I will not participate in a Heritage auction period.
I wouldn't have many of the best items in my collection if I adopted that attitude. I don't care if the seller or the auction house is The Great Satan - if the price is fair and it's something I want, I make the deal (even if I have to hold my nose sometimes).
@LindeDad said:
Remember the Potted Palm can always bid after you if it is a too good of a deal, and get it for less money.
Not referring to any one auction company, in particular, but I’ve been the victim of the potted plant, as well. Got run up REALLY good a time or two...It was almost as if someone KNEW. But Likely just auction fever, as auction items can sell for double or triple or even MORE of what they'd have brought, when in current dealer inventories. That has been my experience. A good auction can bring out the bidiots who'll pay almost ANYTHING. Just ask @BillJones lol. It can be like a raging inferno that fuels itself with adrenaline, testosterone, alcohol, ego or whatever. At least, with the dealers you know what you're paying and that’s it. So, unless it is something truly rare that can't be found anywhere else; I've been trying to work with trusted, honest, high-end dealers instead. JMHO.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
I do not see the big problem with tactics or strategy, best laid plans, or potted plants.
I have attended hundreds of auctions for everything from coins to livestock to households to art. Basically everything from antiques to xylophones.
It all comes down to logistics. You decide what you want to pay, That equals X. Subtract all taxes and fees from X. That is your top bid.
If you get the item for X you win
If you get the item for <X you win
If you get outbid you keep your money and win again.
Next Lot.
the only way you lose is to start whining if you get outbid.
@Moxie15 said:
I do not see the big problem with tactics or strategy, best laid plans, or potted plants.
I have attended hundreds of auctions for everything from coins to livestock to households to art. Basically everything from antiques to xylophones.
It all comes down to logistics. You decide what you want to pay, That equals X. Subtract all taxes and fees from X. That is your top bid.
If you get the item for X you win
If you get the item for <X you win
If you get outbid you keep your money and win again.
Next Lot.
the only way you lose is to start whining if you get outbid.
I agree. I'm not sure why this is constantly a source of debate here. It's almost like people either can't do the math or simply refuse to do the math.
If you go to a show in your own state, you are still paying sales tax and a 20% vig. It's just not spelled out separately. The dealer needs to eat and, unless he is a tax cheat, he has to charge the same sales tax as Heritage or eBay or whomever. He may have it rolled into the coin price, but it is still there. The comparison should always be total price to total price.
Speaking for myself, I frequently buy coins from Heritage, Stack's and GC which I then resell for a profit. That means that my total cost from those sites was less than someone was willing to pay directly to me. So, my customer could have bought the coin 20% cheaper from Heritage/Stack's/GC directly.
So, I am all in favor of you folks being "liberated" from the auction companies. I will gladly buy it all and then bring it to a show so you can buy it from me for 20% more.
@Moxie15 said:
I do not see the big problem with tactics or strategy, best laid plans, or potted plants.
I have attended hundreds of auctions for everything from coins to livestock to households to art. Basically everything from antiques to xylophones.
It all comes down to logistics. You decide what you want to pay, That equals X. Subtract all taxes and fees from X. That is your top bid.
If you get the item for X you win
If you get the item for <X you win
If you get outbid you keep your money and win again.
Next Lot.
the only way you lose is to start whining if you get outbid.
I agree. I'm not sure why this is constantly a source of debate here. It's almost like people either can't do the math or simply refuse to do the math.
If you go to a show in your own state, you are still paying sales tax and a 20% vig. It's just not spelled out separately. The dealer needs to eat and, unless he is a tax cheat, he has to charge the same sales tax as Heritage or eBay or whomever. He may have it rolled into the coin price, but it is still there. The comparison should always be total price to total price.
Speaking for myself, I frequently buy coins from Heritage, Stack's and GC which I then resell for a profit. That means that my total cost from those sites was less than someone was willing to pay directly to me. So, my customer could have bought the coin 20% cheaper from Heritage/Stack's/GC directly.
So, I am all in favor of you folks being "liberated" from the auction companies. I will gladly buy it all and then bring it to a show so you can buy it from me for 20% more.
Remind me to stay away from your table....
I’ve paid record prices for coins, at auction, so I doubt that you would ever be able to sell them for a profit.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
@Moxie15 said:
I do not see the big problem with tactics or strategy, best laid plans, or potted plants.
I have attended hundreds of auctions for everything from coins to livestock to households to art. Basically everything from antiques to xylophones.
It all comes down to logistics. You decide what you want to pay, That equals X. Subtract all taxes and fees from X. That is your top bid.
