-$600).
Not trying to rain on any parades, just curious.
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Whew. I feared no one would start a new thread on this topic.
Agree with the OP.
I don't pay attention to moderns at all, and apparently
missed an opportunity for a quick and profitable flip.
I spent 5 minutes buying and selling Luckin Coffee stock this week, and
the proceeds of that will allow me to buy a few of these in the aftermarket.....or better yet,
a nice Large cent
“Why the excitement?”
Contrived scarcity/rarity, combined with the opportunity (for those who are so inclined) to flip for a quick and significant profit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I expect that there are lots of silver eagle collectors out there and this is probably a must have.
Lowest ASE proof ever minted?
Just a guess
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Quick high profit. New key date of the series.
Collector
87 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 53 members and counting!
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The apollo one off is a commemorative. The mintages of modern gold commemorative are much lower than silver eagles. This is a low mintage coin in a highly collected series.
Is the question serious?
MONEY
There are a lot of silver eagle collectors, but only about 44 complete documented PCGS proof silver eagle registry sets, meaning they have the 1995W in some grade. There are more at NGC and a lot who don't publish their sets. Still maybe only several hundred are serious enough to collect and keep the full set of proof eagles.
Since the 1995W sells for around $3,000 in PR69 and $10,000 in PR70. I can see why some set collectors are willing to pay $1,000 to $3,000 to keep one of these S-Mint coins in 70. But what about the 29,000+ coins just purchased just to sell at some profit? I think eBay is the one who makes the most on these.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
And PayPal probably not so much.
Low supply (i.e.-lowest mintage for the series) coupled with high demand (i.e.-quite a few people collect ASEs or like the unique appearance of the coin) equals a relatively high price in a free market.
You nailed it 'contrived rarity'. 30,000 coins will always exist in high grades making this one not even scarce. These are only rare compared to 1964 proof sets of which maybe only half of original mintage are left, maybe only 1/10th of one percent are proof 69 and even smaller numbers have 2 sided cameo contrast.
The coin market is about making money and this seems a way to do it to those who play the buy and flip game.
I wonder how many actual collectors of this series will drop out because they become unhappy with "contrived scarcity" issues such as this?
I believe it was a national mental health test.
The original selling price is really low too for something that there are only 30,000 of. That helped increase demand.
Nailed it.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
The flippers make sense to me...
The people paying the flippers do not.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I really think that this "finish" business is overrated, particularly at the flip prices of 400-600, etc. Still, at the entry price of 66 USD it was worth trying for it.
Not that anyone cares, but have all the scarce ones xpt the 08/07 reverse bunko & as a collector none slabbed xpt I had to try for the "70" on the 95W (failed at 69 tho).
Well, just Love coins, period.
I'm with you ………. no interest here at all. But I don't collect ASE's either.
The Silver Eagle series apparently has many die hard fans. The "key" thus far has been the 1995-W proof coin of which 30,125 was minted. Even with reduced demand and in a declining market, the 1995-W still regularly fetches $2k+ for average coins with huge premiums for the PF70 coins. The mintage on the new issue is 30,000, which will make it the lowest of the series and lower than the 1995-W. Many think this will soar in price like the 1995-W so it has become a speculator's and flipper's dream.
$400-$600 is actually pretty cheap and there are multiple prices in the $700+-$1000 range for sold items. A no reserve eBay auction broke $800 recently.
How are we doing... early dementia or full blown out of it?
Are any of them around melt?
It's like the beanie baby fad for coin collectors. Mint has to come out with a new edition every so often. My guess is that guy on the PM board that sends all the old coins to the smelter will probably be melting these down 5-6 years from now.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
It (our hobby) is a fad. Society curiously peeks in every once in a while (typically after a carefully hyped up limited edition comes out) , and a large contingency of followers usher in, if only to enjoy the fruits of passion for a moment in time. Profit takers.... the nerve
From one to many others: OK, Boomers.
The mint did not charge enough. If a $60 coin is being resold on the secondary market for $500 the mint blew it and should have charged a lot more.
