Increased prices at CAC along with a new $5 submission fee, effective 12/1/19.
ShadyDave
Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
Being a CAC collector member, I received this letter from them yesterday. Looks like their prices are going up 12/1/19 and a new $5 handling fee per submission will now be charged as well.
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Regular is still $15
If I had a high value coin I wouldn’t mind the fees mentioned at all.
I’m glad someone recommended sending my coins over when it was still $10
Thanks MF
"Because Confidence is Priceless"!
I've not gotten the letter yet. Hope they've not cancelled my membership since I've not submitted in a looooong time.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
@lcoopie Regular is currently $14.50, its going up to $15. Yes it is a minimal increase...just wanted to share the info.
Mine is coming today. I'm kind of addicted to "informed delivery". LOL
I'm guessing that CAC may see an uptick in submissions this month.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
It's about time they charged for EVERY exam. Think of the $$$$$ they "lost."
Additionally, if they would examine/sticker coins from the two other major services they possibly could have waited
to raise prices just now. If you think about it, there are several reasons not to include the "second-tier" services. Wink, wink,
Thanks @ShadyDave It's just not the same morning without at least ONE new thread with CAC embedded into a subject line.
I'll
try to remember to start a CAC discussion tomorrow.
This would explain the envelope that is arriving at the house today.
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Not really sure why anyone, not financially associated with a business, would even say something like "about time they charged for every exam"......
It won't really impact me as I don't have any new coins to submit (collector member here).
When I did submit the majority of mine, that $5 wouldn't have mattered to me as I sent in a good number, at a time, each time....and I usually did it with a couple of local folks (members here) and we would have split the price.
Still, I don't get the "it's about time" bit......just doesn't seem a nice/friendly/etc type of comment about what other people do with their money or what a company does with their money/resources/policies.....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Get over it. IMHO, which I am entitled to, a business - any business, should be in it to make the most profit for its owner and any shareholders while at the same time providing an excellent and best possible product and service! Obviously, not all businesses conform to my opinion.
So...I should prefer to be considered very GREEDY, and customer/product focused rather than nice/friendly/etc.
.
How can you be considered "customer focused" by trying to charge as much as possible to earn the most profit? Logically, inconsistent Insider5001346. I think JA is balancing the collector cost vs the dealer costs for his services.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I don't 'CAC', so no impact on me.
Dave
Silly question. Apples & oranges.
IMO, many would agree that the $1600/hr attorney who is admired for her record of success is better than the jail house educated convict! Although one is high-priced and the other is free, both of them are "customer focused." So you see silly, cost has NOTHING TO DO with how customers are treated!
Obviously, JA has decided that from now on it is worth $5 for CAC to examine each coin. I AGREE. As I posted, it is about time as CAC has proven itself (added value) to the "market." LOL. $5 is STILL TOO CHEAP! Those boys need a raise. NJ is an expensive place to live.
How do you arrive at “$5 for CAC to examine each coin”?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It's $15 to examine each coin with $5 to process the entire order.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It sounds as if someone called someone else “silly”, while at the same time, misunderstanding what CAC has been charging for their services.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Probably heard it from his $1600/hr accountant.
There's gotta be a way to make this about ebay...hmmm...
@MFeld asked: "How do you arrive at “$5 for CAC to examine each coin?"
OP: "Being a CAC collector member, I received this letter from them yesterday. Looks like their prices are going up 12/1/19 and a new $5 handling fee per submission will now be charged as well."
Oops! Well, I made a mistake (per submission). I still think they should charge $5 just to look at each coin. I'll bet they would get it after some resistance.
I heard that they looked at coins for FREE and only charged for the ones that "beaned."
PS I wish the disagree button was still around so I could up my total.
Per submission is not per coin...
...or is it...?
I believe that is a $5 handling fee per each submission invoice, in addition to the per-coin charge. See the fee schedule in the letter copied in the first post to this thread.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
No, I believe per submission is per submission form. Coins with different pricing tiers require separate submission forms, just like at PCGS. I believe that new $5 fee is per submission form, not $5 for the entire order if two or more forms are enclosed. Just my interpretation. Regardless, it's definitely not $5 per coin. As clearly noted above, for coins valued at $10,000 and less, the fee is $15 per coin, just a 50 cent increase from now. Collector members get credit/refund for that $15 per coin fee for any coin that does not sticker. The cost to reapply a sticker to the same cert number (i.e. Reconsideration upgrade with a "+" added to the prior whole grade number) remains unchanged at only $3.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Nope, let's carry the CAC discussion over to tomorrow as promised.
Insider2's ill-advised opinion not withstanding, Collectors sending coins that have enormous upgrade potential or have an actual value in excess of say, $100 that are deemed good candidates for getting "beaned" are what CAC is all about. Recently they printed a catalog which was shipped to all CAC Members which added enormous initial costs as well.
If you're trying to improve your grading ability, as I am, there's nothing more rewarding than 10 out of 10. When I miss I have an opportunity to try to learn why. That's valuable education that I'm honored to receive.
@Insider2 why do you think JA charges collectors less than what he could? Think before you respond.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
@Catbert asked: "Why do you think JA charges collectors less than what he could?"
Well one member already answered your question: "I think JA is balancing the collector cost vs the dealer costs for his services."
I'll add that perhaps it's because he is a great guy who does not need the money?
Pretty soon your stickers and slabs will be worth more than the coin. Crazy world. lol
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Was looking at an 1879 Morgan at GC Sunday. PCGS MS67, no cac sticker.
It realized $26.5k, which was a cool $25.5k over the same coin in MS66 which also ended that night. 66+ withought a sicker will bring about $3,000.
So if one was in the market for a coin in that lofty a grade, what did he buy for the equivalent of a modest Toyota.
Should one automatically assume that the coin has been seen by Mr. Albanese? Well logically of course as a coveted sticker could add ten or fifteen thousand dollars to the auction price of the coin.
So if the coin did not sticker, is the coin in JA's eyes really a $3000 66+ or maybe a $1000 66? Or perhaps it falls into that very tiny island of "C" level MS67, where perhaps the 25 to 1 grade to grade price jump is justified. Or maybe the buyer just cares about registry points on this pop 8 coin so the holder could be stuffed with cracker jack crumbs for all he cares, as long as the grade on the holder is verifiable.
Confusion never makes a market stronger and the opaqueness that cac has added has in my opinion contributed to the downward valuation spiral that the hobby has been experiencing.
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/661212/1879-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-67
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/752705/1879-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-66-Toned
You could remove CAC from the equation, entirely, and consider that each coin could (or already did) grade differently on another occasion. And/or that each coin could bring a significantly different price if re-offered for sale. Many of the coins with the largest percentage price declines over the last several years aren’t even eligible for review by CAC. CAC isn’t responsible for any of those market realities.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
But cac has become the dominant player in the classic coin arena. Place a gold bean on the 67 Morgan and you have a six figure coin. But the guessing game continues as we don't know which pieces have been evaluated by the kingmaker and which were merely never submitted. When the top tier full service grader can no longer stand alone as the determiner of value and the oft considered best eyes in the business refuses to slab coins or provide a comprehensive data base of submissions, we have quiet chaos which impedes confidence.
How is this any different than the rise of TPGS's period? It is not so long ago that coin auctions had raw coins and a few scattered slabs. You never knew what had been submitted or broken out or body-bagged. But it didn't end the coin market. It led to universal submission of expensive coins.
So, now you have CAC mixed with non-CAC. Big deal. Yes, BE SUSPICIOUS (if you must) of the non-CAC coin. But, so what? All it means is that someday soon, all major auctions will have material that has universally been to CAC like auctions now almost universally have slabbed coins.
Back in the day, people made money by buying raw and knowing they could get it into the right holder. Now, they can make money buying slabbed and knowing it will get a bean. Same game, different arena.
I stand by "Big Deal"
And if you’re looking at an NGC coin, which would sell for a much higher price in a PCGS holder, you don’t know whether it was already tried at PCGS for crossover. You seem to have tunnel vision.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Like I've said for a long long time, the thing CAC does is ....complicate....the hobby.
Complication never helps anything.
PCGS doesn't appear to offer value determination as one of its services.
Just sayin'.