If you get the item for X you win
If you get the item for <X you win
If you get outbid you keep your money and win again.
Next Lot.
the only way you lose is to start whining if you get outbid.
I agree. I'm not sure why this is constantly a source of debate here. It's almost like people either can't do the math or simply refuse to do the math.
If you go to a show in your own state, you are still paying sales tax and a 20% vig. It's just not spelled out separately. The dealer needs to eat and, unless he is a tax cheat, he has to charge the same sales tax as Heritage or eBay or whomever. He may have it rolled into the coin price, but it is still there. The comparison should always be total price to total price.
Speaking for myself, I frequently buy coins from Heritage, Stack's and GC which I then resell for a profit. That means that my total cost from those sites was less than someone was willing to pay directly to me. So, my customer could have bought the coin 20% cheaper from Heritage/Stack's/GC directly.
So, I am all in favor of you folks being "liberated" from the auction companies. I will gladly buy it all and then bring it to a show so you can buy it from me for 20% more.
Remind me to stay away from your table....
I’ve paid record prices for coins, at auction, so I doubt that you would ever be able to sell them for a profit.
LOL. Well, I don't buy THOSE.
And I'm sure you're kidding. But my 20% markup still leaves the coins at 10% or less above Greysheet bid. I've bought coins at auction for as much as 30% below Greysheet bid and sold them BELOW bid for a profit.
And I'm not telling anyone to buy every coin in an auction. But the point is that there are deals to be had. There are plenty of coins that I wouldn't touch at auction because I don't want them and I couldn't flip them at that price. But the idea that you always pay more at auction than a show is, quite frankly, completely ignorant.
Just recently, wondercoin bought the 1975-S no S AT AUCTION and then turned around and sold it for $50k more in a private sale within a couple weeks. So even for "record prices for coins", there is the occasional record that lasts for less than a month.
"Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" is a warning against acting out of pique, or against pursuing revenge in a way that would damage oneself more than the object of one's anger.
@Moxie15 said:
I do not see the big problem with tactics or strategy, best laid plans, or potted plants.
I have attended hundreds of auctions for everything from coins to livestock to households to art. Basically everything from antiques to xylophones.
It all comes down to logistics. You decide what you want to pay, That equals X. Subtract all taxes and fees from X. That is your top bid.
If you get the item for X you win
If you get the item for <X you win
If you get outbid you keep your money and win again.
Next Lot.
the only way you lose is to start whining if you get outbid.
I agree. I'm not sure why this is constantly a source of debate here. It's almost like people either can't do the math or simply refuse to do the math.
If you go to a show in your own state, you are still paying sales tax and a 20% vig. It's just not spelled out separately. The dealer needs to eat and, unless he is a tax cheat, he has to charge the same sales tax as Heritage or eBay or whomever. He may have it rolled into the coin price, but it is still there. The comparison should always be total price to total price.
Speaking for myself, I frequently buy coins from Heritage, Stack's and GC which I then resell for a profit. That means that my total cost from those sites was less than someone was willing to pay directly to me. So, my customer could have bought the coin 20% cheaper from Heritage/Stack's/GC directly.
So, I am all in favor of you folks being "liberated" from the auction companies. I will gladly buy it all and then bring it to a show so you can buy it from me for 20% more.
Remind me to stay away from your table....
I’ve paid record prices for coins, at auction, so I doubt that you would ever be able to sell them for a profit.
LOL. Well, I don't buy THOSE.
And I'm sure you're kidding. But my 20% markup still leaves the coins at 10% or less above Greysheet bid. I've bought coins at auction for as much as 30% below Greysheet bid and sold them BELOW bid for a profit.
And I'm not telling anyone to buy every coin in an auction. But the point is that there are deals to be had. There are plenty of coins that I wouldn't touch at auction because I don't want them and I couldn't flip them at that price. But the idea that you always pay more at auction than a show is, quite frankly, completely ignorant.
Just recently, wondercoin bought the 1975-S no S AT AUCTION and then turned around and sold it for $50k more in a private sale within a couple weeks. So even for "record prices for coins", there is the occasional record that lasts for less than a month.
I don’t deal in generics like you do. The coins I have bought That I’m speaking of are of the highest quality and couldn’t be replaced easily, if it all. What’s ignorant is buying from someone like you, when you can turn around and buy them on GC or HA for less. I shouldn’t have said ‘record price’ but rather ‘near record prices’ for certain coins. I don’t regret it.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
@Moxie15 said:
I do not see the big problem with tactics or strategy, best laid plans, or potted plants.
I have attended hundreds of auctions for everything from coins to livestock to households to art. Basically everything from antiques to xylophones.
It all comes down to logistics. You decide what you want to pay, That equals X. Subtract all taxes and fees from X. That is your top bid.
If you get the item for X you win
If you get the item for <X you win
If you get outbid you keep your money and win again.
Next Lot.
the only way you lose is to start whining if you get outbid.
I agree. I'm not sure why this is constantly a source of debate here. It's almost like people either can't do the math or simply refuse to do the math.
If you go to a show in your own state, you are still paying sales tax and a 20% vig. It's just not spelled out separately. The dealer needs to eat and, unless he is a tax cheat, he has to charge the same sales tax as Heritage or eBay or whomever. He may have it rolled into the coin price, but it is still there. The comparison should always be total price to total price.
Speaking for myself, I frequently buy coins from Heritage, Stack's and GC which I then resell for a profit. That means that my total cost from those sites was less than someone was willing to pay directly to me. So, my customer could nd sold them BELOW bid for a profit.
And I'm not telling anyone to buy every coin in an auction. But the point is that there are deals to be had. There are plenty of coins that I wouldn't touch at auction because I don't want them and I couldn't flip them at that price. But the idea that you always pay more at auction than a show is, quite frankly, completely ignorant.
Just recently, wondercoin bought the 1975-S no S AT AUCTION and then turned around and sold it for $50k more in a private sale within a couple weeks. So even for "record prices for coins", there is the occasional record that lasts for less than a month.
I don’t deal in generics like you do. The coins I have bought That I’m speaking of are of the highest quality and couldn’t be replaced easily, if it all. What’s ignorant is buying from someone like you, when you can turn around and buy them on GC or HA for less. I shouldn’t have said ‘record price’ but rather ‘near record prices’ for certain coins. I don’t regret it.
Then we agree. It is ignorant to avoid auctions. So why are you arguing with me?
And I assume by "someone like you", you mean all coin dealers. I might argue that it is equally ignorant to refuse to buy from coin dealers. Why would you avoid buying a coin from me if it is cheaper than the one currently up for auction? It works both ways, you know.
@Moxie15 said:
I do not see the big problem with tactics or strategy, best laid plans, or potted plants.
I have attended hundreds of auctions for everything from coins to livestock to households to art. Basically everything from antiques to xylophones.
It all comes down to logistics. You decide what you want to pay, That equals X. Subtract all taxes and fees from X. That is your top bid.
If you get the item for X you win
If you get the item for <X you win
If you get outbid you keep your money and win again.
Next Lot.
the only way you lose is to start whining if you get outbid.
I agree. I'm not sure why this is constantly a source of debate here. It's almost like people either can't do the math or simply refuse to do the math.
If you go to a show in your own state, you are still paying sales tax and a 20% vig. It's just not spelled out separately. The dealer needs to eat and, unless he is a tax cheat, he has to charge the same sales tax as Heritage or eBay or whomever. He may have it rolled into the coin price, but it is still there. The comparison should always be total price to total price.
Speaking for myself, I frequently buy coins from Heritage, Stack's and GC which I then resell for a profit. That means that my total cost from those sites was less than someone was willing to pay directly to me. So, my customer could nd sold them BELOW bid for a profit.
And I'm not telling anyone to buy every coin in an auction. But the point is that there are deals to be had. There are plenty of coins that I wouldn't touch at auction because I don't want them and I couldn't flip them at that price. But the idea that you always pay more at auction than a show is, quite frankly, completely ignorant.
Just recently, wondercoin bought the 1975-S no S AT AUCTION and then turned around and sold it for $50k more in a private sale within a couple weeks. So even for "record prices for coins", there is the occasional record that lasts for less than a month.
I don’t deal in generics like you do. The coins I have bought That I’m speaking of are of the highest quality and couldn’t be replaced easily, if it all. What’s ignorant is buying from someone like you, when you can turn around and buy them on GC or HA for less. I shouldn’t have said ‘record price’ but rather ‘near record prices’ for certain coins. I don’t regret it.
Then we agree. It is ignorant to avoid auctions. So why are you arguing with me?
And I assume by "someone like you", you mean all coin dealers. I might argue that it is equally ignorant to refuse to buy from coin dealers. Why would you avoid buying a coin from me if it is cheaper than the one currently up for auction? It works both ways, you know.
LOL yes we agree. If you look at my earlier post; I stated it is better to buy from a dealer, when you can. Just don’t be afraid to pay up when the time is right.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
@Walkerfan said:
The coins I have bought That I’m speaking of are of the highest quality and couldn’t be replaced easily, if it all.
@Walkerfan said:
What’s ignorant is buying from someone like you, when you can turn around and buy them on GC or HA for less.
These two comments don't seem to be in agreement with each other. If the coins in question couldn’t be replaced easily (if it all), then supposing jmlanzaf has one for sale, how likely would it be possible to go to GC or HA to find a comparable coin?
@Moxie15 said:
I do not see the big problem with tactics or strategy, best laid plans, or potted plants.
I have attended hundreds of auctions for everything from coins to livestock to households to art. Basically everything from antiques to xylophones.
It all comes down to logistics. You decide what you want to pay, That equals X. Subtract all taxes and fees from X. That is your top bid.
If you get the item for X you win
I don’t deal in generics like you do. The coins I have bought That I’m speaking of are of the highest quality and couldn’t be replaced easily, if it all. What’s ignorant is buying from someone like you, when you can turn around and buy them on GC or HA for less. I shouldn’t have said ‘record price’ but rather ‘near record prices’ for certain coins. I don’t regret it.
Then we agree. It is ignorant to avoid auctions. So why are you arguing with me?
And I assume by "someone like you", you mean all coin dealers. I might argue that it is equally ignorant to refuse to buy from coin dealers. Why would you avoid buying a coin from me if it is cheaper than the one currently up for auction? It works both ways, you know.
LOL yes we agree. If you look at my earlier post; I stated it is better to buy from a dealer, when you can. Just don’t be afraid to pay up when the time is right.
As the saying goes: "It's all about the Benjamins"
And, frankly, throw out the price guide if you really want it. From a collector standpoint, it's about having fun not making money.
[Hint: The things you REALLY don't want to buy from me are the coins I like and have overpriced. LOL. If they sell, I celebrate the cash. If they don't, I"m happy to look at them for a while.]
@Walkerfan said:
The coins I have bought That I’m speaking of are of the highest quality and couldn’t be replaced easily, if it all.
@Walkerfan said:
What’s ignorant is buying from someone like you, when you can turn around and buy them on GC or HA for less.
These two comments don't seem to be in agreement with each other. If the coins in question couldn’t be replaced easily (if it all), then supposing jmlanzaf has one for sale, how likely would it be possible to go to GC or HA to find a comparable coin?
It all depends on what you’re looking for. Some are easily replaceable and some aren’t. I wouldn’t buy a generic from a dealer that I could purchase cheaper online in an auction. If it’s something truly rare; I don’t care what source I purchase it from. I don’t know how else to explain it to you ....
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
@Walkerfan said:
I wouldn’t buy a generic from a dealer that I could purchase cheaper online in an auction.
Ok- I'm confused. Earlier you said: "I don’t deal in generics like you do."
And now, you're talking about buying generics.
I think he's speaking more globally.
@Walkerfan has the right attitude overall. He just wanted to play with me. LOL. He buys what he wants wherever he can find it.
Frankly, I'm more confused by the combination of the anti-dealer threads (they're all crooks) and the anti-auction threads (also crooks?), maybe coupled with the anti-eBay threads (also all crooks?) Those people are really out of places to go. LOL
Good luck if the coin market is all amateurs selling to each other. Because there are NO crooks in the public. Dealers and auction houses come from another planet. LOL. And I don't think some of the Negative Nellies here realize the necessity of having market makers.
There are crooked dealers and crooked auction houses (none of the ones mentioned here, by the way) and crooked John Q. Publics. There are also knowledgeable, trustworthy dealers. Yes, really. There are also reputable auction houses and even trustworthy Jane Q. Does. People deal too much in absolutes.
@jmlanzaf said:
There are crooked dealers and crooked auction houses (none of the ones mentioned here, by the way) and crooked John Q. Publics. There are also knowledgeable, trustworthy dealers. Yes, really. There are also reputable auction houses and even trustworthy Jane Q. Does. People deal too much in absolutes.
I have a problem with the word "should". I was impacted many years ago by a sister who said : " Never should on yourself ", after using the phrase , "I should...".
So now, when I want is when I do. And that's how it is ever since my sister said that to me.
@MrEureka said:
Proxy bidding is usually the best strategy.
As for the ways a proxy bid might be abused, consider that Heritage has a lot of employees and they won’t necessarily be there and keep company secrets forever. If I were running the company, my coin buyers on staff would not have access to secret bids. Too much long term downside risk.
With perhaps the unlikely hope of getting back to the OP subject , I have never proxy bid, only pre auction online, and rarely in person live bid, I set off to investigate proxy bidding. Without digging too hard, the only thing I found about it on the Heritage site was the directions for doing it online with Heritage Live.
I gather that the principle is to give a Heritage employee your bids before the auction, the Heritage rep will then execute them for you. The difference being between pre online and proxy bidding is that a pre auction online bid is that your bid is made public before the auction for online pre, and is not for proxy.
Is that correct? Heritage Live online now the way to enter proxy bids, or do you sometimes do it via phone, email, etc?
I won in my first auction last night. I was on line, and was bidding on three coins. I saw one went above my highest bid, so I bid and it ended with me ahead. On another I was high bidder, and the auction ended below my highest bid. the third I tried to up my bid, but it said I was outbid and I let it go. 30 minutes after the close of bidding it looked like I won two lots. This morning, I received an invoice for one coin - where I was highest bidder but the coin ended at a lower price. I was charged my highest bid. On the second coin, mysteriously I was outbid.... I done with Heritage...
I won in my first auction last night. I was on line, and was bidding on three coins. I saw one went above my highest bid, so I bid and it ended with me ahead. On another I was high bidder, and the auction ended below my highest bid. the third I tried to up my bid, but it said I was outbid and I let it go. 30 minutes after the close of bidding it looked like I won two lots. This morning, I received an invoice for one coin - where I was highest bidder but the coin ended at a lower price. I was charged my highest bid. On the second coin, mysteriously I was outbid.... I done with Heritage...
Please email me (Mfeld@ha.com) your client number or contact information. When I’m back in the office next week, I’ll be happy to find out what happened and let you know.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@500Bay said:
I won in my first auction last night. I was on line, and was bidding on three coins. I saw one went above my highest bid, so I bid and it ended with me ahead. On another I was high bidder, and the auction ended below my highest bid. the third I tried to up my bid, but it said I was outbid and I let it go. 30 minutes after the close of bidding it looked like I won two lots. This morning, I received an invoice for one coin - where I was highest bidder but the coin ended at a lower price. I was charged my highest bid. On the second coin, mysteriously I was outbid.... I done with Heritage...
I'm highly skeptical. I've bid on hundreds of coins there with no difficulty.
Probably a glitch. I won a coin once at Heritage without ever placing a bid. A simple email corrected the situation and I was not obligated to purchase it.
That was weird, but it was on their end.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I forget the reason, but people have discussed that issue above before and there is a logical way it can happen, I just don't remember it.
On the crooked auction front, I had a friend send coins to a local country auction and the auctioneer "fast-hammered" everything to 4 of his cronies in the audience for less than 1/4 of their value. When people complained he said "well bid faster" but every decent coin went to the 4 working with the auctioneer.
that may have resulted in an evening visit from the bad karma squad for that auctioneer and his posse and he would have deserved the attitude adjustment he received me thinks.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
@Zoins said:
The main frustrating thing from me regarding Heritage is that typically there are only a few lots I'm interested in and it's impossible to know exactly when they will close so I'm often waiting through many lots I'm not interested in. With eBay, I know exactly when the items I'm interested in will close.
I believe they have a feature that will text you I believe 10-15 lots before an item you’re interested in
there is only one way that makes sense to me: I place a bid when I first see an item that interests me, then I follow live and bid, stopping when it gets too high for my estimate.
an aside to anyone/everyone --- you realize you don't "up" a bid, you raise a bid. language counts.
For Heritage: I just put in my max bid adjusted downward for juice to get coin at what I would offer from my table off bourse like 85pct CDN bid. If win great otherwise no worry. I have more than enough material fill my cases at shows lol.
"Please email me (Mfeld@ha.com) your client number or contact information. When I’m back in the office next week, I’ll be happy to find out what happened and let you know."
The main frustrating thing from me regarding Heritage is that typically there are only a few lots I'm interested in and it's impossible to know exactly when they will close so I'm often waiting through many lots I'm not interested in. With eBay, I know exactly when the items I'm interested in will close.
So, just call them up and arrange for phone bidding. That way, a Heritage rep will call you about 10 lots before the one you're interested in comes up and you don't have to spend time following the auction beforehand. Also, the big advantage of phone bidding is that the auctioneer doesn't close the lot until the phone bidders are done.
@pcgs69 said:
Heritage is a scam. If your bid is a couple increments above current bid they’ll just mysteriously up the bid to your bid (maybe not all the time).
Oh brother. My 2017 reply still stands. Can this happen? I suppose. But there was one person who kept bemoaning that Heritage and/or dealers were 'running up' prices on him. I got tired of it and broke my privacy to let him know that on several of the lots he was complaining about it was ME. I was the direct underbidder on several of his coins. He was ascribing a nefarious activity to Heritage when it had nothing to do with them. It was irritating.
Heritage requires significantly high line of credit. My PayPal account wasn't good enough for them so I will stick with Ian's house. Great Collections has done some good things for me and more recently has offered some really nice material.
@pcgs69 said:
Heritage is a scam. If your bid is a couple increments above current bid they’ll just mysteriously up the bid to your bid (maybe not all the time).
Oh brother. My 2017 reply still stands. Can this happen? I suppose. But there was one person who kept bemoaning that Heritage and/or dealers were 'running up' prices on him. I got tired of it and broke my privacy to let him know that on several of the lots he was complaining about it was ME. I was the direct underbidder on several of his coins. He was ascribing a nefarious activity to Heritage when it had nothing to do with them. It was irritating.
When I first starting using Heritage, the bid increments took some getting used to. It's easy for someone to bid right up to you bid due to the increasingly larger increments as you go up. On eBay you can bid any value so it almost never happens that the first underbidder and the winner have the same bid, though it has happened to me.
I like to bid live unless there is a fairly established price for an item.
From my experience, bidding early drives up the final price. I think the added bidders/bids indicate it's a desired item.
When an item is a, for example, $2000 coin, with a pretty defined price, it's best to get that bid in first. The increments get to be high to stretch that extra bid above the established price.
@fiftysevener said:
Heritage requires significantly high line of credit. My PayPal account wasn't good enough for them so I will stick with Ian's house. Great Collections has done some good things for me and more recently has offered some really nice material.
Please clarify. Are you saying that you needed to establish some sort of credit to bid, or that the coins are beyond your ability to finance them?
@fiftysevener said:
Heritage requires significantly high line of credit. My PayPal account wasn't good enough for them so I will stick with Ian's house. Great Collections has done some good things for me and more recently has offered some really nice material.
Please clarify. Are you saying that you needed to establish some sort of credit to bid, or that the coins are beyond your ability to finance them?
I was told that they need my credit card on file and that just PayPal was not enough. I guess I'm glad I didn't do it considering the security breach they once had even though they claim no data was exposed.
Comments
I bid in last 60 seconds in these situations. A mid range nuke bid sometimes too.
I will not participate in a Heritage auction period.
I will not participate in a Heritage auction period.
I wouldn't have many of the best items in my collection if I adopted that attitude. I don't care if the seller or the auction house is The Great Satan - if the price is fair and it's something I want, I make the deal (even if I have to hold my nose sometimes).
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
So wise grasshopper. Self imposed makes it liberating
Not referring to any one auction company, in particular, but I’ve been the victim of the potted plant, as well. Got run up REALLY good a time or two...It was almost as if someone KNEW. But Likely just auction fever, as auction items can sell for double or triple or even MORE of what they'd have brought, when in current dealer inventories. That has been my experience. A good auction can bring out the bidiots who'll pay almost ANYTHING. Just ask @BillJones lol. It can be like a raging inferno that fuels itself with adrenaline, testosterone, alcohol, ego or whatever. At least, with the dealers you know what you're paying and that’s it. So, unless it is something truly rare that can't be found anywhere else; I've been trying to work with trusted, honest, high-end dealers instead. JMHO.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I really don't understand people.
You can do what you want. It's your money.
If you want to boycott a company that uses slave labor or supports an evil warlord. I get it.
If you just want to pay a little more to support the little guy. I get it.
But i'm not sure why paying the same, or less, at a large auction company is to be avoided because it is "liberating"
I do not see the big problem with tactics or strategy, best laid plans, or potted plants.
I have attended hundreds of auctions for everything from coins to livestock to households to art. Basically everything from antiques to xylophones.
It all comes down to logistics. You decide what you want to pay, That equals X. Subtract all taxes and fees from X. That is your top bid.
If you get the item for X you win
If you get the item for <X you win
If you get outbid you keep your money and win again.
Next Lot.
the only way you lose is to start whining if you get outbid.
I agree. I'm not sure why this is constantly a source of debate here. It's almost like people either can't do the math or simply refuse to do the math.
If you go to a show in your own state, you are still paying sales tax and a 20% vig. It's just not spelled out separately. The dealer needs to eat and, unless he is a tax cheat, he has to charge the same sales tax as Heritage or eBay or whomever. He may have it rolled into the coin price, but it is still there. The comparison should always be total price to total price.
Speaking for myself, I frequently buy coins from Heritage, Stack's and GC which I then resell for a profit. That means that my total cost from those sites was less than someone was willing to pay directly to me. So, my customer could have bought the coin 20% cheaper from Heritage/Stack's/GC directly.
So, I am all in favor of you folks being "liberated" from the auction companies. I will gladly buy it all and then bring it to a show so you can buy it from me for 20% more.
Remind me to stay away from your table....
I’ve paid record prices for coins, at auction, so I doubt that you would ever be able to sell them for a profit.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
LOL. Well, I don't buy THOSE.
And I'm sure you're kidding. But my 20% markup still leaves the coins at 10% or less above Greysheet bid. I've bought coins at auction for as much as 30% below Greysheet bid and sold them BELOW bid for a profit.
And I'm not telling anyone to buy every coin in an auction. But the point is that there are deals to be had. There are plenty of coins that I wouldn't touch at auction because I don't want them and I couldn't flip them at that price. But the idea that you always pay more at auction than a show is, quite frankly, completely ignorant.
Just recently, wondercoin bought the 1975-S no S AT AUCTION and then turned around and sold it for $50k more in a private sale within a couple weeks. So even for "record prices for coins", there is the occasional record that lasts for less than a month.
"Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" is a warning against acting out of pique, or against pursuing revenge in a way that would damage oneself more than the object of one's anger.
I don’t deal in generics like you do. The coins I have bought That I’m speaking of are of the highest quality and couldn’t be replaced easily, if it all. What’s ignorant is buying from someone like you, when you can turn around and buy them on GC or HA for less. I shouldn’t have said ‘record price’ but rather ‘near record prices’ for certain coins. I don’t regret it.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Then we agree. It is ignorant to avoid auctions. So why are you arguing with me?
And I assume by "someone like you", you mean all coin dealers. I might argue that it is equally ignorant to refuse to buy from coin dealers. Why would you avoid buying a coin from me if it is cheaper than the one currently up for auction? It works both ways, you know.
LOL yes we agree. If you look at my earlier post; I stated it is better to buy from a dealer, when you can. Just don’t be afraid to pay up when the time is right.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
These two comments don't seem to be in agreement with each other. If the coins in question couldn’t be replaced easily (if it all), then supposing jmlanzaf has one for sale, how likely would it be possible to go to GC or HA to find a comparable coin?
As the saying goes: "It's all about the Benjamins"
And, frankly, throw out the price guide if you really want it. From a collector standpoint, it's about having fun not making money.
[Hint: The things you REALLY don't want to buy from me are the coins I like and have overpriced. LOL. If they sell, I celebrate the cash. If they don't, I"m happy to look at them for a while.]
It all depends on what you’re looking for. Some are easily replaceable and some aren’t. I wouldn’t buy a generic from a dealer that I could purchase cheaper online in an auction. If it’s something truly rare; I don’t care what source I purchase it from. I don’t know how else to explain it to you ....
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Ok- I'm confused. Earlier you said: "I don’t deal in generics like you do."
And now, you're talking about buying generics.
I think he's speaking more globally.
@Walkerfan has the right attitude overall. He just wanted to play with me. LOL. He buys what he wants wherever he can find it.
Frankly, I'm more confused by the combination of the anti-dealer threads (they're all crooks) and the anti-auction threads (also crooks?), maybe coupled with the anti-eBay threads (also all crooks?) Those people are really out of places to go. LOL
Good luck if the coin market is all amateurs selling to each other. Because there are NO crooks in the public. Dealers and auction houses come from another planet. LOL. And I don't think some of the Negative Nellies here realize the necessity of having market makers.
There are crooked dealers and crooked auction houses (none of the ones mentioned here, by the way) and crooked John Q. Publics. There are also knowledgeable, trustworthy dealers. Yes, really. There are also reputable auction houses and even trustworthy Jane Q. Does. People deal too much in absolutes.
Ya think?
Nonsense.
But thanks for probably getting this thread deleted
I have a problem with the word "should". I was impacted many years ago by a sister who said : " Never should on yourself ", after using the phrase , "I should...".
So now, when I want is when I do. And that's how it is ever since my sister said that to me.
With perhaps the unlikely hope of getting back to the OP subject
, I have never proxy bid, only pre auction online, and rarely in person live bid, I set off to investigate proxy bidding. Without digging too hard, the only thing I found about it on the Heritage site was the directions for doing it online with Heritage Live.
I gather that the principle is to give a Heritage employee your bids before the auction, the Heritage rep will then execute them for you. The difference being between pre online and proxy bidding is that a pre auction online bid is that your bid is made public before the auction for online pre, and is not for proxy.