This is quite different but analogous. Look at Super Bowl tickets. I think the NFL charged $1000 for a ticket last year and they were being resold on the secondary markets from $2500 to $5000. Obviously the NFL left a lot of money on the table and if they had charged $2500 they would have hurt the secondary market. Less people would have paid $2500 trying to flip their ticket and the game still would have been a sellout and the NFL would have grossed more.
Or the Mint could have simply produced more.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The Silver Eagle is a tough coin for me to get into as its basically a tribute piece to a former design that hit it out of the park. To me, the reverse of the Eagle is the pinnacle of basic, boring and underwhelming. Doesn't really go with he walking Liberty design. I can't really get down on it any more than that and disparage the folks that are totally invested and into it. I say go for it. I love what they did with the Walker in gold.
Its kinda weird for me watching people get in line that don't collect these just to turn around and stick it , uh hum, flip it, to another fellow collector for money. On some level I guess one can justify it being ok or part of collecting heritage or whatever, I just think its negative behavior. There are a lot of things that happen in the coin world that I don't dig or participate in, this is just one of them. Still, nobody is twisting any arms, its just something I watch from a distance.
The next one should be $125 and 15,000 minted.
Til we get down to ONE for the sum of the national debt.
Brilliant?
Of course.
I was here for the 2009 UHRDE ordering fiasco and resulting mint fulfillment contractor's loss of the contract.
What was the mood when the "contrived scarcity/rarity" of the 1995W Proof Silver Eagle became realized? How does it compare to the turmoil of 2009 and now 2019? Because I wasn't here then.
(l8-)>>
Well my post went Poof not sure why. I guess if you change or add to many times it goes bye bye.
So here goes again;
But all I can say is my $70.00 coin. Once it arrives on Tuesday will be packed into another box to be Encapsulated, graded, along with a newly encapsulated COA. When they come home they will go into the cold, dark vault forever never to be seen again. But I am requesting a “Trueview shot” so I can admire it digitally.
THEN SHE GOES POOF GONE FOREVER!
I feel for many collectors who truly want it for their collection, but also understand the business aspect of it. It is what it is. Don't like the market price don't buy it. Like complaining that everyone should be able to afford a Mercedes.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
It is the Pappy Van Winkle of numismatics in terms of how it’s distributed.
Supply and demand. Next question?
Weren't there around 30,000 Proof 1960 small date cents produced? They were around $50 almost 60 years ago. Now, not so much.
I hope no one tries breaking into your place when you’re around.
Not always. The 2017-S enhanced uncirculated Lincoln cent (225k) and the 2018-S reverse proof Lincoln cent (200k) can often be found for less than $20 each.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Later estimates were around 100,000 proof sets, with about 2 million uncirculated. As I recall, in 1964 prices reached $65 for the small date proof set and $450 for uncirculated rolls. In today's dollars that would be around $500 for the proof set and $3500 for an uncirculated roll. Today, of course, they sell for much less.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
“Help me understand the new reverse proof frenzy”
...something old, something new, something borrowed, and something blue...
Old = regular ASE
New = ERPR ASE
Blue = Wasn’t able get it for Mint price
Borrowed = Had to take a loan to get it on the secondary market
Waiting for one to become available post frenzy......Cheers, RickO
.> @ricko said:
Ha ha - widely available now
I saw someone posted one on my local FB asking $895. Wow....those crazy kids!
@matt_dac ...Yeah...that is what I mean by 'post frenzy'....in six months or so, it should die down....Probably get one for around $100 or so....Cheers, RickO
this is bigger then the big mac tokens from a while back
I got me some of those wonder if I should send some in for Grading?
A routine Proof Silver Eagle will run you $50+ and there are 400,000 of them every year. The silver eagles with mintages of 100,000 (2011, 2012) all sell for $100 or over. At 30,000 this coin will be multiple hundreds for the foreseeable future, though probably cheaper than today.
Yes, but not as big as the Simpsons watches. BTW, I have a complete set that can be yours for five figures smile: !
@jmlanzaf....You are probably right....However, that is when I may start to look around...if the Mint does not start selling the returns that people will send back because they are not 70's.... Cheers, RickO
maybe anacs, im not really sure...….
I don't see that happening. 69's are bringing around $700 on eBay, which is about the current price for unslabbed ones.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