My apologies for addressing the above reply, which is off topic, and while I don't want to steer this discussion off topic, I have to reply as I respectfully, but completely disagree. IMO, CAC is a positive asset for our hobby. I remember back in the 70's in my local coin club, while I was in favor of ANACS grading (no slabs, but certs), the majority said they were against it because it would complicate things. Then in 1986, with the advent of slabs, same thing - the majority in my local coin club were against it, saying it would complicate things. There's absolutely no doubt that TPG PCGS and NGC are positive assets for our hobby. Due to A, B, and C coins in grades, along with "stuff" done to surfaces, CAC is also a positive asset for our hobby. Here's the good news: for those that choose to not buy CAC, you'll save a lot of money, as the two tier market is driving those non-CAC coin prices down. Here's even better news: for those that choose not to buy CAC, you can send your non-CAC coins to CAC for just $15 a pop, and for all of those coins that succeed, you'll increase market value and ease of sale tremendously, for you and your heirs! You can't beat that!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Third party grading is complicated, too. Would you like to do away with it and go back to the "good old days"?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
And you seem to have a misaligned rear view mirror as we have both been banned here before, so discussing failings of the PCGS system regarding virtually risk free crossovers and upgrades puts us at odds with the hosts. For that reason it is better to keep the discussion on topic which is cac.
I don't pin the entire collapse of mid tier classic coins to cac, but as Topstuf noted above, complication never helps anything and that is true when dual third parties have to be employed to maximize return on a coin sale.
I also realize that a nearly free crapshoot will always be popular, so anteing up $15 or $50 for a chance at another thousand or ten thousand or hundred thousand dollars will continue to split the market, at least until the strategy no longer works...and when it doesn't, another gimmick will take its place.
That's a ludicrous question. There's a world of difference between grading, authenticating, and protectively sealing a coin and putting an additional step that has nothing to add to that except uncertainty.
Now if you're saying the first step is incompetent, then that's different.
Complicated, ain't it?
If you are going to show up at the dance, at least make sure you that have some shoes on.
https://www.pcgs.com/prices
I wasn't talking about failings of anything, but rather, the obvious realities of the marketplace.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Reality is a single man either blesses your coin or he doesn't. As long as the emperor is benevolent and makes us money we curtsy. There are serious collectors now buried financially in there sets. Too bad and caveat emptor and all of that but going forward how do you build confidence for those that want to put serious money into 150 year old coins? Maybe you don't.
Link to the "Services" page:
https://www.pcgs.com/services
Please point out where "value determination" is offered. Thank you.
edited to add...
It would appear you're confusing reporting market values with determining them.
The "reality of the marketplace" is that you pay higher premia for expensive cars.
ssovers and upgrades puts us at odds with the hosts. For that reason it is better to keep the discussion on topic which is cac.
Anyone buried in their set is not buried because of CAC. They may well be buried because they needed CAC to help them buy in the first place.
If you have a collection built of "C coins" that won't CAC, why is that CAC's fault? That's like blaming your oncologist for your cancer because he's the one who pointed out the problem.
Too bad and caveat emptor and all of that but going forward how do you build confidence for those that want to put serious money into 150 year old coins? Maybe you don't.
You could build confidence by telling those people to only buy CAC'ed coins.
Just saying...
And, again, you're myopic. The same "burial problem" was true of all the people in 1990 who were "buried" in raw sets they had collected. How many people discovered, thanks to TPGS's, that their prized S-VDB had been a counterfeit all along? How many people discovered that they had overpaid for raw coins that wouldn't straight grade? CAC is a second opinion in addition to the TPGS's 1st opinion. You may either value it or not, it's up to you. Because people DO value it, it adds market value. All this proves is that you don't agree with the market, not that the market is "wrong" or even has a problem.
Learning to grade is out of the question?
IMO, CAC does not complicate anything. Either do the TPGS. Any knowledgeable human DOES NOT NEED either one of them.
Those who lack knowledge should be very grateful both exist!
It's not even necessary. I let PCGS and CAC grade them for me. Then I bid with CONFIDENCE!
Are they buried because of CAC or are they buried because they bought marginal coins? Across many facets of society today quality finds ways of rising to the top, punishing the uninformed or naive or arrogant in the process.
Latin American Collection