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I don't get it. Can someone please explain??
DiggerJim
Posts: 406 ✭✭✭✭
Why would CAC put a green sticker on a coin like this? And second of all why is there a "Low Ball" set registry??
I'm almost here a year now and I thought after a year I might see the attraction, but I don't.
I also I don't want to get anyone angry who collects these coins. This is just me asking another ignorant question.
Thanks
DiggerJim
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IMO Lowball sets and Everyman sets were designed to allow collectors without deep pockets to participate in the registry. Then the Competition was too much for the deep pockets to ignore so they started paying huge premiums for the lowest grades and AU 58+ coins driving the regular collectors out. I guess I’m not competitive enough to see the interest either but I do like the look of the coin posted.
As far as why CAC would sticker it the answer is easy. Because it meets their criteria for the grade assigned.
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I guess the better question, in my mind at least, would be why would CAC not sticker this coin? If it's problem-free and solid or upper end for the grade then it seems like it would meet the requirements for CAC. It's not up to them to tell folks what to submit, just like it isn't up to PCGS to tell folks not to submit coins that might not be worth the cost of certification. Regardless, in this case it's a $1,500 coin that has a previous auction sale of in excess of $8k and a lot of folks feel better when they have more opinions on higher priced coins. As for the "Low Ball" registry sets, well, folks like what they like.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I spoke with JA about CAC stickers on lowball coins, and he said it comes down to if it's a nice coin for the grade, even if the grade itself isn't really a nice one. A sticker does not assume the coin is destined for a lowball set, where the slicker the better, so a sticker on a FR2 does not mean it's closer to PO1 than AG3. It simply means that he'd honor his bid price for a FR2 if he were buying them.
The subject coin looks like a wholesome FR2, and should sell for more than a ratty one. I wouldn't bother sending it to CAC, but someone figured they could extract a few more bucks out of it with the sticker.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
If a CAC sticker supposedly drives up prices, would it help collectors with shallower pockets if PCGS had a lowball non-CAC set?
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Good "for the grade" coin.
So if the "deep pockets" already drove out the regular collector that puts them back where they were before it all started. $8000 is huge money to pay for that coin not to mention even $1500. I'm just starting out and I can understand competing in the set registries. I completed an eight coin Kennedy silver set with a grade of 66 and 21st place and I am already looking to upgrade instead of focusing on my other sets. But spending that kind of money makes me think the average person should pick their niche and get the best coins they can afford.
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Collectors collect things that interest them....some really like the low ball coins....Many like tarnished coins and some do not.... I do not criticize anyone's interests....I do make my own interests known...In case anyone wants to 'help' me... Cheers, RickO
In the case of the key date 1893-S Morgan in the op, lowball does not really mean the same as it would with a common date dollar. A Fair 2 is a legitimate graded coin and is significantly more desirable than a damaged coin of similar detail.
+1
That slab and sticker have NOTHING to do with lowball sets.
So for a lowball collector would a gold CAC make this a more or less valuable coin?
That's a key date coin best bought certified. There are probably thousands of AG3 or lower 1916-D dimes because it is the only way to sell them.
I have to assume a gold CAC is a bad thing for a lowball.
You'd get many astute observations and comments if you'd have stuck CAC into your subject line.
P.S. Add 1893-S and you'll get 2 pages by Sunday. Just sayin.
Should CAC have a sticker for “C” coins without problems?
CAC doesn't affect the set grade, does it?
This.
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Although I don’t collect ‘lowballs,’ I do find the idea of collecting coins in graded condition that have been well-used in their intended purpose interesting. Lots of history encased in a plastic slab.
If you don't get it, you don't get it. It's okay not to understand why other people collect what turns them on.
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Collectors will collect what they like and that IS what collecting is all about. Collecting what makes you happy, no matter how strange it may seem to others.
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No, beans, labels such as first strike (for now at least) have no affect on registry points. Of course things change and who knows if these will be incorporated into the registry in the future.
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Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
This is one of the things I asked JA related to the conversation I mentioned above. While he couldn't think a time this ever happened, he said that a gold sticker would mean the same thing it means on a higher grade coin. The coin is solid for the next grade up. CAC does not pay attention to set scoring for lowball sets when considering how to sticker a coin. And since set scoring doesn't care about CAC stickers, it really won't matter. In practice, a PO1 with a gold sticker might sell for less to a purist who wants his PO1 to be more on the edge of unidentifiable, but that would have to actually happen before it could be verified.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
I agree that for registry sets a CAC would apparently not matter, but for anyone actually looking at the slab in person I would think a gold CAC would be detrimental.
Maybe for lowballers CAC needs a sticker for coins that are a grade less than what was shown on the slab.
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--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.JA will sticker a coin he is willing to buy. Period.
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Exactly. Once someone starts paying money for coins, none of it makes much sense if you think about it too much.
I'm just glad more collectors prefer modern, lowball, and repro crap to real coins, or there would be much more competition for respectable material 😉
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So I wonder how many coins CAC owns, let’s say, under the grade of XF40? My guess would be a very small percentage compared to the coins they own above that grade.
DiggerJim
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You can repeat this as often as you like but his criteria is “A or B” for the grade, not whether he is willing to buy it. This has been answered by him directly.
He will buy it. He won't necessarily be the higher buyer
There are a great many coins which sticker, but which CAC would have no interest in buying. They simply don’t make markets or deal in all eligible coin types, dates and grades. And if their lack of interest in a given coin would cause them to offer less than multiple other buyers would, the exercise would be pointless.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Agreed. And JA has been clear on this point in at least one interview I saw.
It's all so complicated.
I love many VG coins, I think it's leftover from my younger collecting days. I don't love AG's and lower, but I can respect them. I'm torn about the AG 1799 cent I sold that ended up in a VG slab.
I sometimes wonder about my AG quarter...
Dexter 1804 dollar carries no sticker.
I have some nitpicker stickers.
And he will sometimes buy un-stickered coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Dear JM and Mark,
Thanks for clarifying my comment re JA willing to buy a coin if he stickers it. He's all about moving product quickly, and if he doesn't think he can quickly move a coin, you can get more for it elsewhere, if you make an effort to do so.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I understand the Everyman concept.
I, also, understand how CAC works and I 'get' it's business model, which is very successful, while being beneficial to the hobby.
BUT, I'll never understand the lowball thing.......other than people will collect ANYTHING and IF it's popular, then it will sell, regardless of anything else.
I suppose that we, as humans, are just competitive by nature.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I totally agree.
We definitely are a competitive bunch.
Sometimes it involves brains and then sometimes, it does not.
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Of course he would.
When I opened the link in the OP, I fully expected to see some low-grade widget... not a '93-S $1...
First of all... certification at any grade is warranted for this piece. It's that rare and heavily counterfeited in a series that is collected by a lot of numismatists. At one point, I collected Morgans by Date/MM... until I realized I'd never realistically complete it in grades that I found acceptable. But this is a personal decision.
Secondly, CAC designation, as others have already stated, only answers the question: "...is this coin good for the grade assigned...." Period. I agree with the CAC designation on this piece.
Lastly, people are different... viva la difference!
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