Is that correct? Heritage Live online now the way to enter proxy bids, or do you sometimes do it via phone, email, etc?
I won in my first auction last night. I was on line, and was bidding on three coins. I saw one went above my highest bid, so I bid and it ended with me ahead. On another I was high bidder, and the auction ended below my highest bid. the third I tried to up my bid, but it said I was outbid and I let it go. 30 minutes after the close of bidding it looked like I won two lots. This morning, I received an invoice for one coin - where I was highest bidder but the coin ended at a lower price. I was charged my highest bid. On the second coin, mysteriously I was outbid.... I done with Heritage...
..> @500Bay said:
Please email me (Mfeld@ha.com) your client number or contact information. When I’m back in the office next week, I’ll be happy to find out what happened and let you know.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm highly skeptical. I've bid on hundreds of coins there with no difficulty.
@MFeld
Probably a glitch. I won a coin once at Heritage without ever placing a bid. A simple email corrected the situation and I was not obligated to purchase it.
That was weird, but it was on their end.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I forget the reason, but people have discussed that issue above before and there is a logical way it can happen, I just don't remember it.
On the crooked auction front, I had a friend send coins to a local country auction and the auctioneer "fast-hammered" everything to 4 of his cronies in the audience for less than 1/4 of their value. When people complained he said "well bid faster" but every decent coin went to the 4 working with the auctioneer.
that may have resulted in an evening visit from the bad karma squad for that auctioneer and his posse and he would have deserved the attitude adjustment he received me thinks.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I believe they have a feature that will text you I believe 10-15 lots before an item you’re interested in
there is only one way that makes sense to me: I place a bid when I first see an item that interests me, then I follow live and bid, stopping when it gets too high for my estimate.
an aside to anyone/everyone --- you realize you don't "up" a bid, you raise a bid.
language counts.
I'm not telling when I should bid in any Heritage auction, but this is a good question.
I understand the skepticism - but I watched it unfold before my eyes.
For Heritage: I just put in my max bid adjusted downward for juice to get coin at what I would offer from my table off bourse like 85pct CDN bid. If win great otherwise no worry. I have more than enough material fill my cases at shows lol.
"Please email me (Mfeld@ha.com) your client number or contact information. When I’m back in the office next week, I’ll be happy to find out what happened and let you know."
I just did -thanks!
The main frustrating thing from me regarding Heritage is that typically there are only a few lots I'm interested in and it's impossible to know exactly when they will close so I'm often waiting through many lots I'm not interested in. With eBay, I know exactly when the items I'm interested in will close.
So, just call them up and arrange for phone bidding. That way, a Heritage rep will call you about 10 lots before the one you're interested in comes up and you don't have to spend time following the auction beforehand. Also, the big advantage of phone bidding is that the auctioneer doesn't close the lot until the phone bidders are done.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
Oh brother. My 2017 reply still stands. Can this happen? I suppose. But there was one person who kept bemoaning that Heritage and/or dealers were 'running up' prices on him. I got tired of it and broke my privacy to let him know that on several of the lots he was complaining about it was ME. I was the direct underbidder on several of his coins. He was ascribing a nefarious activity to Heritage when it had nothing to do with them. It was irritating.
Just an FYI: Mark Feld got back to me with an explanation of what happened with my bids. Thanks!
The forum if a better place when Mark Feld is on it!
Heritage requires significantly high line of credit. My PayPal account wasn't good enough for them so I will stick with Ian's house. Great Collections has done some good things for me and more recently has offered some really nice material.
When I first starting using Heritage, the bid increments took some getting used to. It's easy for someone to bid right up to you bid due to the increasingly larger increments as you go up. On eBay you can bid any value so it almost never happens that the first underbidder and the winner have the same bid, though it has happened to me.
I like to bid live unless there is a fairly established price for an item.
From my experience, bidding early drives up the final price. I think the added bidders/bids indicate it's a desired item.
When an item is a, for example, $2000 coin, with a pretty defined price, it's best to get that bid in first. The increments get to be high to stretch that extra bid above the established price.
Please clarify. Are you saying that you needed to establish some sort of credit to bid, or that the coins are beyond your ability to finance them?
I bid occasionally. Most things get jacked up to almost retail during the pre-bidding, so not much motivation to bother with it.
Live bid if you have a good connection and split bid unless you are going to nuke it then I use proxy bid
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
I simply take my offer times a factor reduce it to what it wb without the juice like an offer of 85 pct bid I would make from my table at a show.
I was told that they need my credit card on file and that just PayPal was not enough. I guess I'm glad I didn't do it considering the security breach they once had even though they claim no data was exposed